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Old 10-14-07, 01:47 AM   #1
LanceUppercut
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Looking for perfect frame. Have you seen it?

I'm looking for something that doesn't seem to exist. A mid priced, lugged steel track frame with a drilled fork and compatible with 1" threaded headset. I thinking of going with a used keirin frame, and having the fork drilled for street use.....but it would be a shame to drill such a fine work of art. Any leads would be appreciated.
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Old 10-14-07, 03:16 AM   #2
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As you aren't looking for something for the track I think you'll have better luck with this question on the SSFG section of the board.
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Old 10-14-07, 11:04 AM   #3
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Well actually, I am looking for something for the track (just not strictly for the track). My conversion just doesn't cut it on those sloped banks. Thanks anyway. I will try posting in SSFG.
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Old 10-14-07, 11:12 AM   #4
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Unless you plan on removing your brake every time you go to the track I think you'd be better off getting a dedicated frame for the track and one for the road.
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Old 10-14-07, 11:25 AM   #5
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OK sorry, maybe I should have phrased it differently. It will be used 90% of the time at Alpenrose VD. But for some reason, I just want to be able to ride it on the street very occasionally. Is this considered strange among the seasoned vets? I just want the option, thats all. I'm definitely not as dedicated to the sport as the rest of you fellas, so maybe I'm in the wrong section of the board.
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Old 10-14-07, 01:31 PM   #6
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Learn to ride without a brake on the street. Its not really difficult. Try it and you'll see. Or just get what you need in the way of a frame and change out the fork to a road fork with a brake hole.
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Old 10-14-07, 02:25 PM   #7
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I'd actually suggest you get a front brake drilling or get a separate bike for the road. Riding brakeless on the road teaches you some nasty habits on the track. Some of the worst riders on the track are frankly those who ride fixies brakeless and automatically backpedal. On the track you don't backpedal except in an emergency because you are going to incur a chain reaction of the same behind you and sooner or later you bring someone down. You learn to modulate your pedaling on a track so you slide up smoothly behind another wheel and don't need to backpedal or disturb the rhythm and safety of other riders.

Not many fixie skills really transfer over to real track any longer. A trackstand is rare and not usually relevant on the track -- match sprints are started earlier and trackstands don't accomplish much. The gears most people ride on the road don't really develop the high cadence you need for serious track racing (130-160 rpm) -- and spinning out on a downhill doesn't really count. And all the backpedaling and skidding techniques on the road are dangerous and frustrating to other riders on the track. It'd be interesting to see fixie riders really develop some track skills -- it isn't pretty to be coming up behind a fixie rider on your own fixie and have them suddenly skid without warning in front of you.
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Old 10-14-07, 03:07 PM   #8
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Yue Tao,
It is illegal to ride w/o a front brake on the street in Portland (I don't actually use the brake, its just for show). Sorry everyone, This post should never have been put in this section. (Last post, I promise.)
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Old 10-14-07, 05:41 PM   #9
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Soma has two legged steel frames, one is a track frame. I think it's $450 new.
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Old 10-14-07, 06:37 PM   #10
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I'd agree with 11.4 that riding brakeless gives you some bad habits on the track. Some of the people I rode with on the track this year were brakeless street riders. While they had great handling and were strong riders, they had a hard time modulating their speed on the track. Some races felt like a crit after every corner.

Referring to the OP's question, the Soma Delancy will fit your bill, as long as you get the Prestige track fork. It is setup for a front brake. I've been looking for a similar setup; I like to ride fixed-gear crits, but they require at least a front brake. Ultimately, I've given up, so I'm just building a full-time track bike. Fixed gear crits are fun, but they're too far and in-between. The majority of my fixed riding will be on the rollers or on the track.
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Old 10-14-07, 11:50 PM   #11
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^^^^

I thought of that too, but the Delancy is 1 1/8 threadless. The OP wants 1" threaded. Perhaps one of the small English builders like Mercian ( http://www.merciancycles.com/frame_vigorelli.asp ), or perhaps Bob Jackson can do a threaded set up. http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/pr...roducts_id=307
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Old 10-14-07, 11:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceUppercut View Post
I'm looking for something that doesn't seem to exist. A mid priced, lugged steel track frame with a drilled fork and compatible with 1" threaded headset. I thinking of going with a used keirin frame, and having the fork drilled for street use.....but it would be a shame to drill such a fine work of art. Any leads would be appreciated.
keirin frames are very nice but they aren't so precious that they should be treated
as something pure--they are lugged because of the heavy regulation around the
keirin racing in Japan, lugged technology has been around and ain't going away--
and many of the bikes use the same Long Shen lugs that are common on
custom bikes here--

There just happens to be crazy demand for NJS bikes at the moment--so much so
that Kalavinka has a year long wait for a frame--a bunch of little Japanese men with
giant thighs from actual track racing can't get
bikes to race on the track because crazy gaijin need NJS

I suggest having a bike built up lugged for yourself unless you are shorter than about 5 foot
10 in which case NJS bikes are easier to find in your size
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Old 10-15-07, 01:58 AM   #13
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I'd agree with 11.4 that riding brakeless gives you some bad habits on the track. Some of the people I rode with on the track this year were brakeless street riders. While they had great handling and were strong riders, they had a hard time modulating their speed on the track. Some races felt like a crit after every corner.
I think that's probably due to a lack of experience riding in a string more than anything else
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Old 10-15-07, 05:40 AM   #14
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I think that's probably due to a lack of experience riding in a string more than anything else
given that yonder boy was being very generous with "great handling" and most of them can't hold a line or ride closer than a few feet from someone else my money's with you.

Doesn't change the fact that you're better off with a brake though.
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Old 10-15-07, 09:54 AM   #15
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If you want to improve your handling ride rollers--
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Old 10-15-07, 01:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceUppercut View Post
I'm looking for something that doesn't seem to exist. A mid priced, lugged steel track frame with a drilled fork and compatible with 1" threaded headset. I thinking of going with a used keirin frame, and having the fork drilled for street use.....but it would be a shame to drill such a fine work of art. Any leads would be appreciated.
the de bernardi thron might be what you're looking for.
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Old 10-15-07, 02:31 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by CrimsonKarter21 View Post
Soma has two legged steel frames, one is a track frame. I think it's $450 new.
I want a legged steel frame--so I can make the frame put it's feet down when mah chain breaks. .

seriously, they have a very nice lugged frame but it has more relaxed road geometry and is not really
a track bike
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Old 10-15-07, 04:30 PM   #18
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Yeah, the Soma website takes care to emphasize that it's a single speed road bike. The De Bernardi Thron suggestion is a good one, but according to Yellowjersey.com, De Bernardi went out of business.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/debpist.html
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Old 10-18-07, 09:23 PM   #19
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Jay at Winterborne could make exactly what you want. His custom steel frames are very nice and reasonably priced.

http://www.winterbornebikes.com/
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Old 10-18-07, 10:03 PM   #20
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given that yonder boy was being very generous with "great handling" and most of them can't hold a line or ride closer than a few feet from someone else my money's with you.

Doesn't change the fact that you're better off with a brake though.
I think you could say that about nearly anyone who is new to the track (or new to racing). I don't think riding a fixed-gear on the street makes a person more or less able to hold their line.
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Old 10-19-07, 06:58 AM   #21
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I think you could say that about nearly anyone who is new to the track (or new to racing). I don't think riding a fixed-gear on the street makes a person more or less able to hold their line.
The key isn't the track it's being comfortable and competent riding around other bikes. Experience riding in a "string" or group is something that pretty much everyone except the street fixie crowd brings with them to the track. It's also something much better gained on casual group rides than in a few hours of track class and cat 5 races.

The point is that the deficiencies of those riders(team beer specifically in yonder boy's case) probably come more from their inexperience riding in groups which is a result of their cliquey ride choices rather than simply not having a brake on the street.(although not having a brake on the street keeps them from riding with others in itself).
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Old 10-19-07, 07:13 AM   #22
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It's also something much better gained on casual group rides than in a few hours of track class and cat 5 races.
Oh, I'm not sure about that, unless you're talking only about Cat 5 track races. I learned to stay in a group pretty quickly in my Cat 5 Criteriums, lest I be run over by the higher cats.
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Old 10-19-07, 08:06 AM   #23
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The key isn't the track it's being comfortable and competent riding around other bikes. Experience riding in a "string" or group is something that pretty much everyone except the street fixie crowd brings with them to the track. It's also something much better gained on casual group rides than in a few hours of track class and cat 5 races.

The point is that the deficiencies of those riders(team beer specifically in yonder boy's case) probably come more from their inexperience riding in groups which is a result of their cliquey ride choices rather than simply not having a brake on the street.(although not having a brake on the street keeps them from riding with others in itself).
Well I guess your experiences are different. A lot of the street fixed crowd that also race track in my area also do group rides or race road and aren't necessarily as clique-ish as they would seem. I find there is a lot of overlap between different "scenes" around here.

Not to say there aren't clique-ish street fixed-gear riders, but those guys also don't typically race track.
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Old 10-19-07, 08:14 AM   #24
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Well I guess your experiences are different. A lot of the street fixed crowd that also race track in my area also do group rides or race road and aren't necessarily as clique-ish as they would seem. I find there is a lot of overlap between different "scenes" around here.

Not to say there aren't clique-ish street fixed-gear riders, but those guys also don't typically race track.
They overlapped before they ever came to the track or they got into various other types of riding and racing after they started riding on the track? The later seems pretty common of those few who actually get into track racing but the former seems much more rare at least where I've been.
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Old 10-19-07, 08:43 AM   #25
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They overlapped before they ever came to the track or they got into various other types of riding and racing after they started riding on the track? The later seems pretty common of those few who actually get into track racing but the former seems much more rare at least where I've been.
I've seen a lot of both. However with either group most of them had been doing group rides prior to racing on the track. A lot of the people around here started racing after a couple friends of mine organized this fixed-gear racing series on this park loop (Prospect park for those in NY, where a lot of road races are held).

In addition to those races many people in the street fixed-gear crowd also regularly do training rides (even those that don't race). It's not quite the same as a roadie training ride, but at times there have been groups of 10-20 fixed-gear riders that head out to train on route 9W or river road (two very popular training routes for roadies).

I think that because there is a lot of overlap here between track, road, street, etc. that people who want to transition from the street to the track have a lot of experienced people to look to for advice.

Edit: Of the 16 (that I can think of) street fixed-gears guys who raced track last season, half of them raced road first.

Last edited by Yoshi; 10-19-07 at 09:57 AM.
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