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Old 12-17-07, 06:04 PM   #1
splasher78
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36H DA7600 Hi flange/Araya gold strongest spoke pattern?

Hi all,
I've luckily acquired a NOS unlaced pair of 36H Dura ace hi flange hubs with new araya gold 16b tubulars to boot! Question is, what is the strongest spoke pattern for this wheelset? I will mainly be using the wheelset for track only, since I already have phils/cxp-30's for daily street riding/commuting. Although I am average weight (i think) 165-70 Lbs. I would like to ride the tubulars on the road once in a while. Keep in mind that I am a smooth rider i.e. no bunny hopping, skid stopping, mashing, etc. Even though I love that type of no holds-barred riding! Its just not my style... So back to the task at hand, what would be the strongest lacing pattern to withstand occasional outdoor road riding? Also, would the same spoke pattern be fine for the track. I've read elsewhere from the infamous '11.4' that he uses araya golds' for training on the track and that they are kind of weak when he pounded them with his fist to unmount the rim from sticky dropouts. What are your opinions? 3x? 4x? 3x/radial(rear)? radial(front)???
Thanks in advance,
MIKE

Last edited by splasher78; 12-17-07 at 06:47 PM. Reason: posted twice please delete one.
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Old 12-17-07, 08:46 PM   #2
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You didn't say whether the hubs were double-sided or single-fixed. If double-sided, you don't want to do any kind of asymmetrical lacing pattern on the rear because when you flip the wheel around, you'll be working around a compromised lacing pattern. Plus, unlike on road hubs, there isn't a lot of dish even on single-sided track hubs, so different lacings don't make too much sense.

You can only lace Araya 16B's up so tight before they start having problems, so there's not much point in going with 1x or 2x lacings on these hubs. On the other end, lacing 4X is nice and durable but actually makes the wheels a bit less stiff laterally so if you're doing sprints and that kind of thing, you will feel the rear wheel flex more. By simple attrition, we're left with 3X both sides, at least on the rear.

On the front, I've ridden plenty of radial-laced wheels. I can't say there's any viable data supporting the argument that radial lacing is more aerodynamic, but frankly it's about whatever you want to do on the front -- whatever floats your boat. NJS standards are 3X or 4X front, and 4X rear, but those are very dated standards and better wheels can be built these days. Realistically, for track racing here in the US, don't get waylaid by Japanese standards set in the '70s. I'd suggest a simple 3X front, but I wouldn't have problems riding 2X, 1X, or radial. If you do build them radial, put the spoke heads on the inside of the flange, just to get an extra few millimeters of effective spacing between spokes and each side. That just gives you a slightly stiffer wheel. While the subject is somewhat polemic, I'd suggest doing 2X or 3X and then tie-and-soldering the outermost crosses. Nothing much is going to change the rotational rigidity of the wheel, but you can do plenty to stiffen the wheel laterally -- which is important on the track.

Hope that works for starters.
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Old 12-17-07, 09:37 PM   #3
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36H DA7600 Hi flange/Araya gold strongest spoke pattern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11.4 View Post
While the subject is somewhat polemic, I'd suggest doing 2X or 3X and then tie-and-soldering the outermost crosses. Nothing much is going to change the rotational rigidity of the wheel, but you can do plenty to stiffen the wheel laterally -- which is important on the track.

Hope that works for starters.
May I say, WOW... 11.4 I wonder, how this site would be without your vast knowledge and expertise. The rear hub is fixed/fixed so you pretty much answered my question for the rear lacing pattern. As for the front, I am probably just going to lace a 3x and be done with it. Or I might be brave and try a 2x with tie/soldering. Depending on my manual skills this has yet to be determined. I need to do more research on that method. Just so I won't f*** anything up.
Much appreciated,
MIKE
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Old 12-18-07, 04:46 AM   #4
Mike T.
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Go with 3x all round. I've been building track wheels since the early '60s and have yet to see anything that is any better. For Tie & Solder, see my info page.
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Old 12-18-07, 07:49 AM   #5
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36H DA7600 Hi flange/Araya gold strongest spoke pattern?

Mike T,
You've made it that much easier. I am going to try the T&S method you provided and keep you posted on how it came out. Hopefully providing some pics.
THANKS
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Old 12-18-07, 01:32 PM   #6
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I don't know about soldering wheels, but with soldering wiring in cars, the beast and easiest way to solder is to lay the iron or gun down so it isn't touching the table you're working on, and then place the wire over the tip and let it heat up for 10-15 seconds, then, when the wire is hot enough, "paint" the wire with the solder while the wire is still on the tip. This method won't make drips, and it makes a neat, very strong solder. If your're using a few strands of copper wire, twist it all before you start wrapping the spokes (like a rope), it makes the solder stronger and tighter)
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Old 12-19-07, 05:11 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by splasher78 View Post
Mike T,
You've made it that much easier. I am going to try the T&S method you provided and keep you posted on how it came out. Hopefully providing some pics.
THANKS
Here's a pic -
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t-s 005.jpg (22.9 KB, 16 views)
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