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Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

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Old 03-08-12, 07:33 PM   #1
JMR
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Training wheel advice

Hey guys,

I am building up a new track bike and wanted some advice on the best rims to use for training.

I am going to get a set of handbuilt's with 32h Dura-Ace 7600 high flange hubs and either Velocity Deep-V or Mavic Open Pro rims.

I do like the fact that the Deep-V's are more aero, but have been told that the max tyre pressure I can run on them is 120psi. I believe I can run 135 or so in the Open Pro's.

I will be running Conti Supersonic 23's and the majority of training will be on an outdoor concrete velodrome here in Australia (Brisbane).

What do you all think? I am open to other suggestions on the rims as well...

JMR
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Old 03-08-12, 07:49 PM   #2
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Hey guys,

I am building up a new track bike and wanted some advice on the best rims to use for training.

I am going to get a set of handbuilt's with 32h Dura-Ace 7600 high flange hubs and either Velocity Deep-V or Mavic Open Pro rims.

I do like the fact that the Deep-V's are more aero, but have been told that the max tyre pressure I can run on them is 120psi. I believe I can run 135 or so in the Open Pro's.

I will be running Conti Supersonic 23's and the majority of training will be on an outdoor concrete velodrome here in Australia (Brisbane).

What do you all think? I am open to other suggestions on the rims as well...

JMR
I've asked Velocity about using clincher tires rated at 160psi and their response:

Quote:
For tire pressure we would default to the max pressure listed on the tire as the appropriate gauge for pressure limits due to the fact that the tire will give out long before the rim would.
I've run 160psi on Velocity rims with no problems. Did it last night at the track.

Also, Australia's own Shane Perkins uses Velocity rims.

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Old 03-08-12, 09:48 PM   #3
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The other option is to look at the Kinlin range of rims. I've got their 30mm rims laced 20/28 2x on generic Asian track hubs with Sapim CX Blades. They are plenty stiff and I've flogged them around all manner of surface here in Sydney for the last 5 seasons and they are still running as good as the day they were built.

One aside, I like the Supersonics, but find for I don't really know what reason that you end up constantly ripping threads out of the sidewall in them. I switched to Veloflex's and performance wise they are the same, but they seem to wear a bit better. Price online is give or take the same.
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Old 03-08-12, 10:38 PM   #4
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Thanks guys... so Carleton, you are happy with your Velocity rims? Do you have Deep-V's or another model?

I would like to go the Deep-V's if for no other reason than to support an Australian company!

JMR
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Old 03-08-12, 11:55 PM   #5
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Thanks guys... so Carleton, you are happy with your Velocity rims? Do you have Deep-V's or another model?

I would like to go the Deep-V's if for no other reason than to support an Australian company!

JMR
I got a set of mavic open sport rims after our very own Carleton talked some sense into me. Cheap and bomber.
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Old 03-09-12, 02:52 AM   #6
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I would like to go the Deep-V's if for no other reason than to support an Australian company!

JMR
http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=656

Sorry to burst your bubble. If you were stateside, I would suggest going to velomine for your wheelset. I picked up a 7600 32h to Mavic Open Pro set fairly recently. Pretty sure they're machine built, but you could always loosen and hand true them yourself, right?
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Old 03-09-12, 10:16 AM   #7
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I've run Tufos around 160 on Velocities without ever going as low as 120 or having any sort of issue. Both indoors on wood and outdoors on concrete.
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Old 03-09-12, 11:09 AM   #8
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Thanks guys... so Carleton, you are happy with your Velocity rims? Do you have Deep-V's or another model?

I would like to go the Deep-V's if for no other reason than to support an Australian company!

JMR
As far as aluminum rims goes, I've used:

Velocity Deep V Clincher
Velocity Deep V Tubular (also called "Pro Elite" for the tubular version)
Velocity Aero Clincher
Mavic Ellipse Clincher

All with no issues. I'd recommend all of them. But, there are plenty of other good options out there, too.
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Old 03-09-12, 12:28 PM   #9
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There are some definate reasons to use Deep Vs for training(strong, relitivly cheap, easily found) but aerodynamics seems odd. Why would you care how aero your training wheels are?
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Old 03-10-12, 12:43 AM   #10
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There are some definate reasons to use Deep Vs for training(strong, relitivly cheap, easily found) but aerodynamics seems odd. Why would you care how aero your training wheels are?
I'll race my local weekly club races on my training wheels. No harm of selecting a more aero option if it meets the other criteria (strong, relatively cheap, easily found)?
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Old 03-11-12, 04:48 PM   #11
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I've been running 140-160psi on a set of aeroheads for 2 years now. I'm 120kg in weight and so far no issues whatsoever.

On the supersonics, I'd recommend going for something a bit cheaper and harder wearing if you're going to train/race on them. I'm guessing they won't last too long on a concrete track, especially if you do much sprint training. I have a set of suso's but I'm keeping them for indoor racing. I've got bargain bin cheapies on for club racing/training on outdoor asphalt. Crap on the outdoor tracks takes big bites out of good tires!
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Old 03-11-12, 06:57 PM   #12
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I'll race my local weekly club races on my training wheels. No harm of selecting a more aero option if it meets the other criteria (strong, relatively cheap, easily found)?
Yeah, this is why I wouldn't mind a more aero training wheelset... Most club racing will be done on the training wheels. Bring out the 808/Disc combo for the big open races.

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Old 03-11-12, 07:07 PM   #13
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I've been running 140-160psi on a set of aeroheads for 2 years now. I'm 120kg in weight and so far no issues whatsoever.

On the supersonics, I'd recommend going for something a bit cheaper and harder wearing if you're going to train/race on them. I'm guessing they won't last too long on a concrete track, especially if you do much sprint training. I have a set of suso's but I'm keeping them for indoor racing. I've got bargain bin cheapies on for club racing/training on outdoor asphalt. Crap on the outdoor tracks takes big bites out of good tires!
Thanks for the advice... I thought that may be the case but I wanted to try the Supersonics anyway. If I chew through them really quickly I will try something different next time (Veloflex??).

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Old 03-11-12, 07:10 PM   #14
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http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=656

Sorry to burst your bubble. If you were stateside, I would suggest going to velomine for your wheelset. I picked up a 7600 32h to Mavic Open Pro set fairly recently. Pretty sure they're machine built, but you could always loosen and hand true them yourself, right?
Interesting... didn't know that Velocity were moving their manufacturing plant to the USA.

I am going looking at getting the wheelset from Velomine anyway (It is considerably cheaper to buy them from there even when you include shipping than buying locally). It looks like the rims still have the "made in Australia" sticker on them.

JMR
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Old 03-12-12, 09:17 AM   #15
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As far as aluminum rims goes, I've used:

Velocity Deep V Clincher
Velocity Deep V Tubular (also called "Pro Elite" for the tubular version)
Velocity Aero Clincher
Mavic Ellipse Clincher

All with no issues. I'd recommend all of them. But, there are plenty of other good options out there, too.
Are the Ellipse worth the higher price over say Deep-V's?
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Old 03-12-12, 10:17 AM   #16
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Are the Ellipse worth the higher price over say Deep-V's?
If you are using them as strictly training wheels and have a set of bling race wheels for race day, then I say no. But if you are on a budget (as most of us are) and using one set of wheels for training and racing, then they are great. They are pretty fast for training wheels (20 bladed spokes front & rear). I set my personal best flying 200M time on Mavic Ellipse...not my Mavic Io/Comete

One caveat, the rear Ellipse is fine for all but a very few really strong sprinter types who put down LOTS of torque.

Here is Gregory Bauge using the Ellipse front and a custom 32 or 36 spoke rear in training:



So, unless you are making torque close to that level, the Ellipse will be just fine.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 03-12-12, 10:37 AM   #17
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If you are using them as strictly training wheels and have a set of bling race wheels for race day, then I say no. But if you are on a budget (as most of us are) and using one set of wheels for training and racing, then they are great. They are pretty fast for training wheels (20 bladed spokes front & rear). I set my personal best flying 200M time on Mavic Ellipse...not my Mavic Io/Comete

One caveat, the rear Ellipse is fine for all but a very few really strong sprinter types who put down LOTS of torque.

Here is Gregory Bauge using the Ellipse front and a custom 32 or 36 spoke rear in training:



So, unless you are making torque close to that level, the Ellipse will be just fine.
I was debating on getting another wheelset so I don't have to change tires/cogs every time I want to go out to the track, so the Ellipse would be my training and race wheels. I'm debating on just getting another set of deep-v's since the Ellipses seem "too nice" for my current bike.. lol
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Old 03-12-12, 10:50 AM   #18
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I was debating on getting another wheelset so I don't have to change tires/cogs every time I want to go out to the track, so the Ellipse would be my training and race wheels. I'm debating on just getting another set of deep-v's since the Ellipses seem "too nice" for my current bike.. lol
Dude, get used to changing cogs and chainrings. That's all part of the game. It's normal to change cogs 3-4 times during a training session.

But, yes, you do want appropriate tires for the track. I've seen people use some conti tires and pull double-duty with them.

For these reasons, and many more, depending on how deep you get into the sport, chances are you will eventually have a dedicated track bike separate from your street fixed gear.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 03-12-12, 10:54 AM   #19
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Dude, get used to changing cogs and chainrings. That's all part of the game. It's normal to change cogs 3-4 times during a training session.

But, yes, you do want appropriate tires for the track. I've seen people use some conti tires and pull double-duty with them.

For these reasons, and many more, depending on how deep you get into the sport, chances are you will eventually have a dedicated track bike separate from your street fixed gear.
Cogs/lockrings aren't too big of a deal (I've never really changed a chainring, but it seems straightforward). Would breaking the chain often cause problems with links or anything? Because I'm sure to go from my 49/18 (street setup) to other more track setups will require me to break the chain often

My 700x25 RiBMo's didn't feel as awesome on the track haha.
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Old 03-12-12, 11:01 AM   #20
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Cogs/lockrings aren't too big of a deal (I've never really changed a chainring, but it seems straightforward). Would breaking the chain often cause problems with links or anything? Because I'm sure to go from my 49/18 (street setup) to other more track setups will require me to break the chain often

My 700x25 RiBMo's didn't feel as awesome on the track haha.
Use 2 chains. Use the master link to swap the chains on the bike. Pushing pins in and out might cause problems.

Yeah, 25s will feel weird on the track.
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Old 03-12-12, 05:54 PM   #21
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if you are on a budget (as most of us are)
then

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not my Mavic Io/Comete
Not everyone it seems... ;-)
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Old 03-13-12, 02:07 AM   #22
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then

Not everyone it seems... ;-)
Believe me, I sacrificed and saved LOTS of beer tokens and sold LOTS of bike gear to buy a used set
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Old 03-13-12, 05:44 AM   #23
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I hear you carleton. I am the same, don't spend a cent on anything else but make careful purchases of specific bike kit.

Wouldn't mind a review of the wheels at some time if you haven't already done so?
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Old 03-13-12, 08:18 AM   #24
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Wouldn't mind a review of the wheels at some time if you haven't already done so?
x2.
I'll never be able to justify the purchase - but it'd be good to read - especially in light of this revelation of your flying 200 on the Ellipses.

Actually, Carleton, you've listed a pretty good selection of wheels you've used. I wouldn't personally mind your thoughts (just your own biased opinions) on several of them.
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Old 03-13-12, 10:02 AM   #25
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I hear you carleton. I am the same, don't spend a cent on anything else but make careful purchases of specific bike kit.

Wouldn't mind a review of the wheels at some time if you haven't already done so?
I don't know if I'm qualified to offer a review. Maybe I'll offer some "thoughts" on them Less pressure.

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x2.
I'll never be able to justify the purchase - but it'd be good to read - especially in light of this revelation of your flying 200 on the Ellipses.

Actually, Carleton, you've listed a pretty good selection of wheels you've used. I wouldn't personally mind your thoughts (just your own biased opinions) on several of them.
I've also used (or borrowed) Zipp 404 front/rear, Zipp 808 front/rear and Zipp 900 disc.
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