Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-28-14, 11:47 PM   #351
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,540
Raced on the track (Hellyer) tonight for the first time in years. Doing the 5->3 "fast track" upgrade thing since I'm a 2 on the road.

I enjoyed that it's 333m, not 400m like Marymoor up in WA - that always felt way too big for track racing.

Did ok in the omnium, 4th overall. Felt overgeared with 92", not sure if the legs will come around or if I should go smaller. I like to grind on the road but this felt like too much.

Fun stuff!!
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 12:02 AM   #352
Impreza_aL
Senior Member
 
Impreza_aL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Bikes: yellow tricycle di2 grip shifters
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Raced on the track (Hellyer) tonight for the first time in years. Doing the 5->3 "fast track" upgrade thing since I'm a 2 on the road.

I enjoyed that it's 333m, not 400m like Marymoor up in WA - that always felt way too big for track racing.

Did ok in the omnium, 4th overall. Felt overgeared with 92", not sure if the legs will come around or if I should go smaller. I like to grind on the road but this felt like too much.

Fun stuff!!
which group were you in? i decided to race in the 3/4 and hunt for some points... i got first in the omnium =P

when hellyer did a saturday fund raising event for beth, i had a 93 for the scratch and it felt huge... i just figured i haven't ridden the track all winter. gears are finally starting to feel lighter as the season has been progressing. i've been racing 90 in both 3/4 and 1/2/3.

i'm a lowly 4 on the road who can't win if his life depended on it.

Last edited by Impreza_aL; 05-29-14 at 12:27 AM.
Impreza_aL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 01:04 AM   #353
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
which group were you in? i decided to race in the 3/4 and hunt for some points... i got first in the omnium =P
I was in the 3/4's as well - nice work out there!
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 08:17 AM   #354
Brian Ratliff
Senior Member
 
Brian Ratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Near Portland, OR
Bikes: Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
Posts: 10,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
...
Did ok in the omnium, 4th overall. Felt overgeared with 92", not sure if the legs will come around or if I should go smaller. I like to grind on the road but this felt like too much.
...
Is this a 92" like trackies calculate (gear ratio multiplied by 27) or is this a 92" by a true wheel diameter calculation? I ask because the former is right around that 1/2s ride even on a slow track like Alpenrose, and the latter is bigger.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Brian Ratliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 10:02 AM   #355
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
Is this a 92" like trackies calculate (gear ratio multiplied by 27) or is this a 92" by a true wheel diameter calculation? I ask because the former is right around that 1/2s ride even on a slow track like Alpenrose, and the latter is bigger.
It's 48x14.
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 10:10 AM   #356
queerpunk
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,940
y'all are trippin. 92 is a 51x15. 48x14 is a 93.

(based on "27 inch nominal" calculations, which are preferred)
queerpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 11:33 AM   #357
Jaytron
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
 
Jaytron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: CAAD 10 4, Dolan DF4, Fuji Track Classic
Posts: 4,361
48x14 is 92.6
Jaytron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 11:33 AM   #358
Impreza_aL
Senior Member
 
Impreza_aL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Bikes: yellow tricycle di2 grip shifters
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
I was in the 3/4's as well - nice work out there!
thanks. were you in the squadbros kit riding the fuji?

i was in the black skinsuit with teal accents riding the black anchor. i think i remember yelling at you to work with me in the tempo race.

good job out there. reading your sig, i think i need to take some lessons from you in crit racing!
Impreza_aL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 11:35 AM   #359
Impreza_aL
Senior Member
 
Impreza_aL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Bikes: yellow tricycle di2 grip shifters
Posts: 435


i use this.
Impreza_aL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 11:35 AM   #360
Jaytron
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
 
Jaytron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: CAAD 10 4, Dolan DF4, Fuji Track Classic
Posts: 4,361
My race report was: I made it to the end of the scratch, and the end of the tempo. Gotta get better at sucking dat wheel.

Jaytron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 11:39 AM   #361
Brian Ratliff
Senior Member
 
Brian Ratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Near Portland, OR
Bikes: Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
Posts: 10,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
y'all are trippin. 92 is a 51x15. 48x14 is a 93.
...
I call a 51/15 a "small" 92 (actually 91.8"). I call a 48/14 a "big" 92 (actually 92.6").

I like to race mass starts in a 50/15 90". Might just be early season + not used to track that is making the gear seem big. Seems like a 92 would be fine, maybe a little on the big side, but not much, for a cat2 road racer.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Brian Ratliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 11:40 AM   #362
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
thanks. were you in the squadbros kit riding the fuji?

i was in the black skinsuit with teal accents riding the black anchor. i think i remember yelling at you to work with me in the tempo race.

good job out there. reading your sig, i think i need to take some lessons from you in crit racing!
Squadbro ha - yup that was me! =]

I'll give you crit tips, you can give me track tips.
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 11:40 AM   #363
Brian Ratliff
Senior Member
 
Brian Ratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Near Portland, OR
Bikes: Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
Posts: 10,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post


i use this.
Mine's better :


Attached Images
File Type: png Gear Chart.png (93.3 KB, 140 views)
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Brian Ratliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 11:42 AM   #364
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
I call a 51/15 a "small" 92 (actually 91.8"). I call a 48/14 a "big" 92 (actually 92.6").

I like to race mass starts in a 50/15 90". Might just be early season + not used to track that is making the gear seem big. Seems like a 92 would be fine, maybe a little on the big side, but not much, for a cat2 road racer.
Alls I know is when I raced at Marymoor, the rental bikes had a 84" gear or something that felt really tiny, and I wanted something bigger.

I'll probably stick with it for now because I'm too lazy to change it up. And eventually race with the 1/2/3's, they'll make me spin faster!
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 11:49 AM   #365
Brian Ratliff
Senior Member
 
Brian Ratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Near Portland, OR
Bikes: Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
Posts: 10,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
... because I'm too lazy to change it up. ...
So obviously not a sprinter .
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Brian Ratliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 05:19 PM   #366
Hida Yanra
VeloSIRraptor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deschutes
Bikes:
Posts: 4,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
First track night of the year was last night!
<snip>
Lost the race that I was going to win.
Super bummed.

<snip>
And good thing I can come around those two monsters this year.
awww faeces- sorry to hear that (just now seeing this)
You clearly have good legs this year, congrats on being able to come around the monsters this year... go kill 'em tonight!
Hida Yanra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 05:25 PM   #367
Hida Yanra
VeloSIRraptor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deschutes
Bikes:
Posts: 4,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
I'll probably stick with it for now because I'm too lazy to change it up.
I was using a 91" at the end of last year and blowing my races away (enduro, long moves solo or in groups of 2-3)... only found a +93" useful in at nats.
YMMV, my spin-fu is decent

Over the winter at the 200m in BC I was using 84-86" and it felt just fine after the first week or so.
Hida Yanra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-14, 10:43 PM   #368
Impreza_aL
Senior Member
 
Impreza_aL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Bikes: yellow tricycle di2 grip shifters
Posts: 435
forgot to add, yelling at juniors trying to get a free ride in the break.
Impreza_aL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-14, 12:38 AM   #369
jmikami
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Alpenrose - Portland
Bikes: Veloforma for my primary.
Posts: 361
Nice job down in San Jose guys, I hope to make it that way next year. My dance ticket is likely all full this year.

For me a nice start to the mass start races with a 3rd place in the open 1/2/3 category points race.

To get things started I thought I would change up my warm up since I have a heck of a time getting my legs open before a track race. So I took the road bike and planned on a one hour warm up in the hills to get me going. At minute 25 as I was getting ready to turn around WHAM, pothole. Hold my breath ... flat rear, nice. Phone ... no; pump ... no; race starts in 60 minutes ... yes. I said something like bummer ... about 10 times and turn around ... and my front goes flat. Nice.

So in the middle of rush hour traffic on two very twisty, narrow and downhill roads I attempt to ice skate back to the velodrome cursing myself for not bringing my normal gear for my warmup. Luckily I knew a shortcut back and it only took 20 minutes at 10 mph and I only almost crashed twice. Tires are toast, but the rims look fine ... and now I have 30 more minutes to finish my warmup on my rollers back at the velodrome. Man this sucks.

Weather is a bit cold for me and my legs did not get the extra warmup I had planned on, but the race started anyways. I figured I would sit on and draft wheels until the first sprint, which is what I did, but had no chance for points and didn't even try. So with sprinting out I made an effort to get away at around 55 to go ... and it looked a lot more like I was just taking a pull to everyone else, so I went back and pondered what my new plan would be. At 33 laps to go I thought I might as well go for the next sprint or get dropped trying. I made my big effort and took the front on the bell and held it for 2nd at the line, not bad. I continued with my efforts and scored more points at the next sprint and actually moved myself in range of the top 5.

With the top 2 places already secure by two of our local super stars, I knew if I gave it everything for the final double point sprint I had a shot for 3rd so I again went all out and hit the bell in the lead and tried my best to hold it ... but was once again passed on the line by one of our local super stars. However the 3rd place rider didn't score, and it was just enough to slip into 3rd on the night. With two really nice efforts and a couple of minor places I was able to salvage the night and get a decent workout in at the same time.

For those TSS/power racers ... this was my first mass start race with a power meter. 20 minutes @ 228 ave and 278 NP, pretty typical of my road race numbers, but feels much much harder to me - I give myself a 100 for the day including my warmup of 45 minutes and additional 20 minutes of whatever that was. My sprint on the track sucks however and was only 50-60% of the power of my road sprint. So I really need to figure out a way to fix that and get my seated power and high RPM sprint closer to my 53/11 standing road sprint. I raced in the typical 92 (51/15) ... if I was smarter I would race in a 90 and work on leg speed, but I prefer the crutch the extra 2 inches gives me. 88s to 94s are common at our track with most closer to 90.

Overall pretty happy with the way it turned out, only wish I would have been able to dig deep sooner in the race. I guess I bring a pump and spare with me on my next road warmup.
jmikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-14, 08:01 AM   #370
queerpunk
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,940
Gah, a frustrating Track Night last night that started with me flatting my front tubular during warmup.

We started with a 15 lap scratch.When things heated up, some middling guys were fighting me for position and then couldn't accelerate into the sprint. It was a bummer for me to play it so badly because I can and should do better.

I had some revenge in the Miss & Out, sniping suckers until I sat up with 3rd place. I think I could have fought for 2nd but didn't want to burn matches in advance of what promised to be a very fast 10-mi Scratch.

In the 10-mi scratch we set about burning riders off one by one until we were down to 5 or 6 riders. We burned off the guy who won everything last year; that felt good. But then our local with multiple Master's National and World Championships in the IP took off with our local neo-pro junior and got some space fast. Master was burned off the but Junior went on to take a lap; I could only finish 3rd in the sprint (behind Master and his fast-sprinting teammate - what a combo those two are) for 4th place. I was really gunning for something better, and really thought that I pipped one of those two at the line - but the officials saw it otherwise.

As always - there's always next week. In the meantime - state crit championships this weekend and weeknight training crits start up again, and i'll probably double up the 3/4 and 1/2/3 races. For fun.
queerpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-14, 12:44 PM   #371
VanceMac
Senior Member
 
VanceMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Socal
Bikes:
Posts: 4,266
The final in the 4-race Friday Night Racing series again had large fields across the board (except women with only 9). Typically strong 1/2/3 field, while missing a couple of the master big dogs, had all the young guns present. Very fast group.

16k Belgian win-n-out. I was fairly certain I would not be able to out sprint the youngsters here. And I also knew of a couple other candidates to go early and try for 5th place. So I went really early… with 10 to go. I didn’t want anyone coming with me, so got a good jump and was clear of the field. They continued going tempo, so I almost lapped them before coasting the rest of the way into 5th place. I used a fair amount of gas to get that one omnium point, but I was happy with that in this field.

5k Scratch. I went off the front with one of the favorites, and we worked together for 3-4 laps, but it was too early and we pulled up. If we had one more person, I think we could have made a run. But it would have killed me.

10k Points. I figured this would be a bit easier than the 15k version two weeks ago, and it was, but not by much. Because it was shorter, the speeds never let up. I was just managing to hang on through the first two sprints, and then got gapped by someone dropping off the pace after the third sprint. Managed to catch back on and recover for a couple laps. I was pretty cooked, but was hoping everyone else was too and jumped with 3 to go. Got a gap (below) and managed to hold it off to take the final sprint which, surprisingly, gave me 3rd in the race.


Photo: Gus Sarmiento
VanceMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-14, 09:07 PM   #372
Hermes 
Elite Rider
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,657
Nice Vance.
__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle

Cat: Killer
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-14, 02:54 AM   #373
Dalai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 1,950
Very nice indeed VanceMac!
Dalai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-14, 11:35 AM   #374
rensho3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Santa Ana
Bikes: Fuji Elite, 3Rensho track, Trek Madone 6.9, Specialized MTB, GT MTB, Cannondale Cad3 fixie
Posts: 127
Nicely done!
rensho3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-14, 01:34 AM   #375
jmikami
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Alpenrose - Portland
Bikes: Veloforma for my primary.
Posts: 361
Another weekend of racing at Alpenrose, the AVC schedule is posted and the teams are starting to come together for our annual 6 day race.

For me it was a pretty awesome weekend with a 2nd masters pts race, 2nd in the minor keirin final and 6th in open pts race.

First race up was a Madison, and one of the few times I did not race it. My partner for the 6 day stole the local stud, a recent national champ and euro 6 day rider, and road away with the win. It was fun to just watch the madison and it made me think about how crazy that race is. It feels so much easier to race a madison than to watch one, I think I need someone to video me in a madison so I can see myself in such a crazy race.

Next up was the masters points race, and with 3 teammates in the race we went in with a strong plan. I and one teammate would go for the first points setting up my other teammates to go for the next points and hopefully eventually get away. Well the race went just like that. I think I was 2nd in the first sprint, and then went back while my other two teammates went to the front for the next points. Soon after that there was an attack and my teammate covered just like we wanted making 3 riders off the front ... perfect. Then one final rider jumped and I was this close to covering him as 1 of 3 is ok, 1 of 4 when we had 4 was not a good idea.

However I looked and thought it would be ok, as my teammate is pretty good at managing the break, and I could help him with points when they came back around. It did not take long and after 10 laps or so they had made the lap and now it was time to set tempo. There was still one guy left who did not make the lap, so I just set my highest tempo possible at the front and made him suffer for 3 more laps and then continued to set tempo to limit the counter attacks while also giving my teammate a leadout for each sprint. I am petty sure this is the hardest 50 lap points race I have ever done as I set tempo for about 3 laps out of every 5 for the last 20 to 25 laps.

In addition to setting tempo I did my best to ensure that my teamate won the sprint while I held on for at least 3rd to ensure less points for the other riders who took laps. Then on the final double sprint my teammate told me I had to keep going. I thought he was crazy, but he ended up just being smart since by him not passing me I was able to win the final sprint. He ran away with 1st, and I snuck in the back and stole 2nd place away from the other 3 riders who gained laps because of the new 20 point/lap rule and the fact I had snagged so many 2nd and 3rds in addition to the final double points. So win-win for us, I could barely get off my bike, but I really enjoyed the race and was very happy with the team results more than anything. It is soo much easier to ride harder when you have a teammate going for the win.

Next up was the keirin heats, and all I was hearing was how stacked the other heats were. Yeah, my heat had 2 national champs, one the defending 35+ sprint champ and the other a euro 6day rider who is known for sprinting and use the madison for a light warmup. Well I somehow managed the time to change up to a 98 inch gear so I could hold wheels as they jumped up to close to 40 mph ... however even with my perfect position in 2nd place I stopped with one lap to go as I was being passed and knew I had little to no chance to hold them off, so I finished 3rd and earned a spot in the minor final.

In the minor final I had another national champ (we have 3 defending sprint champs at our track) who didn't make the final, but had to be toast as this was his 4th race, and fellow forum racer Mr Ratliff. I figured I would have a little more fun in this one and took the front spot on the motor away from newer racer, then launched what I thought was a decent sprint that I hoped would be enough to hold off the riders from the back. Not to be as Brian Ratliff blew by me on the front straight with more than enough to take the win. Oh well, at least just one of the two sprinters passed me, the others in the minor were more enduros, and the major final was full of sprinters and elite national level enduros. Pretty pleased with my efforts after the points race.

Final race was the 100 lap open points race, I knew going in that I was just there for the training, but even still my goal was just to hold wheels as long as possible. I did not even attempt to sprint for any of the points, and felt dead trying to hold wheels the whole time. Eventually a move went up the road, first 2, then 3 and 4, finally number 5, who was slow to jump up. I really thought hard about the final jump, and I really should have found something to attempt to cover it, but I really didn't want to get dropped trying to catch him, so I just sat in and helped ride tempo for a few laps while we waited for the eventually lapping. At one point someone said we needed to work harder as they were gaining ... um ... they are taking the lap regardless of what we do, and even if they didn't they are going to take all the sprints anyways.

After that attacks continued to fly so I did my best to roll back and forth in the group, but mostly just holding the only speed I could go at that point. For the final sprint I did my best to hold the wheels of those in front and it worked just enough to slip me into 4th place, which given the fact that the top 4 riders took nearly 100% of the previous points meant that I snagged the 5th most points and earned 6th on the day by just holding wheels all day. I didn't really expect that, but I will take it.

Likely one of the best efforts I have given on the track in many years, so while I did not get any wins, I scored it as a perfect day.
jmikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:13 PM.