Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-28-12, 05:59 PM   #1
JMR
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 261
Aero Bars for Kilo

What is everyone's recommendation for aero bars for Kilo TT's?

I haven't previously done TT/pursuit events so I am a bit in the dark on this.

What I am thinking by looking at modern aero bars is that I probably want my elbows wider than most of the fixed setups... So I would probably want adjustable arm rests. Would this probably be right?

JMR
JMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 06:25 PM   #2
Dalai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 1,954
I have 3T Mistral Pro bars on my TT bike with ski extensions. The extensions width is fixed, but there are multiple plugged fixing points for the arm rests. So you have quite a bit of flexibility in where you can fit them width wise.

For Kilo / Pursuits I have an old alloy 3T Ahero bars with trimmed basebar.

To get the bars lower, I use Ritchey adjustable stems. Both bars mentioned are 3:1 UCI compliant, which is something you may need to watch for depending on where you race…

Why do you think you want the arm rests to be set wide?
Dalai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 06:31 PM   #3
JMR
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 261
Thanks Dalai.

I just don't think that I will be able to get the leverage when the aeros are too close together... might just be in my head, but would be annoyed to buy an $800+ carbon basebar/aeros setup and find that they don't work for me!

JMR
JMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 06:39 PM   #4
Dalai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 1,954
Can you borrow a cheap set of bolt on aerobars and fit to drop bars first to experiment with arm widths? As you say, can be an expensive error if you buy bars that don't work best for you...
Dalai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 06:42 PM   #5
JMR
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 261
Yeah, that is probably a good idea... do you recon just putting them on my sprint bars would be fine, or should I buy a cheap alloy bullhorn style bar to test on?

JMR
JMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 07:07 PM   #6
Dalai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 1,954
I'd go with bull horns rather than Pista bars, especially if you don't tape the whole bar.

You should be able to sell the bull horns easily to the Hipster crowd once you are done with them.
Dalai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 07:38 PM   #7
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,018
Finding the right aerobar is as tough as finding the right saddle.

I tried around 15 different aerobars (borrowing or buying) and settled on the heaviest and least expensive setup of them all. Go figure.

You are going to have to try a lot of bars before you find the one for you. I suggest going to a bike shop that specializes in serving triathletes. Shops like that tend to have several bars in stock. I don't suggest buying bars sight-unseen without trying them first.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 07:44 PM   #8
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalai View Post
Why do you think you want the arm rests to be set wide?
Don't knock the wide-elbows It works for lots of people.

Sarah Hammer, who has probably seen more wind-tunnel time than most, uses a very wide stance.





This is my favorite performance of hers:

[video=youtube;48FalPcZ044]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48FalPcZ044[/video]
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 08:06 PM   #9
mjf595
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Don't knock the wide-elbows It works for lots of people.

Sarah Hammer, who has probably seen more wind-tunnel time than most, uses a very wide stance.





This is my favorite performance of hers:

[video=youtube;48FalPcZ044]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48FalPcZ044[/video]
Can't say I know a whole lot about it but, she seems very shaky while riding in comparison to the girl that she's going against.
mjf595 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 08:09 PM   #10
Dalai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 1,954
Not knocking wide arms, just querying why JMR was wanting wide pads when it appears they haven't ridden with aerobars...

Agreed there is no hard and fast rule going narrow or wide - very much an individual thing. Same with aero helmets! Hence why I went into a windtunnel with my TT bike and collection of helmets back in 2008.
Dalai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 08:31 PM   #11
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf595 View Post
Can't say I know a whole lot about it but, she seems very shaky while riding in comparison to the girl that she's going against.
Do you mean the girl that Hammer beat to win a world championship?

I actually think that the weaving is a function of her pedal stroke more so than her arm position. It may not be pretty, but it's fast.

The Kilo is ridden faster (and harder) than an individual pursuit. Wider bars feel more stable when at full gas at 60kph...especially on bumpy local tracks that many of us have to ride.

The purposes of the aerobars are to
- Get the head down and close the chest area from being one big inlet for air
- Get the forearms horizontal to eliminate unnecessary drag.

Further, you can have wide elbows and bring the hands together. This creates an arrowhead shape, like this:



This usually means resting on one's forearms instead of near the elbows.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 09:14 PM   #12
thenomad
Riding like its 1990
 
thenomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IE, SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 3,749
At the same time from what I understand you do not want your arms any wider than your knees. You want your arms to break the wind/shield your knee/quad area to get the air moving over it smoother. Forarms horizontal, chest flatter, head down.
But then again, being able to stay in that position while pushing is not fun. I took the aeros off the bike a long time ago (I dont compete btw) after playing around with the whole thing for a while.
thenomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-12, 09:39 PM   #13
Hermes 
Elite Rider
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,657
The Shimano Pro Missile bars are the best aerobars I have.





__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle

Cat: Killer
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-12, 02:30 AM   #14
JMR
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Do you mean the girl that Hammer beat to win a world championship?

I actually think that the weaving is a function of her pedal stroke more so than her arm position. It may not be pretty, but it's fast.

The Kilo is ridden faster (and harder) than an individual pursuit. Wider bars feel more stable when at full gas at 60kph...especially on bumpy local tracks that many of us have to ride.

The purposes of the aerobars are to
- Get the head down and close the chest area from being one big inlet for air
- Get the forearms horizontal to eliminate unnecessary drag.

Further, you can have wide elbows and bring the hands together. This creates an arrowhead shape, like this:



This usually means resting on one's forearms instead of near the elbows.

This is what I was thinking... wider rests, but with ski jump shaped extensions rolled in towards each other a bit. This would bring my hands in closer together but keep my elbow out for more stability.

I will do what Dalai suggested and get a set of cheap alloy bullhorn bars and clip on extensions and play around with the setup. Once I have it sussed I will spend more money on somthing like what Hermes has!

JMR
JMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-12, 02:32 AM   #15
JMR
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
The Shimano Pro Missile bars are the best aerobars I have.
These look awesome!

JMR
JMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-12, 07:57 AM   #16
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes:
Posts: 13,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMR View Post
This is what I was thinking... wider rests, but with ski jump shaped extensions rolled in towards each other a bit. This would bring my hands in closer together but keep my elbow out for more stability.

I will do what Dalai suggested and get a set of cheap alloy bullhorn bars and clip on extensions and play around with the setup. Once I have it sussed I will spend more money on somthing like what Hermes has!

JMR
Actually my Kilo bar setup is:

- Nitto RB021 base bar
- Origin 8 clip on aero bars. I swapped the "S-Bend" extensions for "Ski Bend" for stability.




I've tried:
- Teschner
- 3T Aura
- And countless sets that I've borrowed from shops, teammates, and friends.

The Shimano Missles mentioned above are NICE, but not cheap.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
carleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-12, 08:59 AM   #17
Hermes 
Elite Rider
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,657
There are a couple of theories about width of aerobars and aerodynamics. And without going to the tunnel or testing using a power meter at an indoor track (or outdoor with little wind) it is speculation which will work better. However, in general, riders with wider shoulders may find that wider bars are better. However, I would not have the arms outside the hips. Generally, as one puts arms together, it becomes more difficult to lower the head. So the best trade off is arms together as close as possible with the head down.

What can be bad is the arms close together and the head up in the wind. The best aero position is the one that a racer can maintain.

The other aspect is acceleration. Being in the drops or the bull horns is a more powerful position. So after a standing start, staying in the drops longer after you sit down may yield a better time as long as you are accelerating. Once acceleration stops, go aero.

The Pro Missile's are definitely cool but the key is having the deeper drop between the aero position and the starting position for a better standing start and aero position during acceleration. That can be accomplished with a set of endurance bars and clip ons. Plus, when you travel, the bars can be disassembled.
__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle

Cat: Killer
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:43 AM.