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-   -   Cost Effective Parts (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/259207-cost-effective-parts.html)

CrimsonKarter21 01-08-07 04:15 PM

Cost Effective Parts
 
As you guys now know, I'm building up my Giant Omnium as my first build for track only use. Right now, I've got most of the parts figured out, but some parts I'm not so sure about, and others I want to know what you guy's think about.

Here is my build list so far:

Hubs: Shimano Dura-Ace 7710, 32 hole
Spokes: ??? front will be radially laced w/ bladed spokes, rear will be 2x
Rims: ??? is the Mavic Reflex any good?
Alternative: Mavic Ellipse wheelset
Bottom Bracket: Campagnolo Record, but is the Miche Primato any good?
Cranks: ???
Chainrings: ???
Chain: ???
Cogs/Lockring: Shimano Dura-Ace 7710

Headset: Giant integrated
Fork: Giant carbon fiber
Seatpost: Ritchey WCS aluminum
Stem: Ritchey WCS aluminum
Bars: Nitto CrMo
Pedals: clipless, probably Shimano Dura-Ace 7800 or Look Keo carbon/CrMo

So I just need some cost effective ideas for all of the question marks. I'll be upgrading the parts as I get more money, but for now I wawnt some good base stuff without it being too flimsy.
Saddle: Whatever feels good

Mike T. 01-08-07 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonKarter21
Spokes: ? front will be radially laced w/ bladed spokes, rear will be 2x

Sapim CX-Ray bladed spokes are tops. Just ask Lance or Boardman. I get mine from my buddy - ThorUSA.com. Tell him I sent ya.

Quote:

Cranks: ?
Chainrings: ?
Love my Stonglight crankset (Business Cycles) and a selection of TA rings (PeterWhiteCycles.com)

bonelesschicken 01-08-07 06:38 PM

I had Reflexes on a bike for a while. They seemed flexy when accelerating hard and I eventually got rid of them because of this. I wasn't even riding them on the track so I would imagine they might be even worse for you. It was also my first time building wheels so that may have something to do with it but I had a shop check them out and tension them so I doubt it.
edit: also I would stay away frome the Miche BB. The cups tend to come loose and will need to be loctited in place and I had a lot of problems with mine making noise.

CrimsonKarter21 01-08-07 07:22 PM

M'kay, thanks for the advice. I don't mind paying $100 for a very stiff bottom bracket (Record), now what are some wheel choices I might want to look at? I think Velocity has a tubular version fo their Deep V's, but I don't know too much about those except for the hipsters that buy them in different colors. For instance, what are you guys riding on? Also, how can I determine spoke length once I have the hubs and rims?

Toxanadu 01-08-07 08:31 PM

iro crank - cost effective

mickster 01-09-07 10:35 AM

The BB should be dictated by the crankset you go for. Both the Miche and Campy track BBs only come in one axle length, and this may or may not give you a good chainline with non-campy or Miche cranks. Decide on the cranks then we can advise on the BB.
Wheels wise I'd go for the handbuilds onto D-Ace over the Ellipses. More repairable if you crash, plus likely lighter (FWIW) and unlike the Ellipse's they have a standard 42.5mm track chainline when used with decent cogs (D-Ace / EAI etc). Spend some money on decent tubulars eg Vittoria Evo Pistas / Pistas. Don't sweat fancy aero wheels until you get better.

Chainrings - Mike T (and many others) likes his TA's. In my experience their track rings have been significantly out of round making getting the right chain tension almost impossible. I've had better luck with Campy (old and new), Sugino (75 / Mighty Comp / Zen) D-Ace and SR. AGain, your choice here will be dictated by the cranks you get.

mickster

yonderboy 01-09-07 01:39 PM

I'm running Sugino 75's with FSA rings and a Shimano UN-53 107mm BB. I think the whole thing retail runs around $200. But that probably doesn't help you, since you've decided on the Campy BB.

For a chain, either a SRAM PC-1 or a Whipperman will work just fine.

I ride Mavic CXP33s on my track rig, but my crit bike has Deep-Vs. The Deep-Vs have a more aero profile and are heavier than the CXP33s, but both rims are pretty stiff. If you get either of these rims laced to DA hubs, you'll have the wheels forever. If you ever decide to upgrade, you could still keep them around for warmup wheels, or whatever.

Mike T. 01-09-07 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickster
Chainrings - Mike T (and many others) likes his TA's. In my experience their track rings have been significantly out of round

I don't have that problem with my TAs.

CrimsonKarter21 01-21-07 06:35 PM

Okay guys, thanks for the help and I've almost finalized my build. The only two things I need to know about are;

1.) Dura-Ace group or Campy C-Record group? The Campy is $60 more and comes with hubs, BB, crankset, threadless headset, and a lockring. The Dura-Ace includes all of this, plus a cog.

2.) I'm having trouble choosing between the Velocity Pro Elite tubular (30mm aero profile) or the Escape (somewhat aero). The Escape is $11 more. The'll be laced with Sapim CX-Ray's.

ultraman6970 01-21-07 08:44 PM

my 2%...

THis is what I would do. After all this is your 1st bike right?... Get the Miche Group like for 300 something bucks, the group comes even with the seat post, pedals and headset. The seat port is super cool and probably u wont change that thing ever. The miche BB sucks, still cant understand why all the other stuff has good quality and the bb looks super cheese... so go to ebay and get a TOKEN Carbon/Cromo Bottom Bracket campy compatable - 102mms... the campy road fits perfect to the miche cranks so no problems with chain lines and stuff besides the token is ISO so thats even better. U can get that token BB like for 40 bucks, sealed bearings, is good stuff, I been using one for 2 years already.

THe wheels? Why u dont get a nice pair or cane creek volos??? u can get them like for 400 bucks or less. The wheels are undestructables and they are TUBULARS as a real race bike should be. (probably this comment made some people mad hehe) The other option if u get the Miche group is to build the wheels. Mavic gp4 rims are super hard to find but those wheels will last forever. Araya rims are awesome also look for them.

The handlebar is ok... the stem i would choose is the one i got a few months ago... the nitto ct-80 0 degress, steel.. that thing shines like the sun and is super stiff. and it will fit perfect the handlebar u just choose already. the only thing u need to do to get the handle bar in is to use the "penny - backwars bolt" technique and u are all set (2 mins tops)

Get the miche group and built over that one, with the time u can upgrade or sell the stuff u dont need as for example the miche bb and the miche headset.

Have fun :)

Briareos 01-21-07 08:54 PM

Go to http://www.chucksbikes.com/store/ and go to the "Other" section.

There is a complete Miche Primato track groupset for $310. Just need spokes, rims (use the pro-elites) and tires.

EDIT: The IRO crankset, at $125, is also a great deal (as mentioned above).

ultraman6970 01-21-07 10:20 PM

THats what im talking about hehe

CrimsonKarter21 01-22-07 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultraman6970
my 2%...

THis is what I would do. After all this is your 1st bike right?... Get the Miche Group like for 300 something bucks, the group comes even with the seat post, pedals and headset. The seat port is super cool and probably u wont change that thing ever. The miche BB sucks, still cant understand why all the other stuff has good quality and the bb looks super cheese... so go to ebay and get a TOKEN Carbon/Cromo Bottom Bracket campy compatable - 102mms... the campy road fits perfect to the miche cranks so no problems with chain lines and stuff besides the token is ISO so thats even better. U can get that token BB like for 40 bucks, sealed bearings, is good stuff, I been using one for 2 years already.

THe wheels? Why u dont get a nice pair or cane creek volos??? u can get them like for 400 bucks or less. The wheels are undestructables and they are TUBULARS as a real race bike should be. (probably this comment made some people mad hehe) The other option if u get the Miche group is to build the wheels. Mavic gp4 rims are super hard to find but those wheels will last forever. Araya rims are awesome also look for them.

The handlebar is ok... the stem i would choose is the one i got a few months ago... the nitto ct-80 0 degress, steel.. that thing shines like the sun and is super stiff. and it will fit perfect the handlebar u just choose already. the only thing u need to do to get the handle bar in is to use the "penny - backwars bolt" technique and u are all set (2 mins tops)

Get the miche group and built over that one, with the time u can upgrade or sell the stuff u dont need as for example the miche bb and the miche headset.

Have fun :)

The wheelset will be tubular, trust me. And the wheelset that I specified will be $160 in spokes and $86 for both rims, plus the cost of the hubs. Plus, they're easier to replace if I crash (if track crashes are anything like criterium crashes, odds are I'll be in at least one) as stated before.

Also, if I decide to build up a really nice wheelset while I'm racing on the Volos' and use Campy hubs, would that make much difference to the chainline?

Also, can I get some links for the Volos wheelset for $400, but I can only find the wheels for $475.

ultraman6970 01-22-07 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonKarter21
The wheelset will be tubular, trust me. And the wheelset that I specified will be $160 in spokes and $86 for both rims, plus the cost of the hubs. Plus, they're easier to replace if I crash (if track crashes are anything like criterium crashes, odds are I'll be in at least one) as stated before.

Also, if I decide to build up a really nice wheelset while I'm racing on the Volos' and use Campy hubs, would that make much difference to the chainline?

Also, can I get some links for the Volos wheelset for $400, but I can only find the wheels for $475.


Chainline? I doubt it... so the answer in my opinion is NO. Regarding to accidents in a track, well thats a thing of luck. I ran like for 10 years aprox. (12 to be more precise) and so far i remember i got 2 accidents, none of them got any impact over the front wheel or the frames, but I got a few scars to remember it hehehe... So is a thing of luck and know what to do when you hear the infamous noise of spokes touching pedals or axels... always go in the pront of the peloton (ALWAYS) the accidents are always in the back of the pack as in the road or criteriums. Many times the best way to scape is go up in the bank... why? because when somebody falls it will be moving where? Xactly.. DOOWWWNN the bank (gavitational laws hehe)... Dont think that you will fall or that will happend. Besides after the 1st race youll figure it out who are the dirty racers and who are the clean ones. And to win a dirty racer you need to crush them with performance.

Well to much for tonite.. have fun with your build...

UM

CrimsonKarter21 01-22-07 08:35 PM

Well, thanks a lot guys for the help, and I'm really looking forward to this build. Hopefully I'll see you all at either Lehigh or Major Taylor, whichever I feel like driving a forever and a half to race at. Something about track bikes always allured me, sometihng that shouldn't be put onto anything but a purpose built track. Maybe that stems from me racing karts for 5 years, I don't know. I like track more than I do road.

CrimsonKarter21 01-24-07 09:38 PM

For the record, does anyone know the cheapest place to the the Dura-Ace group? The cheapest I've seen was $635 for the cranks,BB, headset, hubs, cog, lockring and chainring.

After I get an answer I swear to you all I'll let this damned thread die.

yonderboy 01-24-07 11:51 PM

From World Class Cycles? They've got the cheapest prices on grouppos that I've found on the internet. You should probably check if they have it all in stock, before you get all worked up about it.

CrimsonKarter21 01-25-07 11:47 AM

Yeah, well there is a link above that offers the Miche group they have for $80 less, so there must be a cheaper place to get D-A.

ultraman6970 01-29-07 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonKarter21
For the record, does anyone know the cheapest place to the the Dura-Ace group? The cheapest I've seen was $635 for the cranks,BB, headset, hubs, cog, lockring and chainring.

After I get an answer I swear to you all I'll let this damned thread die.


If you want to spend 650 bucks why you dont go with the campy group??? I'm not saying Shimano D/a is junk ok? I know is good stuff but well just a tought...

CafeRacer 01-29-07 08:44 PM

If your gonna spend the doh for Dura-Ace hubs and Sapim spokes your might aswell look at the Velocity rims. The Pro elite rim makes for an extremly strong and stiff wheel. Its tall tool.

Crank wise, Dura-Ace or Sugino 75. Both are the most common on the race scene. Both very strong. Dont put Campy cranks on your bike. Mixing Campy and Shimano parts can cause fire :)


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