abm1213

I am new to the velodrome part of cycling. As I get to see more and more of the operations of my local track, I wonder if access to the track is too conservatively managed.

For comparison, in my community we constructed a skate park which, for those of you that don't know, is a very large cement area that has deep cement swimming pool bowls for the skaters and skateboarders (bicyclists are not allowed but Club BMX is ALWAYS there anyway). There are cement ramps and steel rails to hop up on - all kinds of ways to have a little dangerous looking fun - you should see some of the flips and gainers with twists that land and the ones that don't. But to adults it looks really really dangerous and like a big fat nightmare lawsuit just waiting to bankrupt the city. But... there are no supervisors. There are no locks or gates or other stuff to encumber the kids and adults who happen to want to use this facility and it is very, very popular. So far as I know, the injuries have been mild compared to the long-silenced, hysterical ravings of the community opposition. The users are having a lot of fun and don't have to pay money, install pedals, rent special gear, impress adults as being "responsible", get a license, show up at the right time or go home, get off the track when the "advanced" users reserve the track, blah blah blah you get the picture - there are very few hurdles to jump to qualify to use the park because there are none. I can say the same for the local high school and college tracks - I can go over and run on the field or on the track any time that school is not in session. Really.

The local velodrome happens to be a public outdoor facility but it is locked and gated and regulated in every way imaginable in the name of safety. There is NO free access to the drome - ever. It is never just open to the public. Access to the park is controlled by a board of directors and supervisors who, often times, are simply out there doing their "advanced" routines which, by definition, excludes novices because it is too "dangerous" for them to be around. Nobody can just go out and do laps or get the feel of the track or even go down and sit in the bleachers. On the other hand, whole parts of weeks go by when not a single person is allowed on the track - the track is a ghost facility just sitting there baking in the sun depreciating. You could take time-lapse aerial photos and not see a single bike on the track for days. The promoters of the sport are heard to mutter that the "youth" interest in cycling is way down from last year - oh, what, oh what are we doing wrong? But no wonder, there are so many other ways to recreationally endanger yourself for fun that don't require the scrutiny of adults and are open for everybody to use whenever they want to use it.

My point is that people like slightly dangerous and risky recreations and when a particular sport becomes too bureaucratized and regulated in an effort to remove the danger and risk those who might have been interested go somewhere else and in this case the kids are NOT going to the track.

I might be playing devil here, but are these regulations typical of most facilities throughout the world? Or is this a purely puritanical USA thing?

ewwhite

Which US track are you referring to?

lotek 

I'm a track newbie, just took developmental class at the Frisco Superdrome.
In contrast to what you describe, right after our class there was a youth developmental class starting, taught by a US olympic athelete (competed with and
against Marty Nothstein). Beginner classes are held twice a month and it sounds like
open riding is available alot of the time. The only times the track truely closes down
is due to weather (rain, wind etc.), and winter for repairs.
I've heard that Trexlertown is similiar (if not more advanced) in terms of developmental
classes, open participation etc.

Wonder if the board at your track needs to speak to the folks at a more
active track (in terms of community) to see what they do to attract more
participation and how they handle liablitity.

Marty

ZappCatt

At Hellyer, the track is closed unless there is an official event going on.
These events range from WEEKLY Saturday morning beginers sessions(3 are required before you can race).
There are also several juniors sessions, and advanced training sessions.

During Racing season, races are held Wednesday, Thursday and Friday nights. Several Sprint tournaments are held on Sundays, along with District Championships.

I think one point you are missing when you compare a track which is managed as a place to hold competitions, and a skate park, which was built to keep kids out of trouble, more than to get them involved in competition.

There are several tracks around which seem to be run how you wish your track was run. I believe the velodromes outside Chicago and NYC are open all the time..some of the guys in the SS/FG forum make trips up there to blast around the track..

abm1213

I think you are missing my point. If you answer this question I think you will understand: When your track is not being used for competetion, or the few training sessions during the week, what is it being used for?

lotek 

abm1213,

what track?

ultraman6970

I think the answer is "for nothing". I would say that is a common decease in every place on this planet. U have to understand aswell that a track generate expenses, basically is an stadium that usually do not have any other income than tickets sold in racing days. Turn on lights at night is a hudge ammount of money aswell. The question then is who is going to pay for those expenses when the track is being used for anybody? I have seen this phonomena in 3 continents already, and the problem is always the same. A lot of time the track is basically closed. I understand your point but the answer its MONEY. In the case of Brian Piccolo track over there in miami, those guys have a freaking park with tons of different activities, I think the park should get some money from the state but looks more as an private park becuase u have to pay to use any installation there.

I dont know if the tracks in california open for general public or something. In the case of the wooden track over there in London canada, they open only the scheduled days because of a COSTS problem, if they open any other time or day they should be obligated to pay to a person to stay the whole day there to open and close the installations and the truth is that they barely generate the money to pay the rent of the building and other expenses.

Well i think this answer your question...

humancongereel

depends on your track. the velodrome here is one you can stop by anytime.

ultraman6970

Lucky u, I dont even have a dog track in here..

abm1213

My interest in this question is from the point of view of a newcomer and, therefore, I am not ready to particularly identify or confront the status quo at a particular track. I am just trying to get an international perspective on the range of freedom to access publicly owned tracks. Hopefully, some of the members of the various track venue management entities will be stand-up types but silence from those who remain sitting is very expressive, as we all know.

bitingduck

A better place to ask your question is probably over at Fixedgearfever.com. A lot of the management of various local tracks and development/racing programs do read the forums there, and some post as well.

I'm surprised your track seems so exclusive - most of them are trying as hard as possible to get bodies on the track to justify their existence. A lot of the parks people see soccer fields as less trouble and more profitable than velodromes, and would be more than happy to level the tracks and plant grass.

Velodromes can also be expensive to maintain and run. Wood tracks require a lot of maintenance and are unlikely to be left unlocked and have people doing things on them that will bang up the surface. Concrete tracks take less maintenance, but the overall facility may be expensive to maintain.

abm1213

"What hump?"

Quote from the character Igor in Young Frankenstein as played by Marty Feldman.

lotek 

I knew that

abm1213

You are blessed.

stendhalian

As a skater of 21 years (not my age, but how long i've been skating) who is interested in the velodrome...i heartily agree with the OP. i was excited about trying my track bike on the velodrome but was really surprised when i researched all of the rules and beauracracy one had to wade through to actually get out and ride. It's really put me off completely and I think I'll keep my breakless riding in the streets. And that comment about keeping kids out of trouble, Zapcat, you obviously don't skateboard, that's just a BS line that skaters feed their parents and the city in order to actually get the thing built. Skateboarding is a legitimate sport. The appeal to youth is in the freedom that surrounds it.

No entrance fees, no "lessons", just alot of trust, enthusiasm and general common sense.

I understand there is such a thing as track etiquette and there is real danger present at the speeds involved. At the skatepark there is more of a self-regulating vibe, there are always older skaters willing to give advice to younger or novice riders. The best part is, everyone rides together. 10 year old beginners taking runs right after seasoned pros. And everyone cheers eachother on. The novices know when to stay away, once the session gets heated, just like at the track where you normally have two separate groups going at different intervals round the course.

There is nothing more frustrating than skating a park at night under illumination from street lamps from an adjacent street, right next to an empty baseball diamond or soccer field that is lit up like the fourth of july. It's the same old story.

244dewayne

I not sure where the original poster is located but here in California operators of public skateparks cannot be sued when a skater get injured. The State rewrote the laws regarding liability and skaters. Bicycles do not fall under this exception. This is one reason some cities in California still refuse to allow bicycles in skateparks. In our city our skatepark has fences, locks, a great light system and regulated hours of operation. Bicycles are allowed during certain sessions and must meet certain size and safety standards. Safety equipment (helments and pads) must be used. If I showed up at the local skatepark with my track bike they would not let me in so I have to ride my 20 inch bike. The track that I ride (Home Depot, Carson) charges to ride and requires certification for track use. In my opinion this is a great idea. I sure not everybody would agree with me but I wouldn''t expect that.

ZappCatt

So are you saying that every public facility should be open for your unsupervised use whenever you want to go play?

The local swimming pool happens to be a public outdoor facility but it is locked and gated and regulated in every way imaginable in the name of safety. There is NO free access to the water - ever. It is never just open to the public(to go in and do their own thing without instruction/supervision).
Nobody can just go out and do laps or get the feel of the lanes or even go down and sit in the bleachers. On the other hand, whole parts of weeks go by when not a single person is allowed in the pool - the pool is a ghost facility just sitting there baking in the sun depreciating(well not actually depreciating..it would need to be resurfaced in X number of years wether 1000 people swam in it or no one did). You could take time-lapse aerial photos and not see a single person on the pool for days.

abm1213

Are you using my words again? Clever. You can see right through me, I can tell. I feel so... exposed and humiliated by your reparte. Here's another word that I am using that you can use too - deprecation. But you don't have to use only my words, you can use all the words in the dictionary for free - they will not hurt you although they look dangerous.

You know, I just want to apologize in advance for whatever agravation I seem to have caused you. But I still don't understand why some tracks are open to all and others are locked up like storage spaces most of the time. I guess I don't think that should be such a bad thing to talk about. I guess you don't want to go to your track and ride around with your buddies except when you have a serious race. Some people only play poker for money.

My point is that the restrictions and elitism (IPA on the fixedgearfever.com site) that you seem to prefer are obsolete and unpopular and that the reason that kids are not swarming all over your track (as track atheletes) and begging their parents to buy them track bikes with little tiny wheels, is that it is locked up most of the time and the rest of the time it is covered with rule-bound masters racers competeting for paper ribbons.

bitingduck

Different liability and insurance situations, whether real or perceived. Probably also depends on the neighborhood-- some are probably in places where people still leave their doors unlocked, and others are in places where nobody would even think of doing such a thing.

I'd really like to see some grass tracks in parks in the US-- they're cheap to make, and a parks and rec program could run races on them, and kids could mess around on them pretty much any time the park's open.

But another reason people don't come out is that they really do get freaked out by the no brakes/fixed gear thing. We get hundreds of people riding at the Rose Bowl every Tues/Thurs evening after the time change, and the skill level is low, and the number of serious crashes is relatively high. But if you try to get some of those people to come out to the track (even offering to drive) at the same time on the same day, it's hard to get people to come out. In a typical 2 hour interval session on those nights we cover more distance with a better workout, and it usually even includes a practice race that's safer than the bowl ride and will improve your skills more.

abm1213

I simply do not buy that the kids that I know, my sons age is nine, would be freaked about the no brakes thing for more than 15 or 20 minutes. These kids are very durable, strong, and willing to take risks to learn new skills. My original comparison with skatepark utilization, although not perfect as Mr. ZapCat made perfectly clear, proves that public sports venues can be virtually self-regulating. And several posts indicate that there are tracks around that don't kill interest by locking the bowl down.

I am pretty amazed at how provocative it was to simply consider options to regulating velodrome utilization in addition to lockdown. Wow, NIMBYism.

bitingduck

You're right - kids think it's a blast, but their parents will probably get freaked out, and the bikes cost more than a skateboard and are harder to come by.

I don't think what you posted was all that provocative or generated much controversy- I think people are posting their interpretations of why it's the way it is.

If you want to change it, the best and easiest way to start is at your local velodrome. Talk to the organizers, volunteer to staff open time, help get more volunteers to staff open time, put together a proposal to make it more accessible. Nobody's going to do it for you, but if you have a reasonable case a lot of people will get out of your way, and might even help a little.

One thing I was thinking about on this last night is that while many of the velodromes are on public land/in public parks, they're leased and operated by local velodrome associations that are essentially private, and often have to fight with the local parks to get things like permanent restrooms, even if they have the money to pay for construction themselves. They may see maintenance/liability as reasons they can't be open all the time, or it may be that they would like to, but some entity (their park, their insurer, or some other entity) requires that there always be an attendant and they don't have the staff.

I'm sure it's different for every facility, but you can set an example by going to your local facility, getting to know the organizers, and proposing some new stuff to open things up. Complaining about it to a bunch of anonymous geeks on bike forums isn't going to change much. Get involved and change it yourself.

PerfectCircle

You are most wise.

stendhalian

that's why i sneak in at night. besides you don't have to wear clothes...much better.

Matthew A Brown

I don't think it does. There are always going to be degrees of safety involved. A lot of the safety that happens at a heavily populated skatepark comes from that social structure, that everyone's looking out for each other and helping each other out. I don't think that this scenario is one that the management is working against, but rather that it is their job is firstly to manage the track. This means keeping the owners (often the city/county/etc) and the insurance people happy, both which require gobs of red tape (arguably for good reason).

You hold up the self-regulation of skateparks as an example, but this policing one's own clan existed for DECADES before the parks, wholly independent of any enthusiasm from any management. The same will have to happen with velodrome racing as well. With the current/impending boom of fixed gear and track racing, I don't think we'll have more than a couple years. The "problem" is that some owners/managers can see this boom very clearly and are preparing for it, while others will wait for proper saturation before opening the floodgates.

Given the amount of capital necessary to build and manage a velodrome, I can very easily see why people would want to err on the conservative side.