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  1. #1
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    Suntour Superbe Pro vs Sugino Zen Track

    Hello,
    Just wanted your opinions on both chainrings. Experiences? Reason being is that I luckily came across a source for either a Suntour Superbe Pro track crankset and chainring 165mm and a Sugino 75 crankset with a Zen track racing chainring also 165mm. Both new, with the sugino 75 setup only about $10 more. I've been reading alot about the Zen chainring on how it is so smooth and quiet extremely round, etc. etc. I've found almost next to nothing about the Suntour set/chainring. The only info I've found is that the suntour set is of high quality and I've seen a bunch of pics on velospace and I just love the look of the crankset and chainring. It has almost a vintage look (while the sugino setup looks more modern). Does anyone know how it performs? I will be putting the set on a white vivalo frame. I am just undecided because I've read elsewhere here on the forum that "11.4" said that one of the best chainrings he's tried was the sugino zen track ring. I am really favoring the 'look' of the suntour set over the sugino set. Even though I know how stupid it is, looks obviously don't affect performance. Question is what are the pros and cons with each one? I will be using an eai superstar cog and HKK vertex chain if that makes difference. This will be my first true track frame after riding on a conversion with a crappy origin 8 crankset/bmx chain. Thanks

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
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    I would be all over the Sugino. If you don't buy it send me the info and I will. I prefer the looks of that plus that setup was what Theo Bos set the flying 200m world record on. Good enough for him, good enough for me.

  3. #3
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    The Superbe Pro rings are really nice, quiet, long-lasting, and round. The crank arms are pretty and beautifully made, but they aren't as stiff as the 75's or Dura Ace 7710 (which is about the stiffest of all). Stiffness isn't everything, but the Superbe Pro crankarms never really earned a reputation like the matching hubs and pedals. I've also found that the alloy is a bit softer and the square-taper spline tends to deform a bit more on the Superbe Pro's than it does on the 75's or 7710's. The Zen is a superb ring as long as it's the track Zen and not the Messenger Zen (the track Zen and the current Dura Ace are the nicest available). So I'd snap up either ring but probably go to the Sugino 75's. It's hard to beat a good price on 75's unless you find a deal on a 7710.

  4. #4
    asleep at the wheel fixedpip's Avatar
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    I've ridden both on the track and again, like all the other posters, I'd pick the 75s. The Suntours are definitely better looking, you'll get more folks asking about them but on the track the 75s are just stiffer.

    However, if you've got a very smooth pedalling action then the Suntours might be better (same reason the Sugino Gran Compes aren't as stiff as the 75s) but as this is your first track bike, I'd go with the 75s.

    As someone else said the Suntour rings are lovely and they really last. Definitely nicer than the stock 75 rings.

    [Edit: obviously that should be Sugino Grand Mighty not Gran Compes]
    Last edited by fixedpip; 12-05-07 at 11:44 AM.

  5. #5
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    I don't know anything about "Zen" parts. Superbe Pro is/was great stuff. Koichi Nakano won 10 pro sprint championships, mostly on Superbe Pro. So it should do.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11.4 View Post
    The Superbe Pro rings are really nice, quiet, long-lasting, and round. .

    Anything but. Get the 75.

    Quote Originally Posted by splasher78
    Even though I know how stupid it is, looks obviously don't affect performance.
    Sounds like the whole build is about looks. What wheels do you have are you even putting the money where it matters?

  7. #7
    Senior Member CafeRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    I don't know anything about "Zen" parts. Superbe Pro is/was great stuff. Koichi Nakano won 10 pro sprint championships, mostly on Superbe Pro. So it should do.
    Correction: Koichi won 9 sprint championships and was awarded one by means of default because the other competitor's shoulder fell out....


    Zen are the best rings on the market. Stiff, Light and very fast. Sugino 75's are great cranks. A couple world records are held on them aswell as some of the biggest/fastest sprinters in the world stll riding them.

    Suntour stuff is very nice but is also old and hasnt been made in years.

  8. #8
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    Suntour Superbe Pro vs Sugino Zen Track

    the wheelset I have is Hi Flange phil wood (silver) laced to Mavic CXP-30 Because I ride in the street I wanted a stiff wheelset. Built them my self for the first time and I love 'em!

  9. #9
    Banned. teiaperigosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixedpip View Post
    I've ridden both on the track and again, like all the other posters, I'd pick the 75s. The Suntours are definitely better looking, you'll get more folks asking about them but on the track the 75s are just stiffer.

    However, if you've got a very smooth pedalling action then the Suntours might be better (same reason the Sugino Gran Compes aren't as stiff as the 75s) but as this is your first track bike, I'd go with the 75s.

    As someone else said the Suntour rings are lovely and they really last. Definitely nicer than the stock 75 rings.
    what reason would that be?

  10. #10
    Banned. teiaperigosa's Avatar
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    ^^^^

    ????

    where's 11.4 when you need 'im?...lol....or anyone else...
    I read in a thread somewhere that Tomity said that keirin racers like Grand Mighty's better than 75's because they are MORE flexible...or was something lost in translation?...if not, what sense would this make...very counterintuitive imo

  11. #11
    asleep at the wheel fixedpip's Avatar
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    I've been trying to find that thread again too. But I remember (or maybe I'm making it up) Tomity saying that while most Keirin riders use 75s, those with very smooth pedalling actions preferred the Grand Mighty crank.

    But it maybe that its just down to a choice of stiff but not that great a finish (75s) or not as stiff but much better finish (Grand Mighty). Who knows cause I can't find it any longer?

    Best I could do was this:
    Sugino 75 vs. Sugino Grand Mighty

  12. #12
    Senior Member nateintokyo's Avatar
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    I posted this in another thread somewhere, but the Grand Mighty is not as stiff as the 75. It is meant for experienced riders with a smoother cadence who aren't losing power by a messy technique.....or at least that is what the Sugino rep said a velodrome here in Japan when I asked him about the stiffness of each crank. He said 75's stiffness helps cover for slopiness, but some people appreciate the suppleness of the GM.

  13. #13
    Banned. teiaperigosa's Avatar
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    thanks fixedpip and nate
    Last edited by teiaperigosa; 12-06-07 at 08:32 AM.

  14. #14
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    Everyone thinks stiffness is great, but it doesn't necessarily translate into speed on the track. Just the opposite at times. A Grand Mighty isn't going to lose anyone a race. Nor will a Superbe Pro, for that matter. There's a lot of FGF hype around 75's, but they aren't all that special. The Grand Mighty gets three times the number of forging steps that the 75 does, which makes it tougher and also more breakage resistant. The 75 isn't all that stiff compared to some of the road cranksets out there, or compared to DA 7710 arms. But again to the point that stiffness isn't really the top objective, if everything is extremely rigid, any slight bobble in your pedaling (or any slight bobble on the track) can upset your speed. For someone who rides a lot, rigidity theoretically gives better power transmission but also beats you up. If you've ridden on most of the tracks in the US and on many Japanese tracks, you know that they aren't really this glass smooth surface that people think they are. You can wish for a softer saddle, softer wheels, and more comfort in your transmission system if you actually ride this stuff. It's one reason why track riders like more slack in their chain (see other posts on this issue).

    The Grand Mighty is an absolutely superb crankset and I love it. At 1600 watts it doesn't feel quite as stiff as a Dura Ace 7710, but it has a slight springiness that actually seems to help my pedal stroke at high cadence, just like a really nice steel frame has. A 75 doesn't feel noticeably stiffer, marginally less comfortable, and if I'm in a kilo start or something where I'm really applying the hardest effort I couldn't say it's as stiff as a 7710. Japanese like to buy what they buy but you'll also notice that in the UCI track world cup, the vast majority of riders are on a DA 7710 in nearly every event. I'd definitely say that the Superbe Pro crankarms are noticeably less stiff than others, to the point that I've had them actually clip the chainstays when pulling up in a start. If I was in a massed-start event, or riding the road, I actually like them. I happen to ride 7710s because I focus on sprint, team sprint, and 500m, and those are the highest power events, but also because they are the most common on the US and European tracks I ride the most, and it's important to be able to get parts, tools, etc. if you need them.

    I wouldn't sweat all this stuff so much. Frankly, nobody on a road fixie is going to be testing a set of crankarms to the limit and even if you were putting out a lot of watts, you still aren't in a race. This is a place to buy something you like, that's reliable, looks good, and is a price you can afford. It's like parts for your car -- buy according to your car and your usage.

  15. #15
    Senior Member parkerlewis's Avatar
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    Thanks 11.4....always appreciated.
    My NJS FRAMES and PARTS for sale now.... NJSFRAMES.BLOGSPOT.COM

  16. #16
    Mitcholo CrimsonKarter21's Avatar
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    11.4, thnaks for that

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