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  1. #1
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    Rims and track wheels

    So I am relatively new to track racing and had a few questions for those with the track experience. Currently I ride at the out door velodrome in san jose california, it is cement with mild banking (22.5 degrees) so its real nice for us beginners (i've been out twice). Anyways, I've been riding mountain bikes for about a year and a half now and fully enveloped myself in the sport (I work at a bike shop as a mechanic and have a decent knowledge of mountain bikes). I have a fixed conversion right now that I am planning on giving some new wheels, some super record hubs converted to fixed laced to deepv's (make em nice n sturdy for commuting). At the same time I am planning on buying a true track frame (I've got my eyes on the s-works langster frame) and was thinking of building a decent wheel set for it. Im pretty set on phil hubs, and I'm thinking 32 hole (I weight about 170, tho that weight may go up). As for spokes I'm considering using a straight 15 gauge dt swiss spoke, laced radially in the front, and 3x on the rear. I am a little hung on the rims though...I would like to try out tubulars, but I dont have any experience with them and dont know if I really should be using them. I found some ambrosio rims which back in the day seemed to be pretty nice, and I also looked at both the velocity escapes (which appear only available as machined) and the pro elite (which seems a little heavy...my mtb rims weigh more). I also saw some araya adx-1s which look real enticing but I have no clue where to get them. Anyone have any ideas? Should I try for some tubular rims? Or maybe just stick to Deep Vs or Aeroheads, maybe CXP 22s?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by audi0phile
    So I am relatively new to track racing and had a few questions for those with the track experience. Currently I ride at the out door velodrome in san jose california, it is cement with mild banking (22.5 degrees) so its real nice for us beginners (i've been out twice). Anyways, I've been riding mountain bikes for about a year and a half now and fully enveloped myself in the sport (I work at a bike shop as a mechanic and have a decent knowledge of mountain bikes). I have a fixed conversion right now that I am planning on giving some new wheels, some super record hubs converted to fixed laced to deepv's (make em nice n sturdy for commuting). At the same time I am planning on buying a true track frame (I've got my eyes on the s-works langster frame) and was thinking of building a decent wheel set for it. Im pretty set on phil hubs, and I'm thinking 32 hole (I weight about 170, tho that weight may go up). As for spokes I'm considering using a straight 15 gauge dt swiss spoke, laced radially in the front, and 3x on the rear. I am a little hung on the rims though...I would like to try out tubulars, but I dont have any experience with them and dont know if I really should be using them. I found some ambrosio rims which back in the day seemed to be pretty nice, and I also looked at both the velocity escapes (which appear only available as machined) and the pro elite (which seems a little heavy...my mtb rims weigh more). I also saw some araya adx-1s which look real enticing but I have no clue where to get them. Anyone have any ideas? Should I try for some tubular rims? Or maybe just stick to Deep Vs or Aeroheads, maybe CXP 22s?

    I would have to say that the SWorks Langster is the hottest track frame ever I have an 07 and it is rediculous to say the least. I had to choose between the felt and the langster and I am glad I got the langster I would also look into the Pinerrello's they are super hot as well. As for tires I would not go with tubulars on the street between the glue and the nature of the tires being expensive and hard to change it is not such a good idea. I have Paul hubs laced to 32 hole Mavic CXP 33's and I am in love with the wheels they are symetirical laced 3 cross front and rear. I like the Phil hubs and I am thinking about getting a set but the Pauls are really nice and they look awsome. The CXP 22's are great rims I just wanted something more aero. If you do get the sworks be careful with your stem choice with that carbon steerer tube I have a tompson on mine the correct clamp style and i have a minor crack in my steerer tube on the top it could be because I weight 210 but I think it may have somthing to do with the cut outs on my stem. If you have any questions about the frame or setting up a pro track bike give me a shout my bro has the fuji track pro and we also have 3 other track bikes in our apartment so we have a good amount of knowledge.
    "save the world fix your bike"

  3. #3
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    advice would be greatly appreciated

    I do actually have some questions setting up a track bike. I work with mainly mountain bikes, though I do have a little road experience (I worked at a performance bike for a year so that knowledge could be fallable). I have heard it is good to run a slightly small track frame. Ideally I would probably ride a 58 cm road frame. I stand 6'2" with a 33.5" inseam. I weigh about 165, though I hope to reach 180 one of these days, either way, still a medium build. After closer inspection of the "58 cm" s-works langster it looks like that may be the ideal fit. The seat tube is negligble in my mind (c-c is 49 and c-top is like 54) and the effective top tube is 57 cm. In my mind this seems like the perfect buy...any opinions or advice?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Msngr's Avatar
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    there is no reason to get clincher rims for the track, is there? and why phils for the track? phils are ideal for street use because they are tough, but you don't need that on the drome.

    as far as the frame goes, it sounds to me like you'd be better off getting a medium priced frame for now and upgrading later. put your money into wheels and cranks.
    Maid in Taiwan

  5. #5
    park ranger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Msngr
    there is no reason to get clincher rims for the track, is there? and why phils for the track? phils are ideal for street use because they are tough, but you don't need that on the drome.

    as far as the frame goes, it sounds to me like you'd be better off getting a medium priced frame for now and upgrading later. put your money into wheels and cranks.
    right on...i have some old campy victory hubs laced to some campy tubular rims...they are lighter than my dura ace track hubs laced to open pros...i think phils are heavier than DA track hubs even...run a light hub with tubulars.
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  6. #6
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    the phils are a bit heavy (heavier than my blingy kings on my mtb) however the weight is located in the center of the wheel. This weight penalty only counts negatively towards the entire bike wieght, not the more critical rotating weight (albeit a little does....but again, not much). If not phils which hub should I be lookint at? And should I be more concerned about aero (such as the 540 grams, pro elites-the tubular version of deep vs) or light weight rims?
    Last edited by audi0phile; 01-18-07 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #7
    (((Fully Awake))) Serendipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SworksLangster
    I would have to say that the S-Works Langster is the hottest track frame ever! I have an 07, and it is ridiculous to say the least. I had to choose between the Felt and the Langster, and I am glad I got the Langster. I would also look into the Pinarrello's. They are super hot as well.

    As for tires, I would not go with tubulars on the street .Between the glue, and the nature of the tires being expensive, and hard to change it is not such a good idea. I have Paul hubs laced to 32 hole Mavic CXP 33's, and I am in love with the wheels. They are symetrical laced 3 cross front and rear. I like the Phil hubs and I am thinking about getting a set, but the Pauls are really nice and they look awsome. The CXP 22's are great rims. I just wanted something more aero.

    If you do get the S-works, be careful with your stem choice. With that carbon steerer tube (I have a tompson on mine),I have a minor crack in my steerer tube (on the top). It could be because I weight 210, but I think it may have something to do with the cut outs on my stem.

    If you have any questions about the frame or setting up a pro track bike give me a shout. My bro has the Fuji Track Pro, and we also have 3 other track bikes in our apartment, so we have a good amount of knowledge.

    "save the world fix your bike"
    [Post edited for clarity-SD]

    Okay, now that I can read your post, you are definitely misleading with your statements. This is the track forum, and tubulars are proven better for numerous reasons.

    Some issues with carbon cockpits can be experienced for "clydesdale" riders, but this is relatively rare. Again, were speaking of the velodrome.

    Owning all the track bikes in the world cannot replace experience and dedication at the velodrome.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member CafeRacer's Avatar
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    Origional Poster:

    It sounds to me like the bug has bit you! Like me you work in a shop. Meaning you can build up a bike for as cheap as buying one complete. I would search and buy a frame that fits nicely. Steel makes a good choice because you can crash it a few times. Its also less likly to fatigue from gear changes. Somthing that all aluminum bikes are plauged with.

    As far as wheels go theres nothing wrong with having slightly heavier hubs if they're going to last you. Plenty guys use Phil Wood and Pauls hubs regardless of weight for racing. They have big bearings and strong flanges. Witch also helps if you ride your bike eleswear than the track. Dura-Ace and Campag hubs are super nice, but also impractical for most people. They're not sealed, theyre ment for speed. If your only going to have one wheel set theres no reason to go tubular. If you use a high quality road rim and a very nice road tire you can inflate them quite high and they will work just fine, espessialy if your banking is that shallow. Plus then you can ride your bike on the street and not worry about having to glue on a new tubular if you flat it. Use 14 guage spokes. They fit better in the hub and will last alot longer before the heads pop off. Being that your track is shallow a radial front wheel would be fine but in most cases its easier to order one box of spokes since most track wheel pairs use the same size front and rear....convienant.

    Hope that helps

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeRacer
    Origional Poster:

    Its also less likly to fatigue from gear changes. Somthing that all aluminum bikes are plauged with.
    I'v never heard of this. How does a frame fatigue from changing the gear?

  10. #10
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    I think they are refering to the rear drop outs. Aluminum is a little softer than steel and so the constant tightening and loosening of your rear axle could potentially eat away at the fork ends (rear drop outs). Now-a-days on high end aluminum frames its common to see fork end protectors, such as steel plates that are bolted on (with allen head bolts) to the fork ends, and can be removed should they be sufficiently worn. I know for a fact the s-works langster and van dessel dragstrip courage have this as a feature.

  11. #11
    oldsprinter oldsprinter's Avatar
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    audi0phile,
    Your wheels sound far too heavy for the track. A lot of people have questioned using Phil Woods - I'd second that. Go for a Dura Ace or Campagnolo Record hub.

    As for spokes, avoid 15 straight gauge. A 15-guage spoke doesn't sit tightly in the hub (because the hole is drilled to accommodate a 14-guage spoke). If you want to keep the weight down, go for some Sapim CX-Ray spokes or DT Aerolites. They have 14 guage heads but are eliptical, so you get a light, strong and aerodynamic wheel.

    Finally, rims. Velocity rims are too heavy, as are Mavic CXP33s. Go for something tubular and under 350 grams. If you can afford it, you should go for Zipp 404s. If you want something light and durable, go for Mavic Reflex rims. Old rims such as the Araya Super Aero, Wolber Profil A or Assos (yes, the once made rims) are also great if you can get your hands on a pair.

    For tyres - you can race something like a Vittoria Atlanta Gold for most races, then switch to a Sondeclasse or a Dugast for something really important.

  12. #12
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serendipper
    [Post edited for clarity-SD]


    Owning all the track bikes in the world cannot replace experience and dedication at the velodrome.
    Amen, and neither should anyone take seriously that the Langster is "The hottest track frame ever". It might be "rediculous", but I can't be sure.

  13. #13
    Upstanding member. Mike T.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy
    Amen, and neither should anyone take seriously that the Langster is "The hottest track frame ever". It might be "rediculous", but I can't be sure.
    Took the words outta my mouth there Sammy. So ya did.

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