Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Converting Roller Leg Speed into Track Leg Speed

    Now that I've hit a pretty high cadence on the rollers, consistantly over 215rpm. How do I convert this or develop leg speed on the track? How and does this high leg speed transfer to the track?

    What do you guys think? I have a few limitations though. My local track is bump as hell. The other track that I go to is 3hours away, but I go most weekends for a day.

    1. I could do more efforts in a small gear on the track?
    2. I could use a bigger gear on the rollers to simulate a bit more load.
    3. I could try to work towards holding the cadence for longer. Say I started out with 12s efforts and increase the length by a second a week. In 8 weeks time hopefully I'd be able to hold 200rpm for 20 seconds.

    I'd like to think I can develop a plan that has some progression in it too.

  2. #2
    waste mangpress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    My Bikes
    work fix, play fix, dk 20", cruiser, ******* parts
    Posts
    278
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    sounds like you've got common sense, you'll be fine with your plan. =]

  3. #3
    Senior Member CafeRacer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    411
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rollers offer no resistance so your able to develop sick leg speed. Thats mostly nural. I would start doing your intervals on a trainer with some resistance so you can start to develop power. Mid 80's and enough resisnance to simulate flat ground. When your able to get the same RPM on a trainer, go up an inch or 2 in gearing....

  4. #4
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Orange County, California
    Posts
    508
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CafeRacer View Post
    Rollers offer no resistance so your able to develop sick leg speed. Thats mostly nural. I would start doing your intervals on a trainer with some resistance so you can start to develop power. Mid 80's and enough resisnance to simulate flat ground. When your able to get the same RPM on a trainer, go up an inch or 2 in gearing....
    Wind unit
    Mag unit
    Bigger gear
    Hell, a towel stuffed under one roller

  5. #5
    Senior Member CafeRacer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    411
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A bigger gear on rollers may not do much for resistance....... and in my experience if you use a massive gear and rev it up very very fast your rollers are only bouncing on the floor but the band can slip or snap. Rollers work best for warm ups and spining, if you wanna train properly use a trainer.

    PS. Ive seen a hotel towel under a roller work also, I also watched that towel start smoldering as a somone did a max rev out.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ithaca, NY
    My Bikes
    Honey Winterando (made by Seven), Litespeed Arenberg
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    converting leg speed from rollers to track

    Some suggestions:

    Gradually increase the gear by 1" to 2". Learn to pedal smoothly without bouncing at the higher cadences.

    Ride outside on track or preferrably on a straight road with either a tailwind or a slight downhill which goes to a slight uphill. You try to carry the speed from the downhill into the uphill to develop both speed and strength which converts to power. In Japan, they actually have tracks designed like this for Kerin riders. Use a gear of around 60-70" max.

    Keep the sprints short and work on short jumps to maximum speed.

    No Chain Sprints-you take the chain off the bike and leave on a trainer with just a cadence magnet on the crank. Top Australian sprinters back in the 90's were hitting close to 300 rpm. I had an athlete who was usually under 11 seconds for 200 meters who was doing around 260+. Do not do a lot of these since there is no resistance it really is more of a neuromuscular exercise.

    When working on leg speed once you can hold 155+ for 10-12 seconds outside, then move up in gear 1-2".

    You also need to do rolling sprints in a big gear, etc. You can have great leg speed, but you also need to be able to move a 90" gear or larger at around 150+ rpm to break 11 seconds.

  7. #7
    Senior Member gkelley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Eugene, Or
    Posts
    337
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Can't you just adjust resistance on rollers by letting air out or your tubes?

  8. #8
    not actually Nickatina andre nickatina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    OR
    Posts
    4,447
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes.

  9. #9
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    5,493
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Last year, I found low gear sprints on my road bike to be helpful. I was spending time sprinting in a 42 17 or 16.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  10. #10
    Senior Member melville's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    483
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    Last year, I found low gear sprints on my road bike to be helpful. I was spending time sprinting in a 42 17 or 16.
    Even that's a touch big. The classic winter road fixed gear is a 63: 42X18 or 39X17. Get it to 30 mph on the flats and you're doing roughly 160 rpm. Downhill, I always found I was smoother if I was applying power, and got it up to 35+ many times, or into the 200 rpm range.

    I was capable of similar and slightly higher rpm on the rollers.

    On the track I typically used an 86 or 88 gear and could get to 160 rpm in a sprint.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ste_S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Wolverhampton, UK
    Posts
    119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Don't forget you need to build leg strength as well to be able to turn your race gear at high revs, with the resistance from wind and the surface of the track.

    As another poster has suggested, try riding fixed on a rolling course on the road. Stay seated on the climbs to build strength and try to max out revs coming down the other side for speed. Experiment with gearing, bigger gear gives more strength work, smaller gear more speed. Try a 70"ish to start and work from there.

  12. #12
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    11,398
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitaitai Hitman View Post
    Now that I've hit a pretty high cadence on the rollers, consistantly over 215rpm. How do I convert this or develop leg speed on the track? How and does this high leg speed transfer to the track?
    Divide by 2.

    Like others have stated, there are so many other variables in-play on the track that aren't in-play on rollers.

    I'm not saying that you won't be fast on the track, but it's hard to tell.

    Check out post #10 in this thread where I hit 230 RPM on the stationary bike at the gym. My max cadence on the track is 145.

  13. #13
    is actually asian 4zn_balla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    My Bikes
    Leader
    Posts
    309
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No one can tell you what cadence your maximum output is at specifically. Experiment with gears and do some stop-watching.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    636
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A few points:

    1. Don't lower pressure on your tires on rollers. You can have a blowout on tubulars or a blowout plus popping the tire off the rim on clinchers. Consider how much the tire is being forced to flex around the roller and the fatigue that creates in the casing and the tread. If anything I usually recommend people go up in pressure on rollers, at least from regular road levels. Find other ways to increase resistance, such as a resistance unit of some kind (my favorite, the TruTrainer rollers with internal flywheel from www.trutrainer.com). And I don't recommend the towel under the rollers. I've seen it get caught up, then get caught in a wheel, with awkward results. You aren't going fast forward so you don't have any momentum to crash with, but you can slew sideways and fall crossways over your rollers and bang yourself (and your bike) up pretty well. And it's embarrassing.

    2. Take everybody's numbers and divide by two. Or at least reduce the number a bit. Very few people really ride the cadences they say they do on the track and most can't really do those on the rollers either. Even top World Cup riders who say they do a 200m sprint at 160 rpm, when you time them you only see about 135-145 rpm.

    3. The place to gain track speed is really on the track. The rollers help with neuromuscular training, and can be done in conjunction with free weights and other ways to build actual strength (seated hills, that kind of thing). But get on the track and start riding in a low gear. We usually do warm-ups with riders early season in a 77 to 81 inch gear, and those warm-ups start at 20 and accelerate in stages up to 28-30 mph. Then train in a 81-84 inch gear early on, then 84-88. Most world-class riders will tell you that in massed-start races they rarely ride over 90 inches, and the magical gear everyone seems to end up in is about 88 inches. Pro six-day riders nearly all use that gear, as do the top points and scratch riders. Sprinters and kilo riders may use a higher gear, but bear in mind that they lie like fiends about their gears to psych other riders out (and to psych themselves up). There are some big gears being used out there, but that's only for peak fitness and in very short (i.e., less than one minute) championship events. The day before and the day after, you'll find them riding a gear in the 80s. The point is that you don't have to worry about trying to do 145 rpm in a 102 inch gear.

    3. Not all riders are optimum at high cadence. They may have greater strength and less ability to spin. It just happens and it isn't necessarily a weakness. Figure out your fastest gearing combinations and then train with those in mind -- both to optimize your speed so you can win more and also to train your weaknesses (whether it's your strength or your leg speed).

    4. Training with both rollers and trainer is the best way to go indoors. Start on rollers to warm up and get your leg speed going, do some high-leg-speed workouts, the switch to the trainer and do some higher resistance efforts to build power and core stability. Then jump back on the rollers to unwind, relax your legs, and finally to cool down. If you can only afford one training method, though I'm a big fan of rollers (and they are important to have at the track), you will probably get more bang from a trainer than from rollers, at least for the first couple years. There are other ways to train cadence and cadence frankly improves faster with training than leg strength does. I know that goes against the grain, but that's the scientific evidence.

  15. #15
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    My Bikes
    TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
    Posts
    10,527
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    200+? Go slay your nearest Gold Sprint competition.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •