Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-28-10, 02:56 PM   #1
Keith99
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maximum speed

Elsewhere on this board someone claimed a relative did 50 MPH on flat ground, no wind.

Everyone pretty much agreed that was rubbish. But none of us came up with any data for elite cyclists on non-fared bikes. My search came up with lots of results, for HPV records, but that is far different from a normal bike.

Then I remembered that some track events are short and I'm pretty sure some are flying start.

I'm hoping someone can provide a link of 2.

Thanks in advance.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 04:31 PM   #2
melville
Senior Member
 
melville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
Elsewhere on this board someone claimed a relative did 50 MPH on flat ground, no wind.

Everyone pretty much agreed that was rubbish. But none of us came up with any data for elite cyclists on non-fared bikes. My search came up with lots of results, for HPV records, but that is far different from a normal bike.

Then I remembered that some track events are short and I'm pretty sure some are flying start.

I'm hoping someone can provide a link of 2.

Thanks in advance.
Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go7iec-PS1Y

Theo Bos setting the world record in the flying 200 at 9.772 seconds, or about 46mph.
melville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 04:33 PM   #3
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,129
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Look for "Flying 200M" times and average speeds. These are the times/speeds the rider traveled the last 200M of the event.

The current world record is 9.572" held by Kevin Sireau (FR).

This means that he traveled 200M is 9.572". His average speed was 75.22KPH or 46.74MPH. This was the average speed of the run. I would guess that he hit a peak speed around 48 or 49mph.

Here is a terrible amateur video of the record:

Here is a better example of a previous world record setting run by Theo Bos (NED)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.

Last edited by carleton; 12-28-10 at 04:40 PM.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 04:39 PM   #4
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,129
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
For other really fast times, here are the results for the Flying 200M (the qualifying event for the Men's Sprint event) at the 2009 UCI World Championships.

http://www.tissottiming.com/sports/c...ng_Results.pdf
Note: Theo Bos is listed as the World Record holder on the top of the page because he was at the time of the event.

This was found here: http://www.tissottiming.com/sports/c...2009/index.htm

EDIT:

I just realized I linked to the 2009 WC.

Here is the 2010 WC: http://www.tissottiming.com/sports/c...2010/index.htm
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.

Last edited by carleton; 12-28-10 at 04:52 PM.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 05:02 PM   #5
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,129
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
Elsewhere on this board someone claimed a relative did 50 MPH on flat ground, no wind.

Everyone pretty much agreed that was rubbish. But none of us came up with any data for elite cyclists on non-fared bikes. My search came up with lots of results, for HPV records, but that is far different from a normal bike.

Then I remembered that some track events are short and I'm pretty sure some are flying start.

I'm hoping someone can provide a link of 2.

Thanks in advance.
I would imagine that the "50MPH" claim was either a fish tale or computer error. We've all had computers give erroneous values. For basic computers, all it takes is for one bad reading to turn 25MPH into 50MPH for a split second and that 50MPH will stick as the Max Speed for the entire ride.

To put things into perspective, most regional/national level sprinters can hit 40+ mph. But there is a BIG difference between 40MPH and 46MPH.

Mark Cavendish:
"The top speed I've ever done in a sprint has been clocked at 78kph (49.01mph) and I think that's the fastest ever in a sprint,"
http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/me...rMMQnohd7gaFkQ
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-10, 10:06 AM   #6
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 11,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
From those track efforts, it's hard to tell how that compares to riding on the flats. It looks like they're going as high as they can on the banked curve, then dropping off of it and staying off of it to make their 200m run.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
StephenH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-10, 10:37 AM   #7
melville
Senior Member
 
melville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
From those track efforts, it's hard to tell how that compares to riding on the flats. It looks like they're going as high as they can on the banked curve, then dropping off of it and staying off of it to make their 200m run.
Exactly, and the reason why I posted a video link--so the OP can decide if this is comparable. Coming off the bank is quite a boost. For that matter, just dropping the width of the pole lane helps out on the homestretch.
melville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-10, 10:41 AM   #8
twobadfish
Riding
 
twobadfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Bend, Oregon
Bikes: Motobecane Fantom Cross Pro; Motobecane Nemesis Pro
Posts: 1,603
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I would imagine that the "50MPH" claim was either a fish tale or computer error. We've all had computers give erroneous values. For basic computers, all it takes is for one bad reading to turn 25MPH into 50MPH for a split second and that 50MPH will stick as the Max Speed for the entire ride.
He was also using a GPS-based app on his Android phone.
twobadfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-10, 12:10 PM   #9
Kayce
Senior Member
 
Kayce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: St Louis
Bikes:
Posts: 1,846
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just from personal experience and testing different lines, Ive had up to a second and a half difference in 200 times from an ok line to a really good line around the track, so the backing makes quite a difference.
Kayce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-11, 07:49 PM   #10
clink83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
. My search came up with lots of results, for HPV records.
OMG the doctor told me those test results were private!
clink83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-11, 10:57 PM   #11
Hezz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by melville View Post
Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go7iec-PS1Y

Theo Bos setting the world record in the flying 200 at 9.772 seconds, or about 46mph.
I think that pretty well substantiates that the "relative" or "Lemond could do" 50 mph on the flat as rubbish. A track surface is faster than tarmac or asphalt and there is no wind in an indoor velodrome. So if the world's best who train full time and specialize in sprinting can only do 46-47 MPH average over 200 meters with a flying start. IT pretty much says that is the upper limit of current human ability. There have probably been a few road race sprints over 50 mph in the history of road racing because there happened to be a strong tail wind at the same time. But I imagine those have been pretty rare.

I can't see any human sprinting over 48 mph unless they have a very strong tail wind or are lead out by a motor cycle or something at 40 mph or so and on a straight sprint which might be a little faster than doing it on an oval track. Assuming the same surface friction and wind conditions.

It is possible that with ideal conditions a road sprint with several riders moving for position could have a psychological effect that could increase speed to some degree. Also, there could be more broken air streams for a sprinter to get into when coming from behind.

Last edited by Hezz; 02-02-11 at 11:27 PM.
Hezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-11, 02:20 AM   #12
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,129
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hezz View Post
I think that pretty well substantiates that the "relative" or "Lemond could do" 50 mph on the flat as rubbish. A track surface is faster than tarmac or asphalt and there is no wind in an indoor velodrome. So if the world's best who train full time and specialize in sprinting can only do 46-47 MPH average over 200 meters with a flying start. IT pretty much says that is the upper limit of current human ability. There have probably been a few road race sprints over 50 mph in the history of road racing because there happened to be a strong tail wind at the same time. But I imagine those have been pretty rare.

I can't see any human sprinting over 48 mph unless they have a very strong tail wind or are lead out by a motor cycle or something at 40 mph or so and on a straight sprint which might be a little faster than doing it on an oval track. Assuming the same surface friction and wind conditions.

It is possible that with ideal conditions a road sprint with several riders moving for position could have a psychological effect that could increase speed to some degree. Also, there could be more broken air streams for a sprinter to get into when coming from behind.

Did you see this above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Mark Cavendish:
"The top speed I've ever done in a sprint has been clocked at 78kph (49.01mph) and I think that's the fastest ever in a sprint,"
http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/me...rMMQnohd7gaFkQ
(Turn your volume down. Terrible music in this vid)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.

Last edited by carleton; 02-03-11 at 02:24 AM.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-11, 10:14 AM   #13
danilo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wow he's fast...
danilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-11, 11:04 AM   #14
chas58
Senior Member
 
chas58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Bikes: too many of all kinds
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
fast, and an amazingly slow cadence. He must be doing, what, 50 RPM?
chas58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-11, 02:47 PM   #15
oban_kobi
Senior Member
 
oban_kobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: California
Bikes: Trek 7.2 FX, Custom Vintage FG
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Seemed more like 70 to me. I swear some of the roadies here do 50 though. Blows my mind how their knees aren't blown out.
oban_kobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-11, 01:43 AM   #16
JMR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oban_kobi View Post
Seemed more like 70 to me. I swear some of the roadies here do 50 though. Blows my mind how their knees aren't blown out.
He's actually turning around 120RPM... I counted 17 revolutions for the last 8 seconds of his sprint = 2.1 revs per second or a bit over 120 RPM.

JMR
JMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-11, 04:49 PM   #17
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,129
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMR View Post
He's actually turning around 120RPM... I counted 17 revolutions for the last 8 seconds of his sprint = 2.1 revs per second or a bit over 120 RPM.

JMR
That's probably right!

According to a gear calculator, assuming he's riding a 53/11 gear ratio, at 120RPM he is going around 46mph/74kph.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-12, 10:23 AM   #18
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,129
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Chris Hoy reported that he hit 78.1kph (48.5mph) in this London World Cup 2012 keirin final:

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-15, 02:45 PM   #19
Lenbrazil
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Olinda, Brazil
Bikes: Focus Black Forrest 3.0 2013, Caloi Sprint 2010, Caloi ????
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by twobadfish View Post
He was also using a GPS-based app on his Android phone.
This reading came from a friend of mine's "GPS-based app on his Android phone" from a ride we did on a pretty grueling trail. "Velocid Max" is Max. Velocity of course, 143.3KPH = 89.0 MPH. There were some nice downhill portions but my top speed was about 45 - 50 KPH (25 - 30 MPH) and no he was never 3 - 4x faster than me.

Lenbrazil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-15, 05:17 PM   #20
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,129
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenbrazil View Post
This reading came from a friend of mine's "GPS-based app on his Android phone" from a ride we did on a pretty grueling trail. "Velocid Max" is Max. Velocity of course, 143.3KPH = 89.0 MPH. There were some nice downhill portions but my top speed was about 45 - 50 KPH (25 - 30 MPH) and no he was never 3 - 4x faster than me.

GPS data has the worst accuracy.

You can stand completely still, and a GPS head unit will report that you are moving at 30mph/48kph!! I've seen it happen. This happened to me when my by was laying against a wall as I rested.

I would not be impressed by such. If anything, I'd be annoyed that my device was recording bad data.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-15, 05:42 PM   #21
chas58
Senior Member
 
chas58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Bikes: too many of all kinds
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Olá Lenbrazil. Bom Dia


There is a video out there of some of your country men drafting a truck at 124km/hr, bu t I think that is a little off subject for a velodrome discussion.


Tenha um ótimo dia !
chas58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-15, 06:57 PM   #22
dunderhi
Senior Member
 
dunderhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Lost in the Mid-Atlantic Track Triangle
Bikes: No 22 Little Wing, Pinarello XTRACK, Argon18 Electron Pro, Schwinn Paramount
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
Olá Lenbrazil. Bom Dia


There is a video out there of some of your country men drafting a truck at 124km/hr, bu t I think that is a little off subject for a velodrome discussion.


Tenha um ótimo dia !
In my younger days, my teammates & I used to do organized motor-pacing training on a section of straight flat road hitting up to 65mph our track bikes. We didn't rely on a computer or GPS back then, but we had a clear view of the car's speedometer. A propped-up hatchback meant we could communicate with the driver, so it wasn't as dangerous as it may have sounded.
dunderhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-15, 07:28 PM   #23
gtrob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Ontario
Bikes: T1, S2, P3
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
In my younger days, my teammates & I used to do organized motor-pacing training on a section of straight flat road hitting up to 65mph our track bikes. We didn't rely on a computer or GPS back then, but we had a clear view of the car's speedometer. A propped-up hatchback meant we could communicate with the driver, so it wasn't as dangerous as it may have sounded.
When is doing 65mph without brakes or coast ever dangerous though
gtrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-15, 07:42 PM   #24
Oldan Slo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
When is doing 65mph without brakes or coast ever dangerous though
This was back before everyone else was texting and driving.
Oldan Slo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-15, 07:55 PM   #25
dunderhi
Senior Member
 
dunderhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Lost in the Mid-Atlantic Track Triangle
Bikes: No 22 Little Wing, Pinarello XTRACK, Argon18 Electron Pro, Schwinn Paramount
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldan Slo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
When is doing 65mph without brakes or coast ever dangerous though
This was back before everyone else was texting and driving.
So very true, but being six inches away from something with gears and brakes at 65 mph is more than enough to put this trackie on high alert. The only avoidance manuever was to swing out into the wind, which was a bit of an experience on its own.
dunderhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:02 PM.