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  1. #226
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Good job, Zitter! I wish I could ride a 1:12

    Collegiate nats can be a odd mix of fast, strong legs and limited experience on the track.

  2. #227
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    an odd mix of fast, strong legs and limited experience on the track.
    yeah that sounds like zitter.

    i can't believe they let u race B+ for even more than one TNR... dick move
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  3. #228
    Senior Member Velocirapture's Avatar
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    So, after just over a year on the track, but a whole lot of 'other' cycling experience, I'm incredibly privileged to be in Manchester at World Masters, at the moment. - Mens 35 - 39 kilo gold (Bruce Croall, GBR), just by way of example, was taken in 1:03.252... wow, just soaking it all in.
    My first race was a scratch, and a much bigger field than I race at home (if we're lucky, we'll get a field of >8 in my cat); with 20 riders. No attacks on the gun, but a slow wind up for the first few laps until a rider went off the front, with their team mate keeping the bunch at bay. looked like collusion to me, but I guess any of the other riders who were at the front of the pack could have jumped after the break away. Rider was reeled in eventually, but only due to sitting up, and could have stayed away. A few attacks happened, but none of them big enough to do anything more than string the bunch out for a bit, and the wind up continued. Was expecting another attack at 6 or 5 to go, but the main shift came with ~ 2 to go, when the sprinters came out of shadows. I was well positioned at about 5 to go, but too cautious and lost a few good wheels as a result.
    Finished in the bunch, 7 minutes of racing over, having rode a much too conservative race. Well, to be honest, the level of assertiveness was far higher than I'm used to - I'm normally the rider that gets the wheel and holds against others trying to squeeze me off, but I was the one being squeezed off. Definitely a head game, and I need to go in with a lot more fight. Used to riding 2 - 3 times the distance in a scratch, so pacing was also a learning, especially on the boards. Oh the sweet, sweet boards of Manchester! like riding on silk compared to the concrete tracks back home.
    Next up is Pursuit, which is a head game of another sort :-)

    Any other Forum members out here?

  4. #229
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    Nice Velocirapture. Raced the World Masters when it was in Sydney back in 2009. There are some seriously fast older guys...

    Best of luck with the pursuit.
    http://climbinglama.blogspot.com.au

  5. #230
    No matches Flatballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocirapture View Post
    So, after just over a year on the track, but a whole lot of 'other' cycling experience, I'm incredibly privileged to be in Manchester at World Masters, at the moment. - Mens 35 - 39 kilo gold (Bruce Croall, GBR), just by way of example, was taken in 1:03.252... wow, just soaking it all in.
    My first race was a scratch, and a much bigger field than I race at home (if we're lucky, we'll get a field of >8 in my cat); with 20 riders. No attacks on the gun, but a slow wind up for the first few laps until a rider went off the front, with their team mate keeping the bunch at bay. looked like collusion to me, but I guess any of the other riders who were at the front of the pack could have jumped after the break away. Rider was reeled in eventually, but only due to sitting up, and could have stayed away. A few attacks happened, but none of them big enough to do anything more than string the bunch out for a bit, and the wind up continued. Was expecting another attack at 6 or 5 to go, but the main shift came with ~ 2 to go, when the sprinters came out of shadows. I was well positioned at about 5 to go, but too cautious and lost a few good wheels as a result.
    Finished in the bunch, 7 minutes of racing over, having rode a much too conservative race. Well, to be honest, the level of assertiveness was far higher than I'm used to - I'm normally the rider that gets the wheel and holds against others trying to squeeze me off, but I was the one being squeezed off. Definitely a head game, and I need to go in with a lot more fight. Used to riding 2 - 3 times the distance in a scratch, so pacing was also a learning, especially on the boards. Oh the sweet, sweet boards of Manchester! like riding on silk compared to the concrete tracks back home.
    Next up is Pursuit, which is a head game of another sort :-)

    Any other Forum members out here?
    I'm confused what you mean by this. Isn't track cycling just like normal road cycling? A team sport where you work together to win? As long as they weren't physically blocking or anything I'm not sure the problem.

    Unless there's something in the rule book I missed (possible).
    It's a bike race, not a tea party. - GirlAnachronism

  6. #231
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
    I'm confused what you mean by this. Isn't track cycling just like normal road cycling? A team sport where you work together to win? As long as they weren't physically blocking or anything I'm not sure the problem.

    Unless there's something in the rule book I missed (possible).
    Some track races are not team events, so collusion is not allowed. It is a subjective call by the judges.

    UCI Rules state:

    3.2.002 - Riders shall refrain from any collusion, manoeuvre or movement likely to hinder the conduct or distort the result of the race....

    3.2.003 - If riders wearing the same team clothing ride in the same race, they shall bear some item to distinguish them.
    The only team events at such events are the Team Sprint and Team Pursuit.

    I've seen people get disqualified at Masters Nationals for collusion. Two teammates were in a 3-up match sprint along with a third guy. The judges caught the two teammates looking, gesturing, and/or talking to each other in a meaningful way and they were disqualified.

  7. #232
    No matches Flatballer's Avatar
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    Weird, ok. So like, in just a Scratch race, at your weeknight race, are you not supposed to work with teammates? What about if that scratch race is at the National Championships? How do you know when it's allowed and when it isn't?
    It's a bike race, not a tea party. - GirlAnachronism

  8. #233
    VeloSIRraptor
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    the collusion rule is a strange one - a ref here threatened three of us (all on different teams) with a suspension (not relegation, *suspension*) because a group of us were off the front in a points race and working together, rotating through intentionally to get certain points placings on the sprints.

    We were certainly working together, but it hadn't been pre-determined who was going to win the race... strange conversation to have with the ref given how frequently a group of escapees will work together to make a break work.
    Anyway, no sanctions resulted, we just stood there a bit dumbfounded and nodded along to his speech.

    I have no idea when it is or isn't allowed, it certainly happened with the fast squads at collegiate nats, I guess the trick is to "not do it incorrectly".... whatever that means.
    Heck, by the letter of the law you can't lead anyone out unless you are actively trying to win.
    :/

    Oh, and collegiate nats was a huge blast. It was a pleasure to meet Zitter - my training for next year will look quite different.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  9. #234
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    the collusion rule is a strange one - a ref here threatened three of us (all on different teams) with a suspension (not relegation, *suspension*) because a group of us were off the front in a points race and working together, rotating through intentionally to get certain points placings on the sprints.
    that's really silly to be warned for that.
    when you're in a breakaway that might not stick, somebody's interest IS in your self-interest - so you try to come to a consensus on how to go forward. it's why one might not sprint (which would put you in the red and blow up your cooperation) for points if you're trying to lap the field.

    that rule is ridiculously worded - Riders will refrain from any... maneuver or movement ... likely to distort the result of the race.

    RACING is a movement likely to distort the result of the race.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  10. #235
    No matches Flatballer's Avatar
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    I'm not expert, but that ref certainly sounds like he was overstepping by a ton.

    So basically, I'm not the only one confused about how team racing on the track works. Good to know.
    It's a bike race, not a tea party. - GirlAnachronism

  11. #236
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Two Words: Plausible Deniability

    If you can say that you were just "ridin' my own race" in the end. Then you shouldn't be dinged for collusion.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
    So basically, I'm not the only one confused about how team racing on the track works. Good to know.
    Team racing isn't practiced in all countries Flatballer. Here in Australia there are only a few "team" (club) races on the road per year unless you are racing the NRS (National Road Series). On the track we have one day per year where clubs will field teams for Team Sprint and Team Pursuit.

    Team racing at the World Masters in particular would favour the host country where the vast majority entries are from the country where the race is held.
    http://climbinglama.blogspot.com.au

  13. #238
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    Back to race reports - I can actually post again!

    Last 6 months I had focussed on riding hills for my 3 week holiday to the States to ride as many mountains in CA, CO and AZ as possible. All my training was Z4 or below in preparation (blog in my signature for those interested - 17 days riding in 21 days - 1705km - 42,009m vert - over 5,600km driving). Trip was great but now home it is time to refocus training.

    As the National Track Masters are in my home town mid March, I have decided this is perfect to aim for. We have racing twice a week on the timber indoor velodrome where it is to be held, so I have decided to ride this on Tuesday nights on top of my clubs Saturday afternoon racing that starts this week.

    Tentatively put myself in A grade as that is what I race with my club, but didn't know the ability of those racing Tuesday nights at DISC and was a little concerned due to the number of BT's and other high end bikes hanging on the racks...

    First of 3 races was a Scratch. Fitness was fine and hung okay with the bunch, only being on a wheel too far back 2 laps to go who let a gap open up. I was happy enough to have dusted off the cobwebs and reduced any concerns that I would be majorly outclassed.

    Second race was a short Points race. Missing the top end snap so couldn't contest sprints till the second last sprint where I rode off the front 2 laps to roll over uncontested. Tried the same 3 laps out from the final sprint when everyone sat up. Head said yes; legs said no with one lap to go and was easily passed.

    Final race was a 58 lap motorpace grouping A and B together. Felt pretty comfortable even having to bridge when a B grader blew up in front of me. Missed the jump when the motorbike pulled off and still rode hard to cross in 4th. Training afterall... No top end but to be expected, this will come over the next weeks. Great to be racing again!
    http://climbinglama.blogspot.com.au

  14. #239
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    Last night raced the last round of the Winter Track series. Handicapper placed me in B graded (I normally race A grade on the track) and the organisers limited all competitors max gear to 48*14 which is smaller than I normally race indoors.

    First three races definitely didn't suit. Two lap heart starter, 1000m handicap and 750m handicap. First race somewhere at the back, second noticed front wheel going soft on the first lap so was able to carefully let the backmarkers past before successfully pulling off (metal shaving probably from last years roof repairs) and third towards the back as I didn't feel like bumping shoulders 8 wide across the track.

    Final race was a 50 lap points race. First sprint let the young guys fight for the first points (I was the oldest in the A-B grade combined race). Hit 3 laps out from the second sprint and had one then two bridge across. Pulled half lap turns and a few more bridged over the next 10 laps to make our group now 6 strong. Got involved in the subsequent sprints getting a couple of seconds and a couple of thirds and rolled the final sprint in 5th. Not sure where I ended placing as the results aren't up yet and I'm not too fussed, just happy that my speed is returning so I can start instigating rather than following.
    http://climbinglama.blogspot.com.au

  15. #240
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    Friday night was the first round of club racing for me.

    Track is outdoor 397m circular track with no straight to speak of and very shalow banking. A nice 15-20km/h headwind let you know when you were in the last 200m!

    First race was the traditional 5 lap heart starter. Guy running the night wanted to put me in B grade but I raced all last year in A and I'm aiming to race state masters this season so I need to race A. We're not a big club, so the numbers aren't huge. I'm racing against 6 others. 1 genuine sprinter, 3 strong road riders and 2 unknowns from neighbouring Canberra (we're hoping for more of these guys as their track is now closed for major repairs). Pace was not too hot, just like I remembered last year and a good sprint at the finish I pulled in just behind the bunch. I had the pace to try coming around, but the gap was small and it was the first race so just rolled it in.

    2nd race was a 2 lap handicap. I came in 4th on this one combined with B grade. I don't rate it as I was placed 20m in front of a new B grader, so handicap was way wrong in my book.

    3rd was 3 up sprints with top 2 from B grade. I knew the B grader from above changed from 48/13 to 48/15 so I figured he's not going to have a good top end. Other rider was from Canberra and unknown, but definitely not a sprinter. First lap relatively fast for a sprint and then slowed way down for the final lap. The other 2 were watching each other and let me get 20m or so ahead, so I gunned it for a 400m flat out lap. Top speed was 59km/h according to Garmin (already faster than my top speed from last year at 58.8) and a final 200m of a hand timed 12.68 (fastest A grade was 2/10s slower! Hand timed but I'll definitely take those 2/10ths) into the headwind. Played a big card on that one though, and I may not be allowed to get a lead at the front again!

    4th was an Italian pursuit. I ended up in the winning team on that one at second wheel.

    5th and final was the obligatory 20 lap curtain closer. The fast guys were fairly preoccupied with playing shenannigans, sprinting off and slowing way down up to the fence, us slower guys would go under and pass, and then it'd be on again. This happened a few times and blew the race apart. One of the Canberra guys took off on his own with about 10 to go and almost won. I avoided the surging and just paced along, testing myself moreso than racing. It paid off with the gun sprinter cooking himself in the antics, thus leaving me to pace out around 8 laps on my own. I kept in view of the leaders and came within 20m of getting back onto their bunch before they took off again. Finished a very creditable 6th.

    Over the winter, I raced a few nights on the boards and I was feeling really good, but a bad dose of 2 separate colds threw me out for a month. I didn't train nearly as hard as I should have, and the fitness dropped accordingly. Since then, I have been focussing on getting some fitness back for the summer. I'm really happy with my speed after coming out of winter. I took on a coach over winter, and it seems to have paid off. The final race showed that I seem to have done a good job of getting some fitness back too!

  16. #241
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    Last Friday saw me relegated to B grade. Would love to be a constant A grader, but as a sprinter, I only really get a look in for a couple of races if that. With the attendance of 2 national level sprinters, I was happy to say I'm a B grader, although I would have loved to have raced against them.

    First race was the warmup scratch and I took first. Following was a handicap in which I raced with the A graders and the top half of B. I sat in at second wheel after a good sprint start and just rolled around for the remainder. We had sprints next, followed by a keirin, so I was saving myself. In the sprint for the top of B, I was in too high a gear. I had the speed, but the slower jump saw me in second. I'll have to kick a bit earlier next time.

    I love keirins and the speed coming off the bike. Won this one, but I think I can run a higher gear for next time. I seem to top out at around 130-135rpm with my 175mm cranks. I can spin up in the mid 140s on the old frame with 170s, so I think it's my foot speed topping out. I was running 96.4 all night, but could have easily stepped up to 98 or even 100 with a bigger chainring for the keirin at least. I guess I'll never know if I don't try.

    Final race was the traditional 20 lapper. I stuck it for 10 laps, but with everyone pulling out behind me and with me working on my own again, I got disinterested and pulled out.

    I'm pretty happy with my performance, and keen to try a bigger gear to pull away from the other riders. I've been doing a lot of strength work over winter, so I think I can take it. If I can do that, then I should have a good argument for hitting A grade permanently. I'm off racing for the next 2 weeks though, so I'll be interested to see what happens while I'm away.

  17. #242
    JMR
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    Won my first open wheelrace at the end of last month... thought I would share.

    Went to Townsville (north Queensland, Australia) with a couple of mates to do a big track carnival up there.

    The main race of the carnival is the Townsville Cup on Wheels, which is a 5 lap (333 concrete outdoor) Wheelrace (Men's A,B,C grade handicap).

    I was handicapped at 75m (first A grade rider), you can see me in the bright blue and black kit at 0:43 in the video... I attacked with about 400m to go. You see me at 1:52 just after I have launched.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBQqCY1Deqk

    Hope you like it! I was absolutely blown away to get the win!


    JMR

  18. #243
    Senior Member Impreza_aL's Avatar
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    flying!
    fried chicken and waffles.

  19. #244
    JMR
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    Thanks!

  20. #245
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    Well done! Guy from my club managed to pull second place last year

  21. #246
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Really exciting race and a great finish by you JMR! I loved the way you blocked the 2 guys who had sucked your wheel through the entire move- pinning them down into the traffic!

    I watched it 3 times!

  22. #247
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    Nice ride!

    I did a couple of wheelraces in Japan. Absolute chaos!

  23. #248
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Well done, JMR!! That was impressive!

  24. #249
    JMR
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    Thanks guys.

    JMR

  25. #250
    Senior Member Impreza_aL's Avatar
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    this was from earlier this year i guess i forgot to post it. amateur hour yay!
    fried chicken and waffles.

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