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Old 08-08-12, 03:10 PM   #2726
carleton
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Are bolt-on cogs used on track at all? If not, do you think they'll be? If not, why so?
No.

They don't solve any problems while creating 2:

1) They will develop slack or "play" in them.

2) They will take a very long time to change when it's time to change cogs during training/racing, which happens fairly often. A racer could change cogs up to 4 times a session (16t for warmup, 14 and 13t for racing, 16t for cool-down).

So, why bother? If the current system aint' broke, don't fix it.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 08-08-12, 04:43 PM   #2727
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No.

They don't solve any problems while creating 2:

1) They will develop slack or "play" in them.

2) They will take a very long time to change when it's time to change cogs during training/racing, which happens fairly often. A racer could change cogs up to 4 times a session (16t for warmup, 14 and 13t for racing, 16t for cool-down).

So, why bother? If the current system aint' broke, don't fix it.
Why would they develop slack or play?

Metal bending on the cog or?

Just curious if you've had experience with or know of it as a common problem
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Old 08-08-12, 07:52 PM   #2728
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Why would they develop slack or play?

Metal bending on the cog or?

Just curious if you've had experience with or know of it as a common problem
No, I've never used such a hub. That's what I've learned from reading posts of those who have.

My second point above is actually more important than the first. Even if play takes time to develop, changing cogs will be a pain in the butt.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 08-08-12, 09:12 PM   #2729
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Carleton, what makes jason kenney faster than the guys that have hulking quads?
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Old 08-08-12, 10:34 PM   #2730
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Carleton, what makes jason kenney faster than the guys that have hulking quads?
Muscle mass is only one of many factors.

Look at Victoria Pendleton vs Olga Panarina. Pendleton has relatively skinny legs. She looks more like a model than a sprint athlete...but she's faster than most.



And in the Keirin she's faster than all.

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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 08-09-12, 06:56 AM   #2731
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pendleton is definitely a monster too, and she makes it look so easy.
it always surprises me when i see a matchup like kenney vs bauge and kenney just pulls away at the end not even stressing out.
do they have a cleaner technique than most? ive only really been following track for a couple months so i dont know everything about it but its damn cool
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Old 08-09-12, 07:57 AM   #2732
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pendleton is definitely a monster too, and she makes it look so easy.
it always surprises me when i see a matchup like kenney vs bauge and kenney just pulls away at the end not even stressing out.
do they have a cleaner technique than most? ive only really been following track for a couple months so i dont know everything about it but its damn cool
It could be one of many things...or a combination of many things. I know that sounds vague, but there is no easy answer. There is SO much that goes into creating an athlete like Kenny, Bauge, Hoy, Pendleton, etc...

- Training (bike and weight room)
- Diet
- Supplements
- Tactics
- Mental Prep
- Equipment
- Experience

ANY one of those could have been the winning factor. Also, any one of those could cause one to lose. It's easier to lose a race than it is to win one. There are also more way to lose than there are to win.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 08-09-12, 08:11 AM   #2733
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Very true, at that level everything is so closely matched its too hard to point out one thing.
Its interesting though how differently built some of them are but theyre still on that same level
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Old 08-09-12, 10:25 AM   #2734
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Is this just due to weight, or also due to other factors like geometry?
It's probably a combination of factors:

-weight
-old, non-efficient drivetrain. Meaning, worn out gears, stretched chain, old bearings, etc etc
-illusion of effort. You can shift down on a roadbike which sometimes feels better but makes you slower. On a fg/ss you HAVE to keep spinning that gear and since you can't gear down to maintain the same cadence, you are just forced to push a little harder
-geometry has more of an affect on handling, rather than just speed. Which, I guess, could translate into a slower overall ride if there are lots of turns. Though, I would suspect that to only really make a noticeable difference if there are long stretches of twisty downhill in his route.

edit: oh yeah /notcarleton

edit2: another thing I have noticed on old road bikes is the brakes suck! Maybe I just haven't encountered a good one, yet. Being able to brake efficiently has a large effect on overall speed. This may be a moot point if the dude who originally asked the question is brakeless
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Old 08-09-12, 10:32 AM   #2735
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At some point those huge quads might become an aero disadvantage...
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Old 08-09-12, 01:04 PM   #2736
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Carleton how do you rate a midlevel frame for track use? I know some things to look for like a good amount of dropout so I can change cogs without removing or adding a link to the chain, stiffness and aero.

I wanted to get a serious track frame, not a fixed gear bike made for road use. The options so far are the Specialized Langster PRO, Giant Omnium, Cervelo T1, Cinelli Vigoreli and Dolan Seta. All of them seem like good choices but the price varies like crazy, from $600 to $1200 and besides the seta for being carbon I can't see why such a price difference. Can you give me some hints, pointers?
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Old 08-09-12, 01:07 PM   #2737
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There is a good thread over in the track forum all about this, and it lists just about every option there is. But remember the biggest factor in a bike is does it fit?

Here is the thread
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...k-Racing-Bikes
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Old 08-09-12, 02:01 PM   #2738
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There is a good thread over in the track forum all about this, and it lists just about every option there is. But remember the biggest factor in a bike is does it fit?

Here is the thread
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...k-Racing-Bikes
+1
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 08-09-12, 02:14 PM   #2739
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Thanks Kayce!

The main thing I wanted to know is how to compare the frames with each other besides geometry. For full bikes I can understand the price difference since the components aren't the same but most of these frames are 6000/7000 series Al with Carbon forks, so how something like the 2013 Langster Pro costs $600 and the Cervelo T1 costs $1200?


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Old 08-09-12, 02:16 PM   #2740
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The name, amount that goes into research, etc etc.
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Old 08-09-12, 02:35 PM   #2741
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...when i see a matchup like kenney vs bauge and kenney just pulls away at the end not even stressing out.
"magic wheels" :-)
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Old 08-09-12, 03:21 PM   #2742
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Thanks Kayce!

The main thing I wanted to know is how to compare the frames with each other besides geometry. For full bikes I can understand the price difference since the components aren't the same but most of these frames are 6000/7000 series Al with Carbon forks, so how something like the 2013 Langster Pro costs $600 and the Cervelo T1 costs $1200?
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The name, amount that goes into research, etc etc.
+1

I can't see the cervelo T1 being worth $1200. It's just a good mid-level aluminum frame. Pragmatically, there is nothing special about it. It's not much different than other similar aluminum frames (Pista Concept, Trek T1, Felt TK2/3, etc...).
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 08-09-12, 03:22 PM   #2743
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"magic wheels" :-)
Hahaha!
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 08-09-12, 04:46 PM   #2744
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edit2: another thing I have noticed on old road bikes is the brakes suck! Maybe I just haven't encountered a good one, yet. Being able to brake efficiently has a large effect on overall speed. This may be a moot point if the dude who originally asked the question is brakeless
'twas i, and it did have brakes, which werent the worst ive ever used but still were not the greatest. i chalked it up to being old and worn out overall, and i most likely wont be keeping it. although the "illusion of effort" i think is what made me slower
when my buddy lets me try out his giant defy im sure ill feel like im being more efficient/faster
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Old 08-09-12, 08:00 PM   #2745
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It could be one of many things...or a combination of many things. I know that sounds vague, but there is no easy answer. There is SO much that goes into creating an athlete like Kenny, Bauge, Hoy, Pendleton, etc...

- Training (bike and weight room)
- Diet
- Supplements
- Tactics
- Mental Prep
- Equipment
- Experience

ANY one of those could have been the winning factor. Also, any one of those could cause one to lose. It's easier to lose a race than it is to win one. There are also more way to lose than there are to win.
Ooh ooh, I'm pretty sure I first saw this on this subforum (maybe even this thread), but relevant (and interesting!):
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Old 08-09-12, 08:33 PM   #2746
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Ooh ooh, I'm pretty sure I first saw this on this subforum (maybe even this thread), but relevant (and interesting!):
http://vimeo.com/26494905
and sexy.
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No offense but you're an idiot.
PedalRoom
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Old 08-11-12, 12:39 AM   #2747
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I just spent a lazy summer afternoon reading this entire thread back to front to make sure that nobody else asked this.

Dear CarLEton,

How on earth do you pronounce "Tiemeyer"?
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Doing one-legged squats while holding chickens in each hand will make someone strong...that doesn't mean it's the best way to train for track racing.
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That would be spectacular. A trail of blood and sealant.
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Old 08-11-12, 12:42 AM   #2748
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I just spent a lazy summer afternoon reading this entire thread back to front to make sure that nobody else asked this.

Dear CarLEton,

How on earth do you pronounce "Tiemeyer"?
It's pronounced: TEE-meyer

And my name is pronounced the same as Carlton.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 08-12-12, 07:30 PM   #2749
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Dear Carleton,

I've only recently increased the mileage I am riding (to a measly 100 miles a week), and have been consistently doing some weight training at the gym. Because it is "new" for me, when I do longer rides (30-40 miles), my legs are tired the day of and sore the next day, when I do the weights, they are sore the next day.

Any tips for a "beginner" on scheduling my weight training and riding, so I can effectively progress at both? I am not training for anything in particular, just want to get into better shape and be stronger.

Skipped the Trainng and Nutrition section because your answer will be better.
Just wondering if I could get a little input on this, as I've been off the bike for the past week and will be riding a bit this week, and going to the gym.
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Old 08-12-12, 07:38 PM   #2750
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Just wondering if I could get a little input on this, as I've been off the bike for the past week and will be riding a bit this week, and going to the gym.
Sorry, I missed this question.

It's normal to be sore within the first 2 weeks of a new program.

After 2 weeks or so, soreness should go away as your body should have adapted to the new load.

I would guess that it's a nutrition thing. Maybe you need more protein in your diet to help repair fatigued muscles.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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