Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-23-09, 06:15 PM   #1
Bowman
Bowman
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Media, PA
Bikes: Seven Alaris, Tiemeyer Custom Track
Posts: 7
CF vs. Ti

OK, here I go. Looking for a very stiff bike. Already have aluminum track. Looking at Calfee (Carbon fiber) and Merlin (Ti). Want the custom measurement which both offer. What builder of these two, in your opinion, will produce the better track bike?

BTW - I weigh approx. 250. Talk about crossing over several forums.

Thanks all.
Bowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-09, 08:52 AM   #2
melville
Senior Member
 
melville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 484
I knew of a rider about your size who, towards the end of his career, was picked up by a team that had Merlins for their road squad. They insisted on providing him with a Ti frame. By the time they had gotten him one he felt he could ride and feel secure on, the frame weighed POUNDS more than his previous steel frame.

You may find your thing in CF, but probably not in Ti. Ti bumps into the same tube diameter/wall thickness limits as steel when trying to make it light and rigid.
melville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-09, 10:48 AM   #3
andr0id
Senior Member
 
andr0id's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 2,000
If you really want the best custom track bike, talk to Tom Kellogg. If it can be done correctly in Ti, he will know how.
andr0id is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-09, 04:38 PM   #4
andre nickatina
not actually Nickatina
 
andre nickatina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: OR
Bikes:
Posts: 4,447
Carbon can build into a more aero frame...
andre nickatina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-09, 07:42 PM   #5
andr0id
Senior Member
 
andr0id's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 2,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by andre nickatina View Post
Carbon can build into a more aero frame...
Custom CF track bikes typically use round tubes just like Ti or steel.
The aero stuff is mass produced.
andr0id is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-09, 04:20 AM   #6
woodduck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: flatlands
Bikes: GT
Posts: 603
how tall are you? just wondering why you want custom. In Carbon there are some great stock bikes available that will be stiff enough for your weight.

BT stealth does come with a 59cm top tube.
woodduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-09, 02:04 PM   #7
Gyeswho
Utilitarian Boy
 
Gyeswho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Bikes: Check the sig to find out
Posts: 3,235
Tom Kellogg designed this and it's an absolute stiff monster, but very comfy on the road as well. I've not ridden a carbon so I can't say how it relates. It's not a superlight weight, but it so stiff and agile that it moves like a lighter frame. I'm 190lb and 5'11"
This is my street setup

Last edited by Gyeswho; 03-26-09 at 02:11 PM.
Gyeswho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-09, 10:16 PM   #8
andr0id
Senior Member
 
andr0id's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 2,000
Freakin' awesome. I'm insanely jealous.
andr0id is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-09, 02:24 PM   #9
Bowman
Bowman
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Media, PA
Bikes: Seven Alaris, Tiemeyer Custom Track
Posts: 7
Beautiful bike!! Thanks for all the good input.
Bowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-09, 01:49 PM   #10
Gyeswho
Utilitarian Boy
 
Gyeswho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Bikes: Check the sig to find out
Posts: 3,235
Thanks
Gyeswho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-09, 01:57 PM   #11
Meek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 516
CF. Why if Ti tends to be flexy on a road bike would you expect it to be stiff on a track bike? Furthermore most, if not all, world class (read extremely POWERerful) cyclists use CF frames. Makes it kind of obvious which one is superior for a stiff track frame...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowman View Post
OK, here I go. Looking for a very stiff bike. Already have aluminum track. Looking at Calfee (Carbon fiber) and Merlin (Ti). Want the custom measurement which both offer. What builder of these two, in your opinion, will produce the better track bike?
Meek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-09, 07:23 PM   #12
andr0id
Senior Member
 
andr0id's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 2,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meek View Post
CF. Why if Ti tends to be flexy on a road bike would you expect it to be stiff on a track bike?
Ti that's not built too light isn't flexy on a road bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meek View Post
Furthermore most, if not all, world class (read extremely POWERerful) cyclists use CF frames. Makes it kind of obvious which one is superior for a stiff track frame...
World class cyclists are sponsored. They ride whatever the sponsor is trying to sell to *YOU*. Sponsors aren't interested in selling you a Ti bike. Ti lasts too long and they want you to consider bikes a disposable commodity rather than a long term purchase.
andr0id is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-09, 07:57 PM   #13
bitingduck
Senior Member
 
bitingduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 3,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by andr0id View Post
World class cyclists are sponsored. They ride whatever the sponsor is trying to sell to *YOU*. Sponsors aren't interested in selling you a Ti bike. Ti lasts too long and they want you to consider bikes a disposable commodity rather than a long term purchase.
At least in the US, world class track riders are for the most part responsible for finding their own equipment- there's not a lot of full sponsorship floating around in the track world. They may get help in getting sponsorship, but it's not unusual to see people at world cups riding a frame that's not made by their road sponsor, and that they probably got before they got to the world cup level. They probably got some kind of sponsorship deal on it, but they may have paid some, too.

And as a racer, anything I'm on in a race is a disposable commodity. I've seen too much equipment destroyed to think otherwise.
__________________
Track - the other off-road
http://www.lavelodrome.org
bitingduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-09, 10:53 PM   #14
Six jours
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitingduck View Post
And as a racer, anything I'm on in a race is a disposable commodity. I've seen too much equipment destroyed to think otherwise.
I went to a world cup event at ADT a while back and was utterly shocked at how poorly the bikes held up in crashes. The last time I was at a world class track event everyone was still riding lugged steel and serious bike damage was extremely rare. But at the world cup event it seems like every time there was a fall you'd see broken forks bouncing down the track, handlebars headed in the other direction, fragments of carbon rims flying around... I was flabbergasted.

All of which is a long way of suggestion that the average track racer either buy a steel frame and standard wheels, or take out a line of credit.
Six jours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-09, 11:01 PM   #15
bitingduck
Senior Member
 
bitingduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 3,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
I went to a world cup event at ADT a while back and was utterly shocked at how poorly the bikes held up in crashes. The last time I was at a world class track event everyone was still riding lugged steel and serious bike damage was extremely rare. But at the world cup event it seems like every time there was a fall you'd see broken forks bouncing down the track, handlebars headed in the other direction, fragments of carbon rims flying around... I was flabbergasted.

All of which is a long way of suggestion that the average track racer either buy a steel frame and standard wheels, or take out a line of credit.
I've seen steel frames break, too, and it's getting harder and harder to find someone who can fix them economically. Aluminum seems like a better budget choice-- you can replace it for about what it takes to replace a tube and repaint a steel frame.

My super-heavy steel Pinarello has survived some pretty hard crashes, but they also laughed at me at weigh-in... Some of the CF bikes hold up quite well in crashes-- I've seen some Looks and BTs go down very hard and come up fine-- they're also not lightweight. The Mavic wheels seem pretty fragile, though.
__________________
Track - the other off-road
http://www.lavelodrome.org
bitingduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-09, 11:03 PM   #16
Meek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 516
Ummm.. World Class Track cycling is meausred in 0.001 sec and is worth personally many $$$ or Euros etc to riders that don't have large contracts. You ride either what you are sponsored by or "REBADGE" your own CF or Ti bike and have your sponsors name on it. If personal $$ and world records are on the line you ride the fastest bike...period!

Quote:
Originally Posted by andr0id View Post
World class cyclists are sponsored. They ride whatever the sponsor is trying to sell to *YOU*. Sponsors aren't interested in selling you a Ti bike. Ti lasts too long and they want you to consider bikes a disposable commodity rather than a long term purchase.
Meek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-09, 11:06 PM   #17
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,015
There are a few high-end "white label" bike manufacturers out there. I own a Shaklee Team bike that has "Marin" stickers all over it. Marin doesn't make track bikes and they didn't even make this one special for the team. They just outsourced it to Billato in Italy.



On a related note, I played on the JR tennis circuit in HS around the same time that Andre Aggasi became popular. He played with Prince racquet all his career until he got sponsored by Head (I think). The thing is, Head didn't make a racquet that Aggasi liked. So, until the Head engineers made him a racquet that he liked he played with a Prince with Head logos.

Most manufacturers see the racer's bike as ad space more so than showing off their wares. I'm sure that most spectators didn't know that the bike above wasn't made by Marin.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:17 PM.