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  1. #1
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    Dura Ace 7600 vs. Sugino Grand Mighty

    Which cranks are better?

  2. #2
    not actually Nickatina andre nickatina's Avatar
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    Get DA 7710's or Truvativ Omniums.

    Trackies do a lot of stuff out of tradition but square taper is something IMO that doesn't need to be kept...

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    Plenty of people still ride square taper, so if you like it, go for it. Personally, I don't like Octalink from my experiences with the the road BB's (low miles before it's garbage), so my choice is a DA 7600 and Sugino 75 BB. Works quite well, and I'm certain there would be no measurable difference in speed between this and DA 7710. It will last a lifetime. No dis on the modern stuff, it also works. Go with what you like, it's all great.

  4. #4
    Fails at being impressed trelhak's Avatar
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    Omniums are a bad idea. The crankarms themselves are fine, but external bottom brackets are little more than marketing hype. They are a clever way to force you into buying a matching bottom bracket and crank set without being super-obvious about it.

    There's nothing wrong at all with square taper. If it were that bad, you wouldn't see a good percentage of professionals using it.

    Regarding the OPs actual question, though, I would pick the Dura Ace cranks if I had to choose.
    Grand Mightys are very, very good, but nothing comes close to the sheer rigidity of the Dura Ace cranks. If price and condition are the same, I'd go Dura Ace any day of the week.
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    The Great Britain Olympic team were using a mix of Shimano and Sugino.
    The Endurance riders (pursuit, team pursuit, points, madison) used Sugino Grand Mighty.
    The Sprinters used Dura Ace 7710.
    The Suginos are reckoned to be the roundest, the 7710s the stiffest.
    Make of that what you will, but Team GB could have whatever they wanted and if they didn't like what was available they could get their own made. That was what they chose.

  6. #6
    not actually Nickatina andre nickatina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trelhak View Post
    Omniums are a bad idea. The crankarms themselves are fine, but external bottom brackets are little more than marketing hype. They are a clever way to force you into buying a matching bottom bracket and crank set without being super-obvious about it.
    This is no more of a problem than the fact that buying Sugino 75's forces you to get an ISO bottom in the 109mm range or suffer an eventually deformed taper, or buying Octalink DA's and having the choice between one of 3 Shimano BB's. Besides, the external BB for the SRAM Omniums is $25 and from what I can tell so far breaks in quite nice.

    Also, I don't see how external is more than marketing hype when the entire road world has moved on to it. External BB's and BB30 setups make much more sense mechanically than the old school stuff in my opinion - larger bearings are a better thing... the road world may or may not move to BB30 as it's standard but for now external reigns supreme and is noticeably stiffer.

    Only real problem I've heard of with the Omniums / some external BB stuff is that you need to keep an eye on the non-drive crankarm as it occassionally has a tendency to loosen, but square taper stuff can loosen after the initial installation too.

    Oh, I'm not necessarily saying square taper is bad either, as I've had 75's, currently ride 7600's on the trainer/street bike and like them just fine. I just think a lot of the professional track world is kind of backwards if you compare it to the heavily R&D influenced road world, in that some things are done very much so out of tradition more than anything else (1/8" chains, 144 BCD, square taper cranks).
    Last edited by andre nickatina; 01-02-09 at 10:31 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by trelhak View Post
    Omniums are a bad idea. The crankarms themselves are fine, but external bottom brackets are little more than marketing hype. They are a clever way to force you into buying a matching bottom bracket and crank set without being super-obvious about it.

    Regarding the OPs actual question, though, I would pick the Dura Ace cranks if I had to choose.
    Grand Mightys are very, very good, but nothing comes close to the sheer rigidity of the Dura Ace cranks. If price and condition are the same, I'd go Dura Ace any day of the week.
    That's simply not true.

    a) Because there are aftermarket BB's that you can use, so you are not in fact limited to buying a Truvativ GXP BB, simply a GXP compatible BB, which is no different to buying almost any Italian square taper track crank and generally needing to buy a matching ISO BB, and in some obscure spindle length, 111mm Record anyone?

    b) Every lab test I've seen show eternal BB systems to be consistently stiffer (than square taper) when you measure deflection of the entire system. Predictably every person I know who's raced on Omniums say they the stiffest crankset they've used on a track bike and that includes myself and a bunch of National level guys.

    The reality is, from the perspective of the OP, that it's unlikely you'd notice any difference in performance at a particular price point from any of the major manufacturers. So if I was you, I'd simply look at whats available, whats the availability of a decent matching BB (and whats the cost and servicability of that BB, and do you need additional specific tools), whats the cost of the overall system, what matches your bike (for the record, every set of grand mightys I've seen with their soft gold finish, look crap with most black chainrings). From there I'd consider, Shimano, Sugino, Campag and Truvativ.

    Apart from the fact I've just scored two new sets of custom built CNC cranksets (one square taper, on a Sugino superlap BB, the other ext running Shimano compatible cups) for almost no cost via a sponsorship/testing arrangement, I'd be spending my hard earned $$ on Omniums, and it wouldn't even be a difficult decision.

  8. #8
    not actually Nickatina andre nickatina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideshow_bob View Post
    b) Every lab test I've seen show eternal BB systems to be consistently stiffer (than square taper) when you measure deflection of the entire system. Predictably every person I know who's raced on Omniums say they the stiffest crankset they've used on a track bike and that includes myself and a bunch of National level guys.
    Real talk. One of the deciding factors for me getting Omniums was that my match sprinting friend (Men's A cat, races at a National level) said he preferred them to DA 7710's in terms of stiffness. I've since recommended them to a few friends that have found them to be stiffer than they're old square taper setups as well. Either crank, 7710 or Omnium, is going to be inherently stiffer than square taper... it's not so much the stiffness of the material of the crank itself as it is the crankset/BB combination that matters. Sugino 75's are stiff running them on their equivalent BB or any other ISO with the same spindle length, but run them on a mis-matched JIS where they sit farther out on the spindle and you're losing some of the benefit. The way I see it, comparing square taper to external or BB30 is like comparing quill-style threaded stems to threadless in a way... larger diameters equal more stiffness and more opportunity for weight savings.

    Either way, looking at pro-level, 7710's seem to be the most popular though Octalink has been abandoned in the roadie world. Case in point, track technology, besides framesets and race wheels, seems to lag a decent amount behind the more R&D dominated road racing world.

  9. #9
    Fails at being impressed trelhak's Avatar
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    Your opinions aside then, "Dura Ace 7600 vs. Sugino Grand Mighty: Which cranks are better?"

    Q: Hey guys, which color bicycle do you prefer? red or blue?
    A: Get a green motorcycle. They are faster than either red or blue bicycles
    "Quäl dich, du Sau!" (trans.: "Suffer, you swine!") - Udo Bölts

    Storck | Ocean | SOMEC

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