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Old 06-26-08, 09:42 PM   #1
Jenkinsal2
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stamina training

I have just begun to get interested in track racing in our local sprint series. I know that I need to make some real improvement before I start traveling to a track. First, I am not really slow when classed against those i was racing with, but my sprints have little to no length. I can reach a speed keep up with a pack and attack but I cannot hold it because I have very little stamina. Through my reading the best I could come up with is to get a set of rollers or just get a lot of time in the saddle at a moderate pace. Is there anything else I can do to help improve my stamina?
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Old 06-27-08, 08:12 AM   #2
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Can't hold it as in you get dropped while sitting in at a constant pace or you can't match the multiple jumps or you can't stay off the front? Sprint series? Are these short scratch races?

Regardless:
Don't attack if you're having trouble staying in sit in till the very end.
Rollers are pretty much only good for base, leg speed and warming up. Can you not ride on the road for some reason?
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Old 06-27-08, 08:50 AM   #3
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No i can ride on the road but I figured with rollers i could ride without worrying about cars, stoplights, peds, ect. I could stay at the end of a pack the entire race but I run out of steam if i try to attack is what im saying. I cant sprint for very long before i run out of energy i guess is what im trying to say.
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Old 06-27-08, 03:50 PM   #4
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i just received my set of rollers yesterday. and i have this SAME exact issue lol. no stamina ftl
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Old 06-27-08, 08:44 PM   #5
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ditto on the stamina.

any prolonged effort beyond 1 lap kills me. 2 men half lap pulls are okay till we hit our second lap and then i have a really hard time drafting. anything longer than that second lap and i've been dropped. i can't even begin to think of doing flying 200s - heck, i'd be lucky if i broke 20 seconds.
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Old 06-27-08, 08:57 PM   #6
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I'm from richmond also and I'm interested in getting into racing...any info for me? I also have a long way to go before I am competitive...although I honestly have nothing to compare to an I only have like 2 friends who I've rode with before and one has only been riding as long as I have
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Old 06-27-08, 10:47 PM   #7
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I'm from richmond also and I'm interested in getting into racing...any info for me? I also have a long way to go before I am competitive...although I honestly have nothing to compare to an I only have like 2 friends who I've rode with before and one has only been riding as long as I have
As for richmond events that I know of right now: there is Go fast turn left track racing events put on at a local track. and then various alleycats i guess. If you want to start going on rides throw me a PM and maybe we can work out some type of training routine.I always have more fun when I have somebody to ride with.
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Old 06-28-08, 01:57 PM   #8
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www.vacycling.org

I think that there is only one more GFTL this year [which you guys should go to!]. There was also at least one more track race at the Langley speedway too. All the races have been fun. There's been talk of running a weekly series next year.

I ride on the road a lot, and I noticed that a lot of guys get tired near the end of the longer races. I'm no expert, but I would recommend trying some longer road rides (>20 miles), both slow and fast. That said, everyone is hurting at the end of the race And stamina is not as important in relatively short track races as in long road races.

The flying 200m is more a matter of discipline. You just have to convince yourself to suffer. I had tunnel vision at the end of the last one I did. "Stay on target".

http://www.bikereg.com/events/register.asp?eventid=6304
But get some experience of group riding first...
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Old 06-28-08, 02:00 PM   #9
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The flying 200m is more a matter of discipline. You just have to convince yourself to suffer.
wait till you do a kilo
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Old 06-30-08, 12:50 AM   #10
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A flying 200 is not about suffering at all. If your suffering in a 200 you arent fit. A kilo is the race to hurt in.


Sounds like the origonal poster needs to put in a serious amount of fitness. Start with base mileage on road, rollers. Lots and lots and lots and lots of miles. Progress into doing leg speed efforts and strenth efforts on the rollers or road. Most people have an easier time dealing with the miles than with doing conditoning work. It takes a serious mental toughness to block out pain while you dig yourself up that next hill faster than before, or stay tucked on the drops on too easy of a gear for anther kilometer.......in the rain.

Closer to race season do sprint oriented workouts.
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Old 07-01-08, 11:52 AM   #11
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silly question, but what kind of gearing are you running? you may want to go down a tooth or two until you build up your strength.
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Old 07-01-08, 12:39 PM   #12
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In a flying 200 you want to use a gear that you can make one hell of an acceleration on towards the timing line. Most guys average 150-155 RPM over the 200m but more often or not hit a very high peak speed and taper off a bit. Alot of guys are starting to use MASSIVE gears witch works if you can squat what Chris Hoy does.

In all honesty I Would stay light in the gearing for a while. Develop a great set of fast legs and kick your ass into shape while your at it. Strenth work can be done on the bike by over gearing. Most guys start their over gear work 2-3" above their race gear.

Last edited by CafeRacer; 07-01-08 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 07-01-08, 08:36 PM   #13
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yeah, that sounds like how we're told to do it at the clinics. those who opt to do a flying 200 in their warm up gear (88) then do the power exercises in a race gear (>88). having used the stock gearing on my bike (48x16) for a month i'm busted up enough just switching to 49x15 two weeks ago to even consider a 'race gear'.
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Old 07-06-08, 07:36 PM   #14
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Gearing is pretty much restricted to the strenth you have. If you cant squat 405 chances are you wont do very well sprinting on a 96-98" gear. The problem with alot of sprinters in the amature ranks is they are on way too big a gear for their own strenth. Witch leaves you open to beaing beaten every time unless your really really smart. Sure you dont race at 170-180 RPM on the track, but the ability to over speed like that on a lighter gear means you body will want to keep accelerating when your on your race gear and youll have the stamina/ speed endurance to win. There are many more tactics and ways to win if you can spin your ass off and quickly accelerate as apposed to running a massive gear when you shouldnt be.

To get stronger in that sence you need to do alot of gym work on a proper shedual around your races.

A perfect example of a rider who has very high leg speed and has won because of it is Ryan Bayley.
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Old 07-06-08, 08:10 PM   #15
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Ok so I started riding a little more and geared down a bit from 82 gear inches to around 72 and started spinning a bit more to work on leg speed. Im thinking about getting some rollers or a trainer in order to do intervals a little easier in the house whilie watching some tv or listening to music plus I wont have to worry about traffic/starting and stopping.

Would you reccomend a trainer or some rollers as the better investment as far as training purposes?
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Old 07-06-08, 09:20 PM   #16
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Are you running out of leg or lung?
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Old 07-06-08, 10:08 PM   #17
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well my legs get tired first but its because I am spinning so fast all the time.
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Old 07-07-08, 01:15 AM   #18
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You can do leg speed work on rollers or a turbo but its not as good as doing it on a track, or coming off of a big hill onto a long flat. Preferably where there is no risk of hitting a car. Anyone who knows me well is laughing right now......

72" is the kind of gear you would run if your riding your fixie around to get into shape for race season. If this is what you wanna do then you have the right idea. If your trying to train your final attack or flat out sprint leg speed than you need a differant approach.

82 is plenty light, "lighter gears" in a track riders frame of mind is in the mid 80s. In any sence you need to pick a gear thats going to allow you to make your legs go faster than they want to. Witch means you have to try to stay on top of the gear. Do one of the following a few nights a week.

Turbo/rollers. Warm up for 15 - 20 min X5 10 second rev ups to max cadence, 5 minuits or more recov.

Hill sprint. Find a road with a steep enough hil on it that you can roll up to a good speed, then sprint 50 meters to the bottom, and spin your ass off for 200m on flat road. IF you have to ride 25 min to get to a spot to do it perfect! do 4 of those with plenty recov time. 15-20 minuits. Pick a gear according to the hill, you may find as you do these your able to move up a couple inches. Please watch for drivways.....

On the track, flying 200's chasing a much faster rider on a bigger gear than you. X4 with plenty rest. Even if you get dropped by 100m keep going.

Most people when they start doing over speed work forget the principal. The idea is to smooth out your pedal stroke not continue to bounce on your saddle. If you have too, lower your saddle a touch.

Its amazing how much speed you can gain doing these. When I started working with my coach I didnt have enough time to spend a block in the gym to get any stronger so he just had me make my legs faster for the strengh I already had. Within 3 months I was going 4-5Km faster on the same gear leading into nationals. If you teach your legs early how to go that fast, it only takes one or two efforts a week to keep that. Most pro sprinters do an over speeding effort after their initial warm up to fire up the legs even more before they go up in gearing.
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Old 07-07-08, 05:44 AM   #19
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We have a huge hill here that I can bomb down with a large flat at the end. So Ill start hitting doing that drill a few times a week like you said then. Thanks!
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Old 08-11-08, 08:07 AM   #20
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this thread is full of great information =]

can anyone help me out with a quick Gi calc, i can't figure out sheldon's.

48/16
170mm cranks
700c wheels
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Old 09-12-08, 04:03 PM   #21
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Actually if you are looking to attack and hold it for many laps, a harder gear will make it easier to sustain. 72" is really low but is great for training yourself to spin or warm up. I'd recommend 88" for now which is about a 50/15 but keep in mind that people who plan on staying off the front for a long time will use a gear in the 90s. It's tough to spin at your max for very long. Sprinters will actually tend to use lower, easier gears because it is easier to accelerate at higher cadences. In events like the miss and out I like to gear my bike about 5" lower because of all the accelerating to get out of the back repeatedly.

If you're working on breaking away rather than sprinting, I guess you could do single digit lap efforts (flying start). Time yourself to make sure each lap takes the same time (which means power output is the same).

Your tactics might also need some help. If you attack when the pack is very bunched up and everyone is well-rested, it will be easy to chase you down. If everyone is strung out, it will be tough to come around and catch you. Try counterattacking after the pack catches a previous break. They will be tired from the effort of chasing and being strung out. Keep your head down and try not to look back too often. If you are going to get caught, go high on the track and use the bank to propel you back onto someone's wheel.

48/16 is 79 inches.
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Old 09-12-08, 08:26 PM   #22
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48/16 is 79 inches.
81 inches
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Old 09-16-08, 10:14 PM   #23
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Sprinters will actually tend to use lower, easier gears because it is easier to accelerate at higher cadences.

Not in my books...... Most club level or weekend racers in the mass start ranks tend to stick in the high 80's to low 90's for gearing. At a club level sprint night the gearing may stay that way but in most cases "sprinters" use bigger gears than mass start racers.
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Old 09-17-08, 04:51 AM   #24
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this thread is full of great information
+1

I read elsewhere too about overgearing as a beginner. I think I qualify as I am running whatever I had, i.e. a 50x15 (92" or so). Favors my non-spin style of sprinting I guess, but I get severely out jumped. My tactics also sucks, three guys pulled the same move on me in three different sprints, and I didn't learn. Now I know.

The whole gear selection thing is fascinating because, as I pointed out to a friend of mine, I am used to shifting multiple times in a sprint. Now I can't so I have to "run what I brung".

One of my saving graces is that I can't sprint hard (yet?) through the bend so I am forced to do a double jump - once on the back stretch, once on the front (318 meter track, shallow banking). I'm going to go tonight to the track (NE Velodrome) and see if I can't figure out how to go hard around the banking less than 10 feet from the inside edge. It would be nice to be able to sprint along the inside lane.

cdr
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Old 09-17-08, 06:32 PM   #25
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To the richmond folks-
Braden is working on setting up a track series similar to the Bryan park stuff that will take place in the spring and also in the fall. That's all the details that I've heard so far, but its promising news.
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