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  1. #376
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    That's a lot of racing, JM! I'm not sure I could have even lined up for that last 100 after doing a tough 50 and a couple keirins.

  2. #377
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    JMI, great report and racing. I have an observation but certainly not to be taken as a criticism. I only critique myself.

    The fact that you can do that much racing may indicate that you have too much endurance. I see that a lot at Hellyer where roadies come to the track and they can race forever. At training sessions they are always on the track riding around. The trackies sit around more but when they are on the track, they just kill it. The better I get at the track, the worse my FTP gets not that it was ever great. However, in the words of a racing friend who is a 5 time world sprint champion, endurance is a speed killer.

    Even among track events, as my pursuit gets better, I give up some of the ballistic capability I need for the 500. And if I train very hard at the track, I carry a lot of fatigue and need more rest leaving less time for riding.

    The takeaway is everything is a tradeoff and even the most gifted athletes will lose without specification when they run into other gifted athletes that focus. YMMV.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  3. #378
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    The fact that you can do that much racing may indicate that you have too much endurance. I see that a lot at Hellyer where roadies come to the track and they can race forever. At training sessions they are always on the track riding around. The trackies sit around more but when they are on the track, they just kill it. The better I get at the track, the worse my FTP gets not that it was ever great. However, in the words of a racing friend who is a 5 time world sprint champion, endurance is a speed killer.
    I think I agree with you 100% and it is just a matter of jack of all trades or master of one. I am horrible at making choices, and want to be able to win them all ... and obviously that can't happen, especially now that I am in my 40s. In general on the track I want to be the best points racer, and while that takes both sprint and endurance, it is far more endurance ... from a trackie point of view. Although when the roadies come to the track, I am clearly the better sprinter, so it then gets all confusing.
    When I go to the road I am clearly a sprinter only, so at least there it is clear.

    I would agree that focus would help, and my sole goal for the year is to win at what track riders would consider an endurance event ... the pursuit, because trying to win a points race is too much of a lottery and I don't have the pure speed for a track sprinter. But then I so love picking on the sprinters when I get the chance and my road sprinter label still makes me think I am part sprinter, even though I am clearly outclassed by any pure sprinter. So for sure most of my training efforts are all geared towards pursuit distance efforts of 2 to 5 minutes, but it is so hard to give up the idea that I still think I am a sprinter. Keirins are likely my favorite race and I used to win them often when I was young, now not so much.

    Hopefully as things come into focus during August it will all come together and I will figure myself out. Managing that fatigue you mentioned will likely be the most critical aspect of my training over the next 2 months.

  4. #379
    Senior Member Impreza_aL's Avatar
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    forgot to change to my race gearing for the first race. i was the first loser in the omnium.

    didn't help that the races were so short tonight.

  5. #380
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
    didn't help that the races were so short tonight.
    aka "still too long for Jaytron."

  6. #381
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
    forgot to change to my race gearing for the first race. i was the first loser in the omnium.

    didn't help that the races were so short tonight.
    You're killin it out there man - are you close to the 2 upgrade?

    I just got my 5->3 upgrade woo hoo.

  7. #382
    Senior Member Impreza_aL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    aka "still too long for Jaytron."
    10 lap scratch 30 lap points and 7 lap win n out....

    ridiculous!

    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    You're killin it out there man - are you close to the 2 upgrade?

    I just got my 5->3 upgrade woo hoo.
    i don't know. i'm not stressing. track is only for training right? i'll probably race every 3/4 i can until john simmons kicks me out lol. i do know i only have 4 points as a 4 on the road which is making me sad...

    congrats on the upgrade! maybe i'll get to see your real power when you race with the 1/2/3.

  8. #383
    Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter Jaytron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    aka "still too long for Jaytron."


    Quote Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
    10 lap scratch 30 lap points and 7 lap win n out....

    ridiculous!


    Short stuff?! I missed out. I was stuck at work.
    PedalRoom

    Hey I just met you,
    and this is crazy,
    but here's my Strava,
    follow me maybe.

  9. #384
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Race report:

    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  10. #385
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    no short races for us in Oregon, and lots of fast juniors in the 1/2/3 thursday nighter left me in 5th for the night.

    First race up was a 60 lap madison and my team made it 2 exchanges before a crash took out my teammate ... who forgot to wear gloves, nice, at least I got one pull in. So we opted out after that and let the young kids continue to warm up. I had no idea how fast those juniors were going until our 30 lap scratch.

    The scratch race started out ok, then the attacks started and I was left out of the fast group that eventually lapped the rest of us. I did a few pulls in the back group, but as the laps wound down and the lapping was likely to occur so I went to the back to wait for the sprint for 5th. 2 of the riders who lapped the field took off with over a lap to go and I got on their wheel, or at least as close as I could to steal 5th place for the first race on the omnium.

    Next up was the miss-n-out where I was able to nab my favorite spot in 2nd wheel just outside the lead rider. I floated back when I could to get some draft, but mostly stayed just behind his bars to ensure no one passed us. I was able to stay there until 5 riders to go when things started to jostle around a bit and held off for one more before the 3 fast guys on the night lit it up and left me in 4th.

    The only thing left was the 50 ... no 40 lap points race as the sun threatened to depart. That ended up being more than enough as I stayed back for the first few sprints and once again missed the break that went off. I did a few pulls here and there, but they made quick work of it and with the lapping done I nabbed a few 2nd and 3rd place points and then was able to launch a decent sprint at the end of the night, only to be beat by one of the juniors ... again. I must have been 5th or so in the points race and ended up 5th on the night, with 2 juniors ahead of me.

    Nice to see the young riders mixing it up with the lead groups and keep the rest of us on our toes. I got a decent workout in and am one week closer to masters nationals.

  11. #386
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    While I certainly don't have the experience that many of you have, I have learned an important thing this year with my coach : specificity of training. If it pertains directly to being a good points racer , it gets done. If not, it doesn't. So....VO2 intervals = yes 3 hrs climbing in the hills = no. Seems to be working pretty good for me this season.

  12. #387
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    Race report:

    give us the deets!
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  13. #388
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    I participated in my first USAC track night last Tuesday: The Jackie Dunn Memorial at San Diego.

    Background: Second season racing Tuesday night ATRA series in San Diego, complacent cat3 roadie. I feel similarly to jmikami with respect to my road and track racing.

    Short Version:
    It wasn't my night.

    Long Version:
    Being a cat4 on the track, I had two fields available to me: cat4/5 and cat3/4. I decided to pay the extra $5 to make me eligible for both fields.

    Cat 4/5 triple sprint (3x5):
    I took third in this one, but I could have won. During the first race, I was positioned perfectly and just gunned it super hard at 1 to go. I was able to hold my gap.

    I didn't really participate in the second race, as a break of three riders took off and stayed OTF from 3 to go. I wasn't in a great position to respond, and I knew these guys were strong, so I just let them roll in.

    Last race: I blew my load sprinting too early, taking off from second wheel at like 1.5 to go, effectively leading out the sprint. Additionally, I accelerated around the first rider seated, barely going faster. In retrospect, I should have recovered for like 2 seconds, leaving a little gap, and got out of the saddle to sprint into the first rider's draft before coming around. I got nipped before the line by first and second place, both less then 1/2 a bike length ahead.

    Cat 3/4 30-lap scratch:
    *disclaimer: The 1-3 field was too small, and combined with this field.

    I started this race in the very back, which turned out to be a bad idea. A couple strong riders just drilled it from the bell, and I spent the first 6 or 7 laps closing gaps from people who had been blown off the paceline. I got gapped for the millionth time at like 8 laps in and pulled out, partially out of anger. This race was particularly frustrating as there were riders who I regularly beat at TNR that managed to stay in the race.

    Cat 4/5 15-lap tempo:
    There's not much to say for this one either as I wasn't really a player here either. I figured that I would sit in the pack and let some riders burn up some matches for the first few laps, then take some laps at the mid-way point. What happened was that 3 riders stayed OTF the whole time, with no one really willing to chase hard. Bah.


    It just wasn't my night. Additionally, I could be a little better prepared: I've been missing bar end plugs on my track bike for like 3 months, and had to scramble to borrow some before each race, getting me late to the rail.

    Bottom Line: I learned some lessons, and will be more prepared and vigilant next time.
    Last edited by TMonk; 06-07-14 at 01:26 PM.
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  14. #389
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
    give us the deets!
    tempo: hit the front too early, got a bunch of points midrace but then got thoroughly blown outta the water by three riders attacking. two of them scored more points than me.

    sprint: woah! qualified for the final. woah! got myself into perfect position in the final, tucking in behind two real speed demons and surfing to third.

    points race: sprinting for points, chasing attacks, and feeling like a guy without a teammate as the group coalesced - me, and two sets of two teammates. i skipped pulls like a **** and surfed wheels into sprints, but had to chase some attacks. with 20 to go i rolled in 2nd, opting not to sprint, and then it started raining, the officials shot the ******, and declared the results final since 2/3rds of the race had been completed. and i came in second. and i had been one point down - had i known it was the final sprint i'd have sprinted and i'd have won.

    second in my points race, second in the omnium. third place is you're fired.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  15. #390
    Not actually Tmonk TMonk's Avatar
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    Nice! You're really good at coming in second.
    "Your beauty is an aeroplane;
    so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste

  16. #391
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    yeah. it doesn't feel too great. but thanks.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  17. #392
    Senior Member wens's Avatar
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    First races of the season. Small field, missing some people due to a stage race, but:
    Do you think we're gonna make it? / I don't know unless we try \ you could sit here scared to move / or we could take them by surprise

  18. #393
    Senior Member shrinkboy's Avatar
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    i never have a teammate in mass starts. ever. gets lonely and hard. i mostly try to keep flesh in fronta me until the push comes and i hope for the best, but i've committed myself to solo attacks in some upcoming races...it has to be done

  19. #394
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wens View Post
    First races of the season. Small field, missing some people due to a stage race, but:
    Nice job on winning the ominum last Friday. Your 1-2-3 races get all the nice primes! The 3-4 races that I did only had cash primes of $20 and 10$, that I grabbed. I do have scruples and don't sprint for burritos. The Snake Bite Racing Team rep who sponsored the nights races was handing out the prime $ and left before I could collect the $10 prime. I did pick up the $20 prime, and later while on the podium jokingly asked the Snake Bite rider who took third in the ominum to give me his $10 winnings and then collect the prime money from his team rep. How is a guy supposed to make a living racing if people don't pay as promised?
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  20. #395
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Sup y'all.

    I have another close-but-no-cigar race report, this time from the NTC race at the Major Taylor Velodrome. The scratch race had 36 riders, a big, fast field, and with 7 to go there was a Texas Roadhouse rider off the front; the seas parted and I surfed to the front and took a dig to bridge up. Took a look under my arm and saw Liam Donoghue coming after me - this is obviously a good move. Right as the three of us get together, the officials fire the *** to neutralize the race. Apparently there was a very minor crash in the field. We roll around, the officials keep telling us to roll slower, and then with no warning they fire the *** again - race is back on. 6 laps to go.

    I take a full lap pull to get us up to speed - a good-faith effort hoping that my presence as a little-known rider will be tolerated - and immediately regret it. We're taking half-lap pulls on a 333 and in a 3-man move, that one lap isn't quite enough for me to recover from that first pull. And the field is fully single file. The break had restarted from practically a standstill but the field was rolling pretty enthusiastically...

    Coming around on 2 laps to go, I botch an exchange: chalk it up to being unused to fast, hard exchanges on shallow banking. I can't get back on, I float back to the field, the break wins. I hang my head in shame and think about the time I almost podiumed an NTC race.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  21. #396
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    Sup y'all.

    I have another close-but-no-cigar race report, this time from the NTC race at the Major Taylor Velodrome. The scratch race had 36 riders, a big, fast field, and with 7 to go there was a Texas Roadhouse rider off the front; the seas parted and I surfed to the front and took a dig to bridge up. Took a look under my arm and saw Liam Donoghue coming after me - this is obviously a good move. Right as the three of us get together, the officials fire the *** to neutralize the race. Apparently there was a very minor crash in the field. We roll around, the officials keep telling us to roll slower, and then with no warning they fire the *** again - race is back on. 6 laps to go.

    I take a full lap pull to get us up to speed - a good-faith effort hoping that my presence as a little-known rider will be tolerated - and immediately regret it. We're taking half-lap pulls on a 333 and in a 3-man move, that one lap isn't quite enough for me to recover from that first pull. And the field is fully single file. The break had restarted from practically a standstill but the field was rolling pretty enthusiastically...

    Coming around on 2 laps to go, I botch an exchange: chalk it up to being unused to fast, hard exchanges on shallow banking. I can't get back on, I float back to the field, the break wins. I hang my head in shame and think about the time I almost podiumed an NTC race.

    I was registered to race that with you but at the last minute didn't feel like the drive (a solid 8hrs from here). I was also a little intimidated by the massive field and fact I've never raced on a such a 'highway' before. Next time

  22. #397
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Heh, yeah, it was a long way to go. Worth it, though - we stopped in Northbrook for their Thursday night racing, so got a nice 3 days of track racing in. And broke up the drive from Minnesota.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  23. #398
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    36 riders... crazy big! From the opposite end of the spectrum:

    This weekend was the Elite Track State Championships (Southern California-Nevada) at Encino. For various (baffling to me) reasons, these tend to have a relatively light turnout, especially when at Encino, so I was looking to help fill whatever mass start fields needed some bodies. That ended up being the International Omnium, with only 4 entrants. I knew of a lot of people considering it, but I guess the combination of 6 events, with a 2-day commitment (over Father’s Day) kept people away.

    Day 1:
    • Flying Lap. Had never done one, and turns out my line was way off (jumped down coming out of 4, and supposedly that’s too late, need to come down in middle of 3). 16 seconds, 4th place.
    • Points Race. With only 4 entrants, this thankfully got reduced from 120 laps to 80 laps. After the first sprint, everyone playing cat-and-mouse. At one point, everyone pulled up while I was in the pole lane and I just kept going tempo. When I saw I had maybe 50m, I cranked it up a bit. They let me dangle out there until I got about half a lap, at which point I was mildly kicking myself for wasting energy so early in a long slog. Came up on the 60-to-go Sprint, and figured they would keep up their sprint to come around and reel me in. But as soon as they sprinted, they pulled up. Okay, you’re giving me no choice now. I chased them down for the lap and 20pts. With so many sprints, I didn’t think that would be enough, but the top two guys split enough of them to let me take the win.
    • Miss-n-Out. Basically a 4-way match sprint, and the first one was very tight with all 4 of us. Unfortunately, I was called. 4th place.


    Day 2:
    • 4k: I don’t think I had ever done an individual 4k. This thing seemed longer than the Points race! Our track is 252m, and they correct for all distances except for 4k (otherwise, we’d be starting in the corner), so technically this was a 4032m. Missed 2nd place by less than a second (5:23).
    • Scratch: 48 laps. I was mostly concerned with protecting 3rd in the overall. After one of several “see if anyone lets me get a gap” jumps, the 4th place guy is gapped by a few bike lengths. So I hit the gas, towing the other two along. We got about 1/3 of a lap, and I pulled up hoping they would help me drop him. No dice. So I jump back down and chased him down. Win-win… I assure myself of podium in omnium, and the top two get a cushy ride to the sprint. I got a little bonus when one of them was relegated in the final sprint, so I got 2nd place in Scratch.
    • 1k: Despite being a supposed enduro, I’m really pretty fond of the kilo. When I first looked at the schedule, I was thinking no way I can put a respectable kilo at the end of this. And the wind was picking up. Argh. Felt surprisingly okay, though… well, except for some quicksand on that last lap! 1:13.1 for 2nd place.


    Bronze for the omnium.

    Points race lap:
    Photo: Wade Hewitt

    Kilo:
    Photo: Julio Hernandez

  24. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    Heh, yeah, it was a long way to go. Worth it, though - we stopped in Northbrook for their Thursday night racing, so got a nice 3 days of track racing in. And broke up the drive from Minnesota.
    Queerpunk, I was out at NSC last Thursday hoping to catch you and Kruse racing but neither of you were in sight. I really enjoyed watching the races and can't wait to get on the track soon. Planning to stop by again this Thursday for some sweet racing!
    http://www.pedalroom.com/bike/unknown-psx--16196

  25. #400
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    Congrats Vance! Just so you know, while you were doing a kilo, my old bones were watching my PBC work its magic on a shoulder. I even used some of the beer I was drinking in the foil!

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