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Japanese Keirn Question

Old 02-28-07, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CafeRacer
Ceya: you got your stats wrong....



Bostontrevor: It's not that difficult to get the approval if its built to spec. Chris Hoy and Craig Mclean both rode NJS approved Dolan's, All the frenchmen rode bikes built by Look, Curt Harnett rode an approved Gardin. Weather or not Theo's bike was built by Koga or not it was approved also.

Where did you get yours? 10 yrs Nakano won.

Which sprint also? They had different sprints also.

Ok I found where you got your info.. He was 10 yr PRO Sprint , not Keirin .

Also look at my post and see point #3 and what I was responding to as to BostonTrevor's question..

-------------------------
1982 Leicester (GBR)

EVENT - DISTANCE TIME - 00:00.00 1st GOLD (NATION) 2nd SILVER (NATION) 3rd BRONZE (NATION)

PROFESSIONAL SPRINT 200-M ---- Koichi Nakano (JPN) Gordon Singleton (CAN) Yav� Cahard (FRA)

PROFESSIONAL KEIRIN ---- Gordon Singleton (CAN) Danny Clark (AUS) Turu Kitamura (JPN)


S/F,
CEYA!

Last edited by Ceya; 03-01-07 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 02-28-07, 02:36 PM
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I think Japanese athletes in general tend to do poorly at the Olympics. For such a wealthy country, they should rank up there with Germany and the USA. But looking at the medal count, that's never been the case.

Part of it is cultural. There seems to be an undercurrent of "You made it to the Olympics, that's good enough", and as a result I think many Japanese Olympic athletes don't really try to get gold. I mean, for Olympic gold you gotta give 110%, and maybe some athletes are only giving 98%. Also, Japan is such a Japanese-centric culture, and glory in the international arena is short-lived and doesn't mean that much to them (IMHO). Tis strange for a country so fanatical about sports.
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Old 02-28-07, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by OB1knobe
Gord retired too, in total disgust, and went home to manage his father's tire business in St. Catharines where he still is. If you're ever out riding in the Niagara region on the Canadian side, you could run into Gord out on a ride. Don't challenge him to a sprint though, unless you're really fast.
And he still races at the Forest City Velodrome in London Ont where he holds the lap record. Yes he's still a great sprinter (2006 World masters champion) and regular winner at the FCV against many riders less than half his age. Just ask Caferacer in this thread!
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Old 03-01-07, 12:57 PM
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I havent raced him in a few months but yes. There is only way I could beat him in a match. GO LONG! The guy has eyes on the back of his head. But thats why he's coaching me

Ceya: The origional stats you posted I thought were for the Keirin, I just re-looked at see they're for the sprints. My bad! Theres video of that Keirin on youtube now. Its a rough one! Technicly It should say Singleton in first for the sprints also. Nakano purly won by default and because he in my opinion and others purposly crashed Singleton.

Gordo for Priminister!
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Old 03-02-07, 07:19 PM
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Wow, this was a good thread. I just looked up Koichi Nakano's video's again Gordon Singleton on youtube (just type in 'Koichi Nakano' and you'll get all three rounds of that race). Brutal, brutal stuff. Awesome though.
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Old 03-06-07, 11:50 PM
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What the hell was Nakano doing in the first heat? He passes Singo on the right, then looks over his right shoulder and moves down. He had him beaten anyway.

The crash in final race was Singleton's fault though. Too many people blame Nakano for that crash just because Singleton comes off worst out of it.

That must have been just about the only world championship ever won on a Suntour Superbe Pro equipped bike. (But not the only major race - the 1984 Olympic road race was won by Alexi Grewal on a Suntour equipped Pinarello).

Nakanos bike was:
Frame/fork: Nagasawa
Headset: Hatta (I believe)
Rims: Araya Super Aero
Spokes: 36 hole 3x (Hoshi?)
Hubs: Suntour Superbe Pro
Cranks, chainring, bb: Suntour Superbe Pro
Seatpost: Nitto
Bars/stem: Nitto
Toe clips: MKS
Seat: Kashimax Gold Star
Tyres: 20mm. Not Soyos. Maybe Panaracer?
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Old 03-07-07, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by oldsprinter
The crash in final race was Singleton's fault though. Too many people blame Nakano for that crash just because Singleton comes off worst out of it.
Your country of origin say it all. Heck I wouldn't want to say who was at fault after seeing those races live on TV originally and watching these vid clips. None of us can see the racers head-on so we don't know what happened.

I ride on the same track as Gord and know him well but I wouldn't have an opinion, after watching the clips, as to who was in the right or wrong.
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Old 03-07-07, 04:34 PM
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If you want to make your own mind up on the 1982 Nakano v Singleton sprint final click on the links below

Round 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY78yS0sjbQ

Round 2/re-run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzLdyxDSK2I

Round 3 - The final crash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx_5pQSWdRY
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Old 03-08-07, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
I have read that the top Japanese Pros view the Olympics in the same way as American major league baseball players: kid stuff that ain't worth the time. Baseball sent minor league players to the Olympics. And Japan sent minor league bike riders to the Olympics.

Japanese bike racing is open to any Australian rider who is good enough. None have been good enough.
Alan - you are a muppet. Top of the podium.

Gary Neiwand won the keirin circuit 3 times on a custom 3rensho.


Jobke Dajka has also done well there.

How's the view in cuckoo cloud land?
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Old 03-08-07, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by mrwhite
Gary Neiwand won the keirin circuit 3 times on a custom 3rensho.
If I spent enough time I'm sure I could come up with a few Brits who are "good enough" to race in Japan (McLean at the very least and for two seasons), some 'Merricans (didn't Nothstein race the Keirin circuit?) and maybe Canadian Harnett was there too. Plus there were probably a few Euros.

One resource says there are eight foreigners invited each year.
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Old 03-09-07, 04:00 AM
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Every April foreigners race in Japan. Shane Kelly has also raced in Japan. Also Josiah Ng and many more.

Qualifying times to become a keirin racer are 1.10 for the kilo and 11 seconds for 200m. Those times are not that great.
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Old 03-09-07, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mrwhite
Alan - you are a muppet. Top of the podium.

Gary Neiwand won the keirin circuit 3 times on a custom 3rensho.


Jobke Dajka has also done well there.

How's the view in cuckoo cloud land?
Mr White - that bike looks a little big for Gary. Did he have to ride it with the seat quite low?
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Old 03-09-07, 05:40 AM
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Yes there are 8 international riders invited to race the keirin series each year. HOWEVER, they are invited to ride a special series for them and a number of selected Japanese riders, they do not ride in the general keirin series.
Those Japanese riders who ride against the internationals are not necessarily the best Japanese keirin riders. The best riders generally ride in the main circuit because that's where the bigger prizes are!

There may well be a change in attitudes from the Japanese riders regarding world/olympics in the next few years. Frederic Magne (from France, 3 times world keirin champ) has recently been appointed to the top coaching job in Japan on a long term contract (6 years?). He's had great success as track coach at the UCI sprint school in Aigle and insiders reckon he is already starting to make a difference over in Japan. Given that Japan has a huge pool of keirin riders for Magne to train and select from we could well be seeing Japanese riders starting to really challenge at world level in the next few years.
Will be interesting to see if it happens or not!
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Old 03-09-07, 08:03 AM
  #39  
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To answer the OP the keirin doesn't seem so different than other track disciplines. Japanese who ride it year-long don't have such an advantage - the strategy for positioning and attacking seems pretty much the same as other events.
 
Old 03-09-07, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Richard Kennedy
Yes there are 8 international riders invited to race the keirin series each year. HOWEVER, they are invited to ride a special series for them and a number of selected Japanese riders, they do not ride in the general keirin series.
Those Japanese riders who ride against the internationals are not necessarily the best Japanese keirin riders. The best riders generally ride in the main circuit because that's where the bigger prizes are!

There may well be a change in attitudes from the Japanese riders regarding world/olympics in the next few years. Frederic Magne (from France, 3 times world keirin champ) has recently been appointed to the top coaching job in Japan on a long term contract (6 years?). He's had great success as track coach at the UCI sprint school in Aigle and insiders reckon he is already starting to make a difference over in Japan. Given that Japan has a huge pool of keirin riders for Magne to train and select from we could well be seeing Japanese riders starting to really challenge at world level in the next few years.
Will be interesting to see if it happens or not!
Richard, if you're the British rider I think you are, I know you know your track racing BUT, I have heard so often about these mythical "best riders" of keirin, some even say Nakano wasn't the best in Japan, but, if so, why haven't we seen them set world records, world Olympic sprint (team) records, kilometer records? They wouldn't even need to leave Japan - just go to the Kokura indoor wooden velodrome.

When the internationals ride in Japan (they now invite 9 riders) they face Japanese national team riders, guys like Toshinobu Saito (who can ride a 10.4 second 200m), Kojima Keiji (www.kojimakeiji.net), Ota Shin-Ichi, Keiichiro Yaguchi and Toshiaki Fushimi, and these guys are or were ranked in the top 15 in the world, a few much higher.

So the riders who can't be bothered taking two weeks out of keirin racing to go and win a world title or race against internationals - where are they? If they're better than guys who can get top 10 at the worlds, they must be mighty quick. Admittedly, Terufumi Sakakieda (10.7 - 200m), who is very quick, didn't ride the International series and Shinichi Gokan was a fast and canny rider - but I think, in general, the riders who line up against the internationals are the best, if not close to the best, in Japan.

I'm not saying I know the best riders don't race in the international scene - the keirin world here is hard to know well - but it would be a surprise to find more than 2 or 3 riders better than the ones who race (and beat) guys like Bos, Bayley and Neiwand.

And get_nuts at the risk of sounding like I'm disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, I think the rigid structure of Japanese keirin racing holds Japanese riders back. Having to choose to ride senko,
makuri, oikona or mak and having to tell people what you will do, then doing this week in week out for months stops a rider being able to respond quickly when riding outside of Japan.

Whew! Rants over.
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Old 03-09-07, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by oldsprinter
Mr White - that bike looks a little big for Gary. Did he have to ride it with the seat quite low?
On fyxomatosis.com, Mr.White says that that Rensho is currently set up for someone else. Gary doesn't ride the bike anymore hence the wonky setup.
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Old 03-09-07, 02:07 PM
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Japanese keirin has some differences from International keirin that make it hard to succeed in both. Japanese keirin is raced on 400 meter tracks so the tactics are different. I think there is more collusion in japanese keirin whereas on the int'l circuit you're pretty much on your own with only 6 guys out there. Not to mention the japanese guys probably do okay just racing keirin; they don't really NEED int'l whereas the foreigners use int'l success to get invited to Japan so they can make money. The Japanese are already there.
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Old 03-12-07, 10:41 PM
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this thread has been great
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Old 03-20-07, 06:40 PM
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I raced in Japan twice at the Tokushima circuit.


It was Sports Day.


We rode one at a time & were timed in the 200m sprint, 1k & 2k.


Ignore everything I say. I'm a seppo.......
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Old 03-22-07, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by lubes17319
I raced in Japan twice at the Tokushima circuit.


It was Sports Day.


We rode one at a time & were timed in the 200m sprint, 1k & 2k.


Ignore everything I say. I'm a seppo.......
Times please.

By the way - that's pretty cruel making you ride a kilo, then making you line up for a 2km. I need about a year off the bike after riding a kilo. Horrible event.
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Old 03-23-07, 11:15 AM
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[QUOTE=oldsprinter]Times please.[QUOTE]

Komatsushima track, sorry.
Did both of these on a buddies roadie. Just chose a big gear & wheeled with it.

2002:
200m = 14.41"
1k = cancelled due to rain
2k = 3'14.74"

2003:
200m = don't have time
1k = 1'24.41"
2k = 3'04.06"

Begin laughing & taunting me now............


ALso hit up the Shimano 'Suzuka' Road Race in 2004. Horrible results there...a little too much time in izakayas & sushiyas & not enuff on the bike.

Last edited by lubes17319; 03-24-07 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 03-24-07, 05:27 AM
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Nothing wrong with a 1.24 on a borrowed road bike. And a 3 minute 2km after riding a kilo flat out is good going, too.
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Old 03-24-07, 11:48 AM
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I almost took the mamacheri I rode to the track out for fun.
Times on that woulda REALLY sucked.
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Old 04-01-07, 04:49 AM
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Great keirin pic : https://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...tc072/IMG_1120
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Old 04-11-07, 08:11 PM
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I have lived in japan and my wife is Japanese and I go all the time. When the olympics come around they go nuts for it. The Marathon, judo, ice skating etc...Anyone who wins gold will be a star and get fat endorsements deals. One of the best ping pong girls in the world is Japanese and she is always one TV. If a Keirin rider could win gold...he would be out there I think.

I may be wrong but the Japanese Keirin track is much bigger no? A few years ago I know all the top track cyclist from around the world did a Keirin tour in japan. I wonder how well they did on Nihon no turf. Someone know?
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