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Old 02-10-05, 03:41 PM   #1
Chazzmeister
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Pista Concept vs. De Bernardi?

I'm looking to build up a track bike for racing (first time doing this) that I'll also probably ride around town for commuting. Is this an oxymoron? I don't want a total P.O.S. for racing but I also don't want some delicate high-performace machine that I'll be afraid to ride around or leave locked up. I ride brakeless fixed-gear on the street and I feel comfortable with it, so there's no need to go for a track frame with drillings in it for brakes. The two frames I'm looking at now in my price range (under $600) are the Bianchi Pista Concept and the De Bernardi Thron Track. I was looking at the Soma Rush and Surly whateverits called, but those look like heavy metal street machines never meant to skim around a velodrome. Given my circumstances, is there a recommendation anyone can give me between the Bianch and the De Bern? Any other frames besides the two I have in mind?
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Old 02-10-05, 04:15 PM   #2
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I wouldn't ride that Bianchi on the street. It's aluminum and stiff as a board. Your hands will be numb from the rough ride. That puppy is track only. I would stick to something steel if you want a dual purpose ride. I've heard mixed reports on the quality of the De Bernardi frames...they seem half-assed to me. You might want to check out those Nessuno frames. http://www.businesscycles.com has them.
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Old 02-10-05, 04:41 PM   #3
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How about Andante . They seem to specialize in track frames.

Their economy frame (4130 chromoly) starts at $400 for a custom build with custom basic paint job. (Add-ons like SS track ends, fancy metallic pearl paint jobs are off course extra.) They also build higher end discipline specific frames.

The contact person is Mauricio Orozco.

I just placed an order for a frame. I was told the turn-around time is about 6-8 weeks.

For your needs, you may well want to go with custom geometry, instead of an off the rack frame. But note, you will need to research what kind of geometry you want before talking to Andante. They will build according to your wishes. So be careful what you wish for. Seat tube angles varying from 73-77 degrees are used on the track. You should also consider HT angle and what kind of fork you plan to use, what rake, what crown to axle length. Also, TT length, since toe overlap is non-critical on the track, but critical on the street. I imagine it would be tough to design and build a dual purpose track bike for the velodrome and street since each have vastly different requirements.

When I get my frame I'll post pics and a write-up.

Best of luck.
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Old 02-10-05, 05:57 PM   #4
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Oh wow thanks so much for the advice guys. I like both of those frame choices...Andante & Nessuno. I'll most likely end up getting one of the two. Unless anyone else has contributions?
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Old 02-10-05, 06:24 PM   #5
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I wouldn't completely discount the Rush btw especially if you get a good deal on one. Its Reynolds 631 and the frame is quite light (4lbs - not bad considering its steel). The geometry is track worthy with good tight angles. About the only realy downsides are that the matching fork is not the greatest and its a little overpriced if bought new IMHO.

Nevertheless I push mine around a track a few times a year and it works pretty good for me but I haven't been racing long. At some point I'll probably upgrade to a dedicated ride but its working for now.

Handles street riding with ease though.
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Old 02-11-05, 12:16 PM   #6
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The low end De Bernardi (I believe the thron tubing) has been know to cheat it's paitn easily. Not so much an issue on the track, but after locking your bike up around town for a couple months, it could get ugly.
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Old 02-11-05, 01:15 PM   #7
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i do own a de bernardi frame, it is however, not built yet. i can say though, de bernardi is drilling the thron frames now, the fork is a sloped crown, and i can tell the paint isn't going to last. that said, 450 dollars for a lugged thron track frame (http://www.worldclasscycles.com) is a fine value in my opinion. [165] and skitbra both own de bernardi thron frames- either of which i'm sure would be more than willing to give you an evaluation of the quality/performance.
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Old 04-11-08, 04:23 PM   #8
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Does Anyone know who wholesale/distributes the de bernardi thron ?
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Old 04-11-08, 07:20 PM   #9
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De bernardi was distributed in the states by Zar International. They closed in early 2007. The Thron track is a good frame.
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Old 04-11-08, 09:43 PM   #10
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the nessuno frames look identical to the EAI Bareknuckles
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Old 04-12-08, 03:36 PM   #11
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The Nessuno is the Bareknuckle.

Also, according to Yellow Jersey, De Bernardi is back. They say "Spring 2008," so I'm guessing that they should show up pretty soon. Email them and ask.

Last edited by bonechilling; 04-12-08 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 04-21-08, 04:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNCLR View Post
I wouldn't ride that Bianchi on the street. It's aluminum and stiff as a board. Your hands will be numb from the rough ride. That puppy is track only. I would stick to something steel if you want a dual purpose ride. I've heard mixed reports on the quality of the De Bernardi frames...they seem half-assed to me. You might want to check out those Nessuno frames. http://www.businesscycles.com has them.
I wish people would stop saying "aluminum track bikes are way to stiff to ride on the road"
I mean come on! That is WAY over exaggerated!!!
Your hands aren't going to go numb from the pot holes; you're not going to ruin your wrists by riding on the streets. If it were that bad, half the messengers in the world would ditch their track bikes and pick up a road bike with 32 tires.

I ride a Cinelli Vigorelli on the streets and it doesn't feel too different from my old steel bike. And last time I checked, my hands still have feeling in them after a 20 mile ride.

(Sorry had to get that out of my system =D)
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Old 04-21-08, 09:46 AM   #13
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Take it to SSFG...
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Old 05-12-08, 08:58 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by crust & crumb View Post
i do own a de bernardi frame, it is however, not built yet. i can say though, de bernardi is drilling the thron frames now, the fork is a sloped crown, and i can tell the paint isn't going to last. that said, 450 dollars for a lugged thron track frame (http://www.worldclasscycles.com) is a fine value in my opinion. [165] and skitbra both own de bernardi thron frames- either of which i'm sure would be more than willing to give you an evaluation of the quality/performance.
that link lists the price as $675 not $450
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Old 05-19-08, 06:59 AM   #15
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that link lists the price as $675 not $450
Yes, 3 years ago! A lot has changed since then...
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Old 05-19-08, 10:40 AM   #16
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Yes, 3 years ago! A lot has changed since then...
that would do it.
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Old 05-19-08, 12:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislee View Post
I wish people would stop saying "aluminum track bikes are way to stiff to ride on the road"
I mean come on! That is WAY over exaggerated!!!
Your hands aren't going to go numb from the pot holes; you're not going to ruin your wrists by riding on the streets. If it were that bad, half the messengers in the world would ditch their track bikes and pick up a road bike with 32 tires.

I ride a Cinelli Vigorelli on the streets and it doesn't feel too different from my old steel bike. And last time I checked, my hands still have feeling in them after a 20 mile ride.

(Sorry had to get that out of my system =D)
Yea, I definitely agree, I saw more than one messenger in NYC riding the Bianchi Pista Concept in
2003-2004. And I also disagree regarding toe overlap being critical on the street, if you are comfortable with your equipment, its not a problem.
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Old 05-20-08, 01:10 AM   #18
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Yeah, a good deal of people ride Concepts or other aluminum bikes on the street.

It's funny, I'll see a craigslist listing from a track guy trying to advertise his Felt/Fuji/other Al bike as "track only" and yet I'm sure 8 out of 10 times a hipster is going to end up buying it anyway...

Toe overlap is a mostly inconsequential thing.
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Old 06-01-08, 06:58 AM   #19
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I miss my tesch and my raleigh prof 74'

:..(
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Old 07-09-08, 09:26 AM   #20
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Agree also on the alu frames. I do ride a Fuji Track Pro exclusively on streets, it's nice, responsive and smooth. Let's take down that urban myth.
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Old 07-09-08, 01:31 PM   #21
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Yeah, a good deal of people ride Concepts or other aluminum bikes on the street.
People especially those that ride track bikes on the street do all sorts of stupid **** that doesn't work well. formerly unwrapped steel track drops, now risers cut to 20cm for instance. Pista concepts are stiff as **** and not exactly comfortable also they aren't built to withstand the abuse of locking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andre nickatina View Post
It's funny, I'll see a craigslist listing from a track guy trying to advertise his Felt/Fuji/other Al bike as "track only" and yet I'm sure 8 out of 10 times a hipster is going to end up buying it anyway...
Most of that is probably about conveying the fact that they didn't treat it like **** and the rest is probably the hope that ones former baby isn't going to get treated like crap by some ****bag who wants to look cool locking up in front of his favorite bar.
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Old 07-09-08, 01:58 PM   #22
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Agree also on the alu frames. I do ride a Fuji Track Pro exclusively on streets, it's nice, responsive and smooth. Let's take down that urban myth.
Wow, you must have a pretty floppy wheelset, seat, and tires, because my Track Pro on the street blows all dicks on the street with Tufo tubulars even, compared to my Van Dessel Country Road Bob and my Look 555.

Too stiff, not especially comfortable seating position beyond two miles or so (in an actual COMPETITIVE TRACK position), the aluminum reverberates and sounds like a tin can, blah blah blah.

But you probably have risers, some cushy seat, and so on.
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