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  1. #1
    Senior Member hotbike's Avatar
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    Building my own Track

    I would like to aquire a piece of land where I can build my own , private half mile oval with eight degrees of banking.

    I have studied streamilined recumbent bicycles, and have built prototype electric mopeds.

    I feel a half-mile track is necessary as anticipated speeds will be ~55 MPH. Eight degrees of banking should be enough. I want to test new electric mopeds for 5000 miles on my private track, so I can be sure they are safe before letting them loose on public roads.

    Fairings are not allowed in UCI racing because they are considered cheating.I don't care.
    http://www.whatisafairing.com
    Why is that piece of plastic called a fairing? It reduces the 55 MPH wind in my face to a fair wind.

    I plan on a dirt track, maybe pave it later. It's not for racing, it's for endurance testing of new bikes.

    Here's some pics of the prototypes:



    I hate to offend anyone, or start an argument over presta vs schraeder, but street legal moped tires have to be at least 2.5 inches in width.

    I would welcome any input or suggestions members here on the Track Cycing forum may have.

    hotbike@hotmail.com

  2. #2
    如果你能讀了這個你講中文 genericbikedude's Avatar
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    that **** is hilarious. hire me as a technical consultant. I have extensive experience, and will work for as low as $1000 per day.

  3. #3
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    ?????????????

  4. #4
    Upstanding member. Mike T.'s Avatar
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    You're too early with this. April 1st is 50 days away.

  5. #5
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    You're a loony!
    Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

    1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
    1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
    1988 Ducati 750 F1

  6. #6
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    Hint for your next project. Something that flies under human power! You already have the cockpit on the enclosed bike. Just need some wings, maybe some blue tarp with umbrella stays?
    Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

    1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
    1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
    1988 Ducati 750 F1

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    I know of one man already building a velodrome in his backyard. Circular, concrete with about 30 degrees of banking (can't recall exact angle).

  8. #8
    TJ
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    3Rensho, great example of tolerance. Give the guy a break and let him post if he wants to.
    "Get a bicycle. You will not regret it... if you live." ~ Mark Twain

    "Get yourself a cheap track bike - you won't regret it...if you live." unknown

  9. #9
    Senior Member hotbike's Avatar
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    Maybe I should've just asked the question about building a track, without attaching the photos of the wild rides. I know track cyclists are purists and never defer from the Diamond Frame.

    What I said was, I would like to build a half mile track with shallow banking, no more than 8 degrees.

    This is not a question about electric mopeds, there are other forums for that. I have two Taiwanese built Lafree electric bicycles, but the velomobiles I build myself are a lot faster, due to good aerodynamics.

    I have seen flat quarter mile tracks for running. The college I went to has a half mile track, again flat, no banking. But the surface is gravel , and when I tried riding a bike on it, my tires slid out.

    Ignore what the bikes look like. They could be disguised prototypes for all you know, so the competition can't guess what the bike is going to look like when it hits the market.

    Most velodromes are a quarter mile and have extreme banking.
    I don't want the banking to exceed what is found in roads and highways.

    I'm asking if anyone here has expertise in banked tracks. I don't want to build grandstands.
    I want to know if eight degrees would be enough banking to keep from sliding out.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotbike
    Maybe I should've just asked the question about building a track, without attaching the photos of the wild rides. I know track cyclists are purists and never defer from the Diamond Frame.

    What I said was, I would like to build a half mile track with shallow banking, no more than 8 degrees.

    This is not a question about electric mopeds, there are other forums for that. I have two Taiwanese built Lafree electric bicycles, but the velomobiles I build myself are a lot faster, due to good aerodynamics.

    I have seen flat quarter mile tracks for running. The college I went to has a half mile track, again flat, no banking. But the surface is gravel , and when I tried riding a bike on it, my tires slid out.

    Ignore what the bikes look like. They could be disguised prototypes for all you know, so the competition can't guess what the bike is going to look like when it hits the market.

    Most velodromes are a quarter mile and have extreme banking.
    I don't want the banking to exceed what is found in roads and highways.

    I'm asking if anyone here has expertise in banked tracks. I don't want to build grandstands.
    I want to know if eight degrees would be enough banking to keep from sliding out.

    Ignore, the others, your plan sounds great fun!
    The definitive book on track design is here http://www.velodromes.com/guide.html I'm not sure of its availability, but it's worth a try. It's written by the world's foremost cycle track designer and officially approved by the world cycling governing body. Whilst the book is aimed at designers of shorter tracks with steeper banking and hard surfaces, it might be useful in terms of track geometry and foundations etc.
    From a personal point of view, I feel that 8 degrees is likely to be insufficient if you're looking at reaching 55mph unless the vast majority of your design is curved i.e an almost circular design.

    Good luck with your project and be sure to post photos when it's finished so that you can prove all the doubters wrong and give the rest of us a laugh.

  11. #11
    Upstanding member. Mike T.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWaB
    I know of one man already building a velodrome in his backyard.
    I know a guy who built one in his backyard too - Peter Junek of Fonthill near Niagara Falls Ont Canada. There were many races here until it rotted away. Peter still builds tracks and just did one in Mexico.

    The last pic shows Peter on his Mexico track. He rides regularily on our Forest City indoor track in London Ont but he didn't build this one.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
    Senior Member taras0000's Avatar
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    Go to www.analyticcycling.com and ask the guy there. He's a physicist who loves to work with track cycling models. My guess is that it's not the length so much as the radius of the curve that's going to matter. You are going to have to figure out the centrifugal force for a given (optimal) speed and the given curve that you want to use. This will give you an acceleration vector that is going to act outwards on the vehicle and rider. The object here is to find a lateral (outward) force vector that when combined (traingulated) with the gravitational pull (9.8 m/s downwards) would give you a hypotenuse that is perpendicular to the track.



    I know, realy geeky. I may be wrong, but I guess this is how they would figure it out. Not a physics person.
    Taras - :noun. 1. Typically an overweight has-been that can sometimes be seen pootling around a velodrome on an old Look KG 233.

  13. #13
    Senior Member hotbike's Avatar
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    "can not open the page www.analyticcycling.com because the server stopped responding"
    That's a new one on me... usually it can not find the server.

    Anyway, what I gather is that the velodrome track is engineered to put the bike "perpendicular" to the track surface.
    Since I'm building and/or importing electric mopeds , I wouldn't mind if I have to lean the bike/moto into the curve. I want to test new bikes before putting them on the road. Roads don't have as high a degree of banking , if there's a trafic jam , cars and especially trucks would fall over on their sides.

    I want to do this as simple as posible. I don't really have the land yet, but we have overpriced properties on Long Island. We are talking about investing in land Upstate New York where there is plenty of dirt.
    I want to keep it simple-plain dirt. I want to keep kids with bmx bikes and shovels off , because here on L.I. they added moguls to the tracks I cleared, around a recharge basin and on an unused corner of a golf course.

    I was thinking 55 MPH on the straightaways, not circular. If eight degrees doesn't work, I'll build up the berm and make it twelve degrees. Dirt tends to settle with time, so I will wait a few years before paving , if I pave it at all. Maybe a few cubic yards of bluestone aggregate will be sprinkled on the dirt and get mashed in with rain and riding.

    I hate what motorbikes do to bmx/mtb tracks. They rev and spew dirt, leaving ruts that fill with rainwater.

    Maybe I should reiterate my comparrison to a jogging track, which is flat, but has six lanes for runners.
    I'm talking about the same thing, only put banking on the outer two lanes, otherwise it's a berm.
    Cinders might be a good surfacing material.
    I want to use a farm field. I hope the berm can be kept low enough that no one asks qustions, i.e. building permit.
    A motorcycle, used the right way, could create a berm by repeatedly circling the perimeter of the field, staying in the same groove.
    Remember the KISS rule, Keep It Simple.

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