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  1. #1
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Running sprint training benefit bike sprints?

    I'm just diving into track racing after years of trail running.

    I believe my trail running has been good preparation for it - I run up steep trails and run in intervals - hard for 20 seconds, easy for 30, for up to an hour going up, then jogging an hour back.

    A couple years ago I met up with a track coach and paid him for some short sprint workouts (running) at the local high school track. Bought running spikes and ran 100's and 200's at high intensity. Loved it.

    I am going to start that up again - I'm sure it's not the exact same muscles as I use when sprinting on bike, but my goal is to add that to my routine, along with track racing (bikes), and trail running.

    I assume this is a good idea, but maybe I'm wrong. Thoughts? I want to have overall great fast-twitch muscle performance and would like to do well racing next year.

    My routine moving forward will be:
    Mon: weights (upper body)
    Tues: Racing series
    Wed: Sprints (running)
    Thurs: Trail run
    Fri: weights (upper body)
    Sat or Sun - Wild card - race if there is one, trail run, or sometimes I like to run half marathons. This Sat I'm running the Leadville Half Marathon.

    I'm 185 lbs and 5'11, if that matters at all.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
    I have a grande hairy chest and I am of Italian descent.
    2010 Cannondale Supersix
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  2. #2
    Senior Member runner pat's Avatar
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    If you want to train to sprint on a bike, do your sprints on a bike. Running sprinting won't carry over enough to spend the time on it.

    General cycling is good for a cross training runner as the cardio carries over but you need to train how you're going to race.

    And trail running is good for general conditioning for the bike as the muscles used when climbing are the same as cycling. But sprinting is a whole 'nother animal.

  3. #3
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner pat View Post
    If you want to train to sprint on a bike, do your sprints on a bike. Running sprinting won't carry over enough to spend the time on it.

    General cycling is good for a cross training runner as the cardio carries over but you need to train how you're going to race.

    And trail running is good for general conditioning for the bike as the muscles used when climbing are the same as cycling. But sprinting is a whole 'nother animal.
    So if I were to run a sprint workout just once a week, you are saying it won't benefit at all, and that I should focus on sprinting on the bike and doing workouts specifically for bike sprinting for each and every workout? Not doubting you by asking this, but can you tell me about your personal experience with this?
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
    I have a grande hairy chest and I am of Italian descent.
    2010 Cannondale Supersix
    2011 Dolan DF3

  4. #4
    Senior Member runner pat's Avatar
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    I coach high school track and cross country. The mechanics of sprinting on foot are totally different than on the bike. Foot sprinting, the quads only come into play at the start. Once the transition is made to a full sprint stride, speed comes from momentum and driving off the toes(calves). The involvement of the quads is quick and explosive as opposed to cycling which is a much longer power stroke.

  5. #5
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    but for track racing, wouldn't that be a good thing? Standing starts and short match sprints? THat's a lot of explosive quad stuff.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
    I have a grande hairy chest and I am of Italian descent.
    2010 Cannondale Supersix
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  6. #6
    Senior Member runner pat's Avatar
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    The power stoke on a bike is almost identical to doing squats, completely unlike a running stride. Also, the start phase of a running sprint is only a few steps, not the entire race.

    Also, the runner has little resistance unlike the single gear track rider.

    Most running sprint training is to maximize the start and the transition to a full sprint stride. There's little to be done to improve top speed beyond good mechanics and increasing upper body power.

  7. #7
    Senior Member chas58's Avatar
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    you can do a search, but most people do weights to strenghten their quads for sprinting. Getting a good jump/acceleration can be key to winning a sprint.

  8. #8
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    I'm struggling with this one. I know that weights are imperative for sprint training. But there's something missing here. The sprinter that will succeed the most has focused on their fast-twitch muscle performance. There's no better way to do this than sprinting and plyometrics.

    I am not saying that you should run sprints 7 days a week to perform best on the track. Obviously to get faster on the bike you need to train on a bike. But you can do other things to enhance your overall performance. I'm saying that sprinting on a bike harnesses the combination of raw power (weight training), explosive power and fast-twitch muscle performance (running sprints and plyometrics are one of the best things you can do).

    I'm suggesting that adding ONE DAY of running sprints could do great things to your routine.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
    I have a grande hairy chest and I am of Italian descent.
    2010 Cannondale Supersix
    2011 Dolan DF3

  9. #9
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner pat View Post
    And trail running is good for general conditioning for the bike as the muscles used when climbing are the same as cycling. But sprinting is a whole 'nother animal.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    I'm struggling with this one. I know that weights are imperative for sprint training. But there's something missing here. The sprinter that will succeed the most has focused on their fast-twitch muscle performance. There's no better way to do this than sprinting and plyometrics.

    I am not saying that you should run sprints 7 days a week to perform best on the track. Obviously to get faster on the bike you need to train on a bike. But you can do other things to enhance your overall performance. I'm saying that sprinting on a bike harnesses the combination of raw power (weight training), explosive power and fast-twitch muscle performance (running sprints and plyometrics are one of the best things you can do).

    I'm suggesting that adding ONE DAY of running sprints could do great things to your routine.
    Man, it looks like you are trying to logically prove that what you like to do (running) will help you on the bike. That won't work.

    Yes, triathletes run and bike...but they definitely are not sprinters. I don't know any track sprinters who run for training. Get your cadio on the bike.

    Also, your weekly program listed above is not good at all as a track sprinting program. It has one day for cycling...and that's a race day. Race days provide the lightest training load of any day of the week. Further, your gym days are for upper body. As a track sprinter, your gym days will focus on lower body work (squat, deadlift, leg press, power clean...depending on the training phase) and any upper body work will be only to supplement the program.

    I would imagine that if you have aspirations to be competitive on a regional/national level a coach would strip out most, if not all, of your running.

    Now, keep in mind, I'm writing from an "I'm ALL IN" perspective. If this is a leisure activity for you, and you are riding for fun when you can, then ignore everything I just wrote.
    Last edited by carleton; 07-02-11 at 08:56 AM.

  10. #10
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    +1

    I would imagine that if you have aspirations to be competitive on a regional/national level a coach would strip out most, if not all, of your running.

    Now, keep in mind, I'm writing from an "I'm ALL IN" perspective. If this is a leisure activity for you, and you are riding for fun when you can, then ignore everything I just wrote.
    I'm all in. I'm excited to make whatever changes necessary. I am meeting with my coach over lunch or dinner in about a week or so to design a training program. He's allowing me to train with his team, even though I'm not on it. Pretty amazing he lets me do that. I'm at a point where I am ready to make a transition that goes from running up mountains to racing bikes on the track. I'm interested to see how a totally different training routine will convert to performance on bike sprints.

    THanks for all the opinions here. I'm the kind of guy who will challenge everyone, so don't take it the wrong way, my goal is sincere in the interest of taking track racing seriously.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
    I have a grande hairy chest and I am of Italian descent.
    2010 Cannondale Supersix
    2011 Dolan DF3

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