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Old 08-31-11, 03:44 PM   #951
Kayce
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What are the generall ideas for TT bars for track racing. What sort of width, length and angles should i be looking at? I have a set of RB-021 base bars that are great for the starts, but cant find anything to settle into.
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Old 09-01-11, 12:03 AM   #952
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why do all track cranksets come with a 48 tooth ring?
wouldn't a 49 tooth ring be better?
then you could use it with 16 or 18 cogs and still have lots of skid patches.
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Old 09-01-11, 12:05 AM   #953
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cuz you dont skid on the track, like duh.
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Old 09-01-11, 12:38 AM   #954
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cuz you dont skid on the track, like duh.
qft
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Old 09-01-11, 11:02 AM   #955
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why do all track cranksets come with a 48 tooth ring?
wouldn't a 49 tooth ring be better?
then you could use it with 16 or 18 cogs and still have lots of skid patches.
I hope you're trolling
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Old 09-01-11, 12:18 PM   #956
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I'll admit, that was kind of a stupid question. Nevertheless, I'm sure the majority of track cranksets sold won't ever end up on the track.
Just realized that Miche cranksets come with 49t, as do TA Alize, and the FSA carbon track.
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Old 09-01-11, 12:28 PM   #957
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Dear Carleton,

You said it wasn't going be done;

Don't know about production through considering the laser was never mass produced.
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Old 09-01-11, 12:58 PM   #958
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Apparently it's going to be available as a limited run.
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Old 09-01-11, 01:27 PM   #959
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The only thing that relates that bike to the Laser is the color and the look of the farrings.

Last edited by Kayce; 09-01-11 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 09-01-11, 01:33 PM   #960
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It also doesnt look to have the angles of the Laser.
The revival was designed with actual current UCI competition and the olympics in mind. "Funny bikes" with the original falling in this category were banned.
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Old 09-01-11, 01:46 PM   #961
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I don't want to derail the thread, but it looks very close to the concept rendering. It doesn't have to look exactly like the original Laser. It's a new model, not a replica. And of course, you beg the question, "which laser?" As we know, there have been a few different Lasers in history.

Carleton, is your Tiemeyer done yet?
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Old 09-01-11, 10:09 PM   #962
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Originally Posted by Kayce View Post
What are the generall ideas for TT bars for track racing. What sort of width, length and angles should i be looking at? I have a set of RB-021 base bars that are great for the starts, but cant find anything to settle into.
Aerobars are a VERY personal thing. Much more so than saddles or bars. Everyone has different levels of flexibility and shoulder width. Plus, it also depends on if you are doing a high speed event like the 500M or the Kilo, or a more steady event like the 3K or 4K. The best thing is to find a well-stocked triathlon shop and try a bunch in your hands/forearms and make an informed decision.

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Dear Carleton,

You said it wasn't going be done;

Don't know about production through considering the laser was never mass produced.
I'm impressed. I assume that it's carbon.

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The only thing that relates that bike to the Laser is the color and the look of the farrings.
Yeah.

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Originally Posted by Leukybear View Post
The revival was designed with actual current UCI competition and the olympics in mind. "Funny bikes" with the original falling in this category were banned.
I'd eat my hat if that showed up at a National Championships, much less an Olympic event. It's too flimsy for world class athletes (men or women) even if it were made carbon, and the dropouts are too short. My guess is that this is a street bike.

Look at how beefy the "industry standard" LOOK 496 is compared to the Laser Redux:


If you are making a bike that is to compete with the 496, you don't make it less stiff.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 09-01-11, 10:12 PM   #963
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Carleton, is your Tiemeyer done yet?
No. I'm just as eager to see it as well as announce the winner of the pedals...if anyone actually guess correctly already...
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 09-01-11, 10:13 PM   #964
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I'd eat my hat if that showed up at a National Championships, much less an Olympic event. It's too flimsy for world class athletes (men or women) even if it were made carbon, and the dropouts are too short. My guess is that this is a street bike.
Is it a 10 gallon cowboy hat?
I was implying more toward the design following UCI rules; that it can be race legal. But I completely understand your viewpoint; this bike is meant to be shown not ridden.
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Old 09-01-11, 10:15 PM   #965
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Is it a 10 gallon cowboy hat?
I was implying more toward the design following UCI rules; that it can be race legal. But I completely understand your viewpoint; this bike is meant to be shown not ridden.
Oh, then yes, if a jr or masters racer would race this frame it would have to conform to UCI rules.

It's a Detroit Tigers New Era hat...with the home team orange D.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 09-01-11, 10:20 PM   #966
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The only thing that relates that bike to the Laser is the color and the look of the farrings.
It would be enough Laser to me, if I ever got one into my hands...
(sorry ot)
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Old 09-01-11, 10:26 PM   #967
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What are the generall ideas for TT bars for track racing. What sort of width, length and angles should i be looking at? I have a set of RB-021 base bars that are great for the starts, but cant find anything to settle into.
Man, I literally tried about 12 different aerobars or basebar + clip on aerobar combinations before I settled on my setup. I borrowed most of them but also wasted money on a few sets.

It's funny that you mention RB021, because that's the base bar that I settled on. I have the steel EAI ones. I use the Origin8 clip on aerobars. It's probably the heaviest setup of all of the ones I tried...and the most comfortable.

Don't worry about buying anything carbon. It will cost 50-100% more than the same setup in aluminum and not perform any better. It will only weigh slightly less.

Comfort and stability are most important. I use a wide-arm stance similar to this, maybe a little wider:


It's hard to find bars that will allow you to setup that wide as most aerobars assume you want a narrow stance like this:
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 09-02-11, 11:38 AM   #968
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Dear Carleton,

What are the advantages of the horizontal dropouts of the SS/FG frame? Are the advantages practical to the everyday rider or is it simply street cred?

After pondering this myself, the only two conclusions I made were:
1. Easier to adjust chain tension
2. the weight of the rider is held better on the horizontal dropout than the angled dropouts of a conversion.

Does that make sense?

Forgive me if this insults the intelligence of you or the readers, but I'd like to know from a trusted source.

Thanks.
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Old 09-02-11, 12:17 PM   #969
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Dear Carleton,

What are the advantages of the horizontal dropouts of the SS/FG frame? Are the advantages practical to the everyday rider or is it simply street cred?

After pondering this myself, the only two conclusions I made were:
1. Easier to adjust chain tension
2. the weight of the rider is held better on the horizontal dropout than the angled dropouts of a conversion.

Does that make sense?

Forgive me if this insults the intelligence of you or the readers, but I'd like to know from a trusted source.

Thanks.
The horizontal dropout allows for more gear ratios. Everytime you put on a bigger or smaller chainring or cog the rear wheel moves up or backwards depending on how much chain is being used up by the chainring/cog combination.

A 49t chainring uses more chain than a 48t, and therefore the wheel will be a few mm closer to the seat tube and vice/versa.
A 19t cog uses more chain than a 18t, and therefore the wheel will be a few mm closer to the seat tube and vice/versa.

When you start fine-tuning what gear ratio you like, even when riding on the road, sometimes a short horizontal dropout might limit your options. Vertical dropouts severely limit your options and only work with "magic gear" combinations.

http://www.63xc.com/toddp/halflink.htm
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 09-05-11, 05:54 PM   #970
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From that other thread:
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Question (keep in mind that I have ZERO understanding of how chainline works/is measured):

Since the chainline of Ellipses is weird, would it help to install the cog backwards (flange facing away from hub)

Also, I'm going to add a spacer on my rear hub to avoid the thread-stripping issue with Ellipses. I was thinking it would make more sense to put it between the cog and lockring then between the cog and hub, as hopefully the cog will put less force in that direction and not destroy the spacer?

edit: one more question. The rear axle is smaller than the front, and also smaller than the rear axle on my origin8 hubs and stock kilo wheelset. Does this mean the axle was replaced at some point? I'd like to get new track nuts as the ones that are on there are all gunked up. Don't have calipers but the axles seem to be somewhere around 8 mm?

Last edited by hamish5178; 09-05-11 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 09-06-11, 01:28 PM   #971
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New Laser

"Despite the bike looking like it’s carbon fiber, with all its formed lines and striking beauty, it’s actually made with a Columbus Spirit tube set… the tubes are made with a special Columbus Niobium steel “which is doped with manganese, chrome, nickel molybdenum and niobium.” Wow. These limited edition bikes are being sold for 7,500 Euro. That’s around $10,600."
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Old 09-06-11, 01:46 PM   #972
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THIS IS NOT A LASER THREAD

Dear Carleton,

What are the benefits of a wide arm stance vs. a narrow arm stance?

I've heard things like a wide stance opens the chest for better breathing, and a narrow arm stance is supposedly more aerodynamic.

Is that it? And if so, is it really that simple as choosing whether you want better breathing or better aerodynamics?
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Old 09-06-11, 03:00 PM   #973
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THIS IS NOT A LASER THREAD

Dear Carleton,

What are the benefits of a wide arm stance vs. a narrow arm stance?

I've heard things like a wide stance opens the chest for better breathing, and a narrow arm stance is supposedly more aerodynamic.

Is that it? And if so, is it really that simple as choosing whether you want better breathing or better aerodynamics?
I'm not an expert on aerobars, but that is what I've noticed:

Conventional wisdom is "the more narrow, the better" so people have been opting for narrow arm placements which draw their shoulders in, too. They mimic what they see the pros, do...without mimicking the 15 years of riding, dieting, stretching, and experience that the pros have done, too.

Just like super-low bars isn't the best, super narrow bars aren't either. There is a balance between aerodynamics and power production. Basically, get as low and narrow as you can until power starts to diminish. This will leave the average person in a higher and wider position than their heros...but it will be fastest for them.

To answer your questions:

Wider is better. Breathing and power production are MUCH more important than aerodynamics. Elite word-class riders are learning this now, too. Look at the British and also Sarah Hammer as examples.

Here is some reading on the topic: http://predatorcycling.com/bike-fitt...f-the-aerobar/
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 09-06-11, 03:20 PM   #974
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On a related note, just yesterday I was at my LBS and was watching a guy get fit on his time trial bike (Cervelo something or other) and he had the normal narrow and low position. The fitter video taped the guy riding on the trainer. The most obvious thing was the rider's shoulders and head rocking side-to-side a few centimeters.

The fitter raised the bars about 1cm and widened the arm pads significantly and had the guy ride more. He was solid as a rock and came out about 1cm lower with a flatter back. The rider commented that it was a much more comfortable position and breathing was easier. Win, Win, Win.
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Old 09-06-11, 03:27 PM   #975
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Sorry for the multiple posts.

To illustrate this effect:

Lets say you were laying on your belly on the floor with your arms under your chest in a narrow time trial position. This is position A. Then your widened your arms a bit into position B. What would happen to your back and head? They would go down making you lower to the ground. What if someone tried to roll you over, which position is more stable? Position B is more stable.

As long as your arms aren't outside of your body, you are not creating any more drag by being wider, but you are lowering your back, becoming more stable, and more comfortable.
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