Dalai

Front old school 41mm silver Shamal tested as fast as a Zipp 808 indoors. Deeper isn't necessarily faster either...

queerpunk

got a link to this test?

himespau 

Why does indoor vs outdoor matter. In either case, doesn't the shape of the tire remain the same (less lightbulb shape, more smooth curve on a wider rim)?

Dalai

Was comment by Alex Simmons on the interwebs about equipment field testing he did indoors in preparation for Jayson Austins Masters hour record.

The man knows his aero so no reason for me to doubt.

queerpunk

outdoors, the concept of "yaw angles" comes into play - how the aerodynamics of the rim work when they're hitting air at an angle. usually, talk of wide rims in the context of being more aerodynamic at different yaw angles to do with bulbous rims rather than just rims with a wider tire bed.

Dalai

Found data set. Was actually field testing for himself - Aero schmaero - Main Topic Area - Timetrialling Forum

Further comments muddy the waters slightly, but either way very close on low yaw conditions.

https://www.trainingandracingwithapow...ny-vs-fat.html

taras0000

This "fact" (as it was publicly unconfirmed for a long time) was an urban myth long before Simon tested this. It was always rumored that the Shamal/Gippieme rim was really fast. Arnaud Tournant used it as his front wheel when he first broke the 1:00.00 barrier in the Kilo.

carleton

Yeah, that wheel is amazing. I've always lusted for a set of the Campy Track Shamals:



Gippieme version:

taras0000

But that would require going full Campy and getting a quill stem and fluted seatpost. And no cheaping out either. Full Record. No Athena BBs.

carleton

Ya. Pretty much.

It's a *very* slippery slope.

Dalai

I have a NOS pristine set of 1995 Shamals 8 speed road wheelset I bought when I started Triathlons. They are a thing of beauty!

Can't force myself to sell them even though they have been in wheel bags for the last 15 years or so... Would like one day to build up a period classic from the 90's, otherwise I do have a Corima freehub so I could convert them to run 10/11 speed.

WhatsYoCadence

This question has probably been asked a thousand times here.

I'm in need of a new chain. I'm thinking that DID stainless NJS one. it's like 60 bucks.

WhatsYoCadence

also, has this changed?

carleton

Nice!

NJS chains are nice, but not necessary. I've found that the cheapest of chains (around 10 bucks) are crap. The $20 and up chains are all sufficient. Like the KMC K710 or K710SL. For an inexpensive Japanese chain, I like the Izumi ECO for like $30.

My last max was like 2,160 or 2,170. But I haven't had a power meter in over a year.

How many watts are Oreos?

WhatsYoCadence

So.. because I work at a shop I could get that 60 dollar chain for 30 basically. May as well, right? I have the 30 Eco chainon my steel race bike and it's nice. I guess I just want to try them all.


What happened to your powermeter?

carleton

No, not really. The Izumi V Supertoughness chain is OK. It has a screw pin which, speaking honestly, is a pain in the butt to use when you have to disassemble the chain. C-clip master links are fine and faster to use.

I've owned 2 V chains over the years and I usually just go back to using the ECO or K710 chains. Also the K710 and K710-SL are the most quiet chains of all that I've ever used. They are heavier (beefy because they are made for BMX grinding). But, they are inexpensive, easy to find locally, and no human can break them.

Remember, NJS does not mean better or higher quality. It just means that the race governing body has approved those items. NJS stuff is usually behind the times, actually. Even the reference Dura Ace Track Cranks (NJS) are overdue for an update.

I realized that I did not use power data for my training. I used speed and cadence to make training evaluations. Power rarely (if ever) factored into it. I just used power as a "Oooh! Look at what I did." number.

Speed and Cadence tracked over 0.5" intervals and loaded into analysis software are all that I needed.

dunderhi

I have Izumi ECO on one bike and the Supertoughness on two others. The ECO is perfectly fine track chain and should be sufficient enough for most anyone. It's quiet, built solidly, and has a C-clip master link. The Supertoughness is super heavy duty and very noisy. It's kind of like comparing trucks. A $6 chain is like a Ford F-150, the ECO is like a F-250, and the Supertoughness is diesel F-350. I get around the threaded screw master link by hard-pinning my chains. I know that practice unpopular around here, but it works for me. My frame will probably fail long before my Supertoughness fails.

himespau 

One thing I wonder about noisy chains: Sound waves are a form of energy, usually created by friction. If chains (or for that matter high end hubs on road bikes) are more noisy, does that mean they have more friction in the system, are slightly less efficient, and you're wasting a fraction of a watt with each pedal rotation?

wens

Noisy probably just means less damping or more clearance. The differences in chains after they've worn in seem like they must be tiny intuitively. I have no data though, so I'd like to see somebody who looked into it in depth.

gtrob

Home page Friction Facts

they test road chains and lube. Basically the BEST vs the WORST is around 6w, more often closer to 1 or 2. Simply removing the factory lubrication and putting your own on gets you most of the way.

Nothing related to noise, but an idea of how much power could be lost there.

gycho77

when did you start riding track bikes?

Baby Puke

This is largely meaningless, but nonetheless I'm kinda interested in this chain stuff. I used to use the Izumi ST's exclusively (they were about half the price in Japan), but always did think they were weirdly noisy. I'm a late convert to cheap-o KMC's which are much quieter and *feel* smoother. That said, the KMC's have a TON more side to side slop in them, whereas all the NJS chains are incredibly stiff side to side. This seems to put a hole in the increased clearance idea.

Why are the ST's so damn noisy??

carleton

2009.

gycho77

So you start riding track bikes when you were 18years old?

carleton

35.