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-   -   How to incorporate gym days with riding? (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/871934-how-incorporate-gym-days-riding.html)

Jaytron 02-08-13 11:14 PM

How to incorporate gym days with riding?
 
If you guys do legs at the gym, do you ride the same/next day or give your legs a day off to recover? If you do ride, is it low intensity or high? Just looking for some pointers!

Impreza_aL 02-09-13 01:08 AM

if you haven't lifted before and if you get a good lift session you'll probably get really bad DOMS. so a recovery ride would be great the next day. you said you have a team coach you should ask him what to do since be should know what you need.

Nagrom_ 02-09-13 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impreza_aL (Post 15253863)
if you haven't lifted before and if you get a good lift session you'll probably get really bad DOMS.

Is that implying the DOMS will eventually stop/become less severe?

I'm about 3 weeks into lifting seriously, and now I look at stairs differently.

Jaytron 02-09-13 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagrom_ (Post 15254523)
Is that implying the DOMS will eventually stop/become less severe?

I'm about 3 weeks into lifting seriously, and now I look at stairs differently.

It's supposed to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed...uscle_soreness
"Repeated Bout Effect"

Baby Puke 02-09-13 01:33 PM

Doms does eventually almost go away. I just did a couple PBs yesterday and can't feel a thing today.

As far as training goes, I do gym and bike training both hard on the same day, then follow that with a recovery day. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Pantani98 02-09-13 04:40 PM

I'm in the same boat. On some of the harder leg days there's almost no way I could ride the same day. But I do try to at least get in a lower intensity ride to keep the legs moving. Once the season gets underway my thought is to cut back on the more intense lifting. Problem is sometimes I don't listen to myself.

carleton 02-10-13 11:09 PM

You will always be in a constant state of fatigue of some level, but the pain should go away after the 2 week "transition" period. As long as you keep the gas pedal down on your training, you won't be sore anymore...just tired :)

Jaytron 02-11-13 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 15259618)
You will always be in a constant state of fatigue of some level, but the pain should go away after the 2 week "transition" period. As long as you keep the gas pedal down on your training, you won't be sore anymore...just tired :)

I assume when the season starts most people will taper off the weights so they'll be ready to go on race days?

carleton 02-11-13 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 15259703)
I assume when the season starts most people will taper off the weights so they'll be ready to go on race days?

Generally, sprinters lift 3x a week during the off season and 2x a week during the season. Basically trading a lifting day for a race day. Most people race 1x a week.

Enduros that lift, generally lift 1-2x a week in the off season and 0-1x/week when the season starts for the same reason.

Remember, there is no "ready to go" during the weekly races. Wednesday night racing (DLV's weekly race night) was simply part of training. Most competitive racers are only fresh for big races like Nationals or some other big race. Many (like me) only peak once a season. Any other racing (Pro Races, Regionals, other big events) I train straight through them.

I know guys who try to peak 4-5 times a year for every big-ish event in their calendar. But, expressing it that way shows that they aren't familiar with Periodization.

Jaytron 02-11-13 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 15259735)
Generally, sprinters lift 3x a week during the off season and 2x a week during the season. Basically trading a lifting day for a race day. Most people race 1x a week.

Enduros that lift, generally lift 1-2x a week in the off season and 0-1x/week when the season starts for the same reason.

Remember, there is no "ready to go" during the weekly races. Wednesday night racing (DLV's weekly race night) was simply part of training. Most competitive racers are only fresh for big races like Nationals or some other big race. Many (like me) only peak once a season. Any other racing (Pro Races, Regionals, other big events) I train straight through them.

I know guys who try to peak 4-5 times a year for every big-ish event in their calendar. But, expressing it that way shows that they aren't familiar with Periodization.

Perfect. So Mon/Wed/Fri lift, and when the season starts I'll probably trade wed lifting for wed racing. We also have Friday races, I may or may not do those too.

I just started lifting and it's really hard to get a decent ride in, even a day after my lift day. I was told by some teammates/our coach to maybe not be so intense with the weights so DOMS isn't last like 3 days... ahhaha.

Your comment regarding the weekly races is very interesting to me, but makes sense. They're every week, if you were trying to "prep" for them, you'd just be in prep mode all the time. I never thought of them as just another training night.

I'm going to try and represent my team or our track's team (if I'm selected to) in pursuit nationals... they make selections in June... I don't think I'll be fast enough though.

Kayce 02-11-13 01:29 PM

Do you know the track's selection process?

carleton 02-11-13 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 15261328)
Perfect. So Mon/Wed/Fri lift, and when the season starts I'll probably trade wed lifting for wed racing. We also have Friday races, I may or may not do those too.

I just started lifting and it's really hard to get a decent ride in, even a day after my lift day. I was told by some teammates/our coach to maybe not be so intense with the weights so DOMS isn't last like 3 days... ahhaha.

Your comment regarding the weekly races is very interesting to me, but makes sense. They're every week, if you were trying to "prep" for them, you'd just be in prep mode all the time. I never thought of them as just another training night.

I'm going to try and represent my team or our track's team (if I'm selected to) in pursuit nationals... they make selections in June... I don't think I'll be fast enough though.

You may want to schedule a rest (or recovery ride) day after the race day. We tend to push the limits when racing, so that day off to rest (and eat lots) is nice.

DLV's weekly races are literally called "Training Races". DLV only has 4 "real" races per season: 3 Pro Races (which pay money) + Regional Championships (pays medals/jerseys). The rest are simply organized training races. Most other tracks (Frisco, Rock Hill, etc...) have a similar system.

carleton 02-11-13 03:12 PM

So, think of your weekly racing as no different than a gym day, training ride, group ride. It's simply very-specific training of your legs and race skills. But, it's still just training.

You'll only race a handful of times of the year (likely less than 5). Basically, any event with money, medals, or jerseys on the line is a real race :) anything else is training.

Jaytron 02-11-13 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayce (Post 15261578)
Do you know the track's selection process?

I don't, I think they just try and get the fastest dudes in the age group. I'm likely not fast enough lol, but I'll try my best to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 15262032)
You may want to schedule a rest (or recovery ride) day after the race day. We tend to push the limits when racing, so that day off to rest (and eat lots) is nice.

DLV's weekly races are literally called "Training Races". DLV only has 4 "real" races per season: 3 Pro Races (which pay money) + Regional Championships (pays medals/jerseys). The rest are simply organized training races. Most other tracks (Frisco, Rock Hill, etc...) have a similar system.

Makes sense. If I look at it that way, Hellyer only has a few real races a season too. (Although there's a small cash pot every Friday)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 15262055)
So, think of your weekly racing as no different than a gym day, training ride, group ride. It's simply very-specific training of your legs and race skills. But, it's still just training.

You'll only race a handful of times of the year (likely less than 5). Basically, any event with money, medals, or jerseys on the line is a real race :) anything else is training.

Thanks for the tips, this makes me a TON less nervous about the end of March (start of the season).

Kayce 02-11-13 04:56 PM

Also remember that every one will be coming into the start of the season with the same lack of race legs. This means less pressure, but it also means more danger. People are not used to being on the track, and definetly not used to the tight quarters that a race entails. If you can get some on track training days before the season starts. Better if it is with your team or some buddies, but solo is better than nothing.

Jaytron 02-11-13 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayce (Post 15262458)
Also remember that every one will be coming into the start of the season with the same lack of race legs. This means less pressure, but it also means more danger. People are not used to being on the track, and definetly not used to the tight quarters that a race entails. If you can get some on track training days before the season starts. Better if it is with your team or some buddies, but solo is better than nothing.

Definitely.

I've been to two of the mens pursuit training sessions this year and I try to make it to the weekly beginner sessions if there isn't any other event. Unfortunately our "open training" is only open to cat 3+ :C Clearly I just need to get to cat 3.

Impreza_aL 02-11-13 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 15262552)
Definitely.

I've been to two of the mens pursuit training sessions this year and I try to make it to the weekly beginner sessions if there isn't any other event. Unfortunately our "open training" is only open to cat 3+ :C Clearly I just need to get to cat 3.

you don't need to be CAT 3. I go to the open trainings and I'm CAT 6 =) Just get cleared by the supervisor doing the session.

you just have to know what you are doing out there and most importantly being safe!

Jaytron 02-11-13 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impreza_aL (Post 15263022)
you don't need to be CAT 3. I go to the open trainings and I'm CAT 6 =) Just get cleared by the supervisor doing the session.

you just have to know what you are doing out there and most importantly being safe!

Damn, I need to try and come out then. I don't want to get there just to get turned away though. Are you ever turned away?

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 15259735)
Generally, sprinters lift 3x a week during the off season and 2x a week during the season. Basically trading a lifting day for a race day. Most people race 1x a week.

Enduros that lift, generally lift 1-2x a week in the off season and 0-1x/week when the season starts for the same reason.

Remember, there is no "ready to go" during the weekly races. Wednesday night racing (DLV's weekly race night) was simply part of training. Most competitive racers are only fresh for big races like Nationals or some other big race. Many (like me) only peak once a season. Any other racing (Pro Races, Regionals, other big events) I train straight through them.

I know guys who try to peak 4-5 times a year for every big-ish event in their calendar. But, expressing it that way shows that they aren't familiar with Periodization.

Silly question, but the 3 lift days are leg days right? HAHA Just making sure.

Do you guys do upper body at all? I feel that sprinting uses more upper body than I think it does.

Dalai 02-12-13 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 15262055)
Basically, any event with money, medals, or jerseys on the line is a real race :) anything else is training.

That's every race for us. :)

carleton 02-12-13 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 15263820)
Silly question, but the 3 lift days are leg days right? HAHA Just making sure.

Do you guys do upper body at all? I feel that sprinting uses more upper body than I think it does.


Squats every day...then a mix of other stuff.

You have to have decent, but not max, upper body strength. Need to be strong enough (especially in the fingers) to not have your legs pull your hands off the bike.

Baby Puke 02-12-13 04:09 PM

Jaytron, I'm cat 5 and probably always will be as I only do sprint events. The cat 3 rule is not necessarily hard and fast.

Nagrom_ 02-12-13 05:06 PM

So, how do you know if your lifting is accomplishing anything if it no longer hurts? I kinda used that as a benchmark, haha.

TrackMonkey7 02-12-13 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagrom_ (Post 15266650)
So, how do you know if your lifting is accomplishing anything if it no longer hurts? I kinda used that as a benchmark, haha.

If the weight you can lift goes up. Soreness is a poor indicator of development, because as you get better at lifting, soreness tends to go down. Not to mention its exact causes are still unknown.

Lew. 02-12-13 06:44 PM

There was a mention to enduros that lift, wouldn't this be the reverse of developing their efficient and typically weaker muscles?
Sorry if it's obvious, I'm only about to start my first season in track and don't know many people at my track.
I consider myself middle-ground, I can sprint, but not as well as the guys who dedicate to it and I can hold my own in stuff like points/devil events, and I don't lift on a regular basis.

Jaytron 02-12-13 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 15265891)
Squats every day...then a mix of other stuff.

You have to have decent, but not max, upper body strength. Need to be strong enough (especially in the fingers) to not have your legs pull your hands off the bike.

The damn barbells are always taken when I want to do squats. Are there any cons to doing dumbbell squats instead? I've tried non-weighted squats on one of the little balance balls too (no idea what the hell they're called). I always do on leg presses (for some reason I thought one leg> two leg.. maybe to practice stability), and lunges (with dumbbells)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 15266487)
Jaytron, I'm cat 5 and probably always will be as I only do sprint events. The cat 3 rule is not necessarily hard and fast.

Wellllll, I need to get out there it seems. Jeebus.


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