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-   -   Track Racing Frames and Complete Bikes (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/878988-track-racing-frames-complete-bikes.html)

slindell 12-12-13 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wens (Post 16322690)
I wonder how an eccentric is done that doesn't slip under sprint torque. The guys I've known who have used them for chain tension all seem to have had issues at one time or another.

I was wondering the same thing. The eccentric bottom bracket is the biggest pain I have on my single speed mtn bike. With the horizontal dropouts it should be possible to pretty much glue the bb in a single position with locktite since the fine tuning of bb position for chain tension is not needed.
With the BB the only means of chain tension it needs to move with chain wear/stretch and it likes to settle in fixed spots if the BB shell is a little out of round (like after the BB has pressed against it for a while).
One advantage would be that the wheel to frame gap could be fine tuned for a pursuit gear if you didn't mind the BB position change. But it would also make the 5cm saddle setback harder to maintain on the limits.

dro.pru 12-26-13 12:13 AM

This may be the wrong thread to post in (and if it is please direct me to the correct one):

I'm looking to build a track bike for my second season of track cycling. I was only able to compete in the last two months of the season, and bought a cheap complete from bikesdirect.com (please don't judge me). I have a Windsor Hour, and I like the bike however i figure a god winter project would be to build a bike.

I was looking at the Bianchi Super Pista. Does anyone have any thoughts on the frame? I know it's really popular with the hipsters for street cred, but that has no bearing on my decision. I read the article posted in the protips for a beginning racer thread about frame geometry and in my size (59 cm) it would be a a 75° parallel. The article kind of gives the vibe that they are frowned upon.

Since I am relatively new to racing would it just be better to stick with my current bike and maybe invest I would have spent into a dedicated road bike (I'm riding a vintage Marukin from the 70's that doesn't fit well)?

The Super Pista is $800, there was another frame that I was looking at: the Aventon Mataro. This one retails for $350 and looks like a solid frame as well.

anyone's thoughts or opinions?

Kayce 12-26-13 02:13 PM

There are a couple of reasons to avoid those two, even though they're pretty nice bikes. They are only available as frame and fork. That means it will be harder and more expensive to be race race ready, without much benefit for a new racer. Another main sticking point for the Aventon is that its an aluminum fork. If I were in your shoes I would be looking at complete track bikes. Not many of the parts would switch over from your Winsor onto a new frame.

Some of the cheaper quality options are the Felt Tk2 or 3, Specialized Langster, Giant Omnium, and Leader 725.

carleton 12-26-13 02:59 PM

Yeah, also the fork on the Aventon has an offset of 45mm. That is a road fork. It will not handle as well as a track fork (25-40mm) would on the track.

dro.pru 12-27-13 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16360049)
Yeah, also the fork on the Aventon has an offset of 45mm. That is a road fork. It will not handle as well as a track fork (25-40mm) would on the track.


Didnt realize that about the fork. My friend that works in a bike shop suggested replacing the Mataro's fork if i went that way but more on the basis that it was alu and not carbon.


Part of me thinks I should save my money and continue racing/training on my windsor and build up that frame once i get better. I have a tendency to get excited about things and shopping for parts is fun...

carleton 12-27-13 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dro.pru (Post 16360990)
Didnt realize that about the fork. My friend that works in a bike shop suggested replacing the Mataro's fork if i went that way but more on the basis that it was alu and not carbon.


Part of me thinks I should save my money and continue racing/training on my windsor and build up that frame once i get better. I have a tendency to get excited about things and shopping for parts is fun...

If you already have a bike, don't spend money on a "side-grade". Spend money on an upgrade. You have 6 months before racing starts. You might be able to save a lot by then.

dro.pru 12-27-13 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16361038)
If you already have a bike, don't spend money on a "side-grade". Spend money on an upgrade. You have 6 months before racing starts. You might be able to save a lot by then.

What would be considered an upgrade? The windsor is cro-moly, i figured a lighter frame is an upgrade.

carleton 12-27-13 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dro.pru (Post 16361221)
What would be considered an upgrade? The windsor is cro-moly, i figured a lighter frame is an upgrade.

You are right. But, you want to make a good choice. Any aluminum bike won't do.

Look at what others are riding and take cues from them. The Bianchi isn't a bad option. But for $900 ($100 more than the Bianchi frame + fork), you can have a complete aluminum bike like this: http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2014...eries/tk3.aspx

That Bianchi frame is a basic aluminum frame with track geometry.

dro.pru 12-28-13 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16361741)
The Bianchi isn't a bad option. But for $900 ($100 more than the Bianchi frame + fork), you can have a complete aluminum bike like this: http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2014...eries/tk3.aspx

I'm now heavily considering this complete. Part of me just wants to build a frame up for the fun/excitement of it and I thought the Bianchi frame was a good candidate.

ppp 01-06-14 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16360049)
Yeah, also the fork on the Aventon has an offset of 45mm. That is a road fork. It will not handle as well as a track fork (25-40mm) would on the track.

Why is a fork with less offset better for the track?

carleton 01-06-14 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppp (Post 16388513)
Why is a fork with less offset better for the track?

I can't explain why (i'm not a bike builder or engineer). But, track forks have an offset of 25-40mm. 45mm will not handle as nicely as something with a standard track offset. Maybe someone can explain. But it has to do with the angles of the track, speed, and how you maneuver.

Soil_Sampler 01-07-14 06:53 PM

Geometry
 
http://www.urbanvelo.org/issue3/urbanvelo3_p44-45.html

Brian Ratliff 01-07-14 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppp (Post 16388513)
Why is a fork with less offset better for the track?

Track frames usually have steeper headtubes than road frames. This means, if you use a 45mm offset, like with a road fork, on a track frame, the fork trail, or caster, will end up very short and the bike will have problems tracking straight. Track forks have less offset to lengthen the trail back to reasonable levels with the steeper angled headtubes.

Hida Yanra 01-08-14 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soil_Sampler (Post 16391887)

oh, that guy? eh - what does he know about sweet fixies :rolleyes:

thanks, that is my "go-to" for explaining that stuff, saved me the trouble of linking to it :thumb:

ftwelder 01-08-14 05:05 AM

If you stand back a ways from your bike and take a good look at it, you will notice the wheel contacts the ground directly below the axle but if you can draw an imaginary line through the head tube down to the ground, you will see the axle is in front of that imaginary line just a little bit. What you are seeing is fork offset. Combined with gravity, this gives the bike it's tendency to go straight at slow speeds.

If you project this imaginary line down to the ground, you will notice it contacts the ground a few inches in front of where the wheel touches the ground. Measured on the ground this is your trail dimension.

Caster is actually your head angle.

I had a lot of questions in my mind regarding the steering geometry on my track bike as I was building it. Once I rode it, I was blown away by it's stability regardless of the angle of surface or speed. I guess this info doesn't really belong in this tread but I would like to add that I will be building more of those aero frames I did in the fall.

Hida Yanra 01-08-14 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftwelder (Post 16392682)
I guess this info doesn't really belong in this tread but I would like to add that I will be building more of those aero frames I did in the fall.

yeah, but I'm happy to hear it all the same :)

carleton 01-27-14 02:17 PM

I am taking the "2013" off of this thread and just leaving it open-ended.

carleton 01-27-14 02:20 PM

Hoy Bikes: http://www.hoybikes.com/track

HOY Fiorenzuola (MSRP: £750. Approximately $1250USD)
http://www.hoybikes.com/track/94-hoy...ola-track-bike
http://www.evanscycles.com/product_i...track-bike.jpg

Looks like a great entry to mid-level bike. No need to upgrade anything in the near future. Even the chain is a proper track chain (KMC K710). Comes with 48/14 drive train and 38cm bars.

I think this might be my new go-to suggestion for new serious riders!

HOY Meadowbank 650c Kids (MSRP: £450. Approximately $750USD)
http://www.hoybikes.com/track/92-hoy...ids-track-bike
http://www.evanscycles.com/product_i...track-bike.jpg

This kids bike is AWESOME. So many parents have a hard time finding such a bike for young riders.

KlingOn 01-29-14 06:25 PM

Ha, love that pic of the Dolan on the sidewalk. "Perfect urban fixie."

Saw a genius on the Canal du Midi with a Look L96 two weeks ago. I had to gawk at it, obviously, which is obviously why he rides it. It certainly isn't for practicality. Street cred is très chic, nothing like taking your Ferrari to the farmer's market!!

carleton 01-29-14 06:59 PM

I just realized that the Fuji Track Elite is now available as a frameset only. I remember it only being available as a complete bike last year.

http://www.fujibikes.com/images/bike...meset_SIDE.jpg

http://www.fujibikes.com/bike/detail...elite-frameset

MSRP: $2099USD (approximately 1,535 euro)

wens 01-29-14 07:45 PM

Off topic, but does anybody else think it looks completely ridiculous when they photoshop out the entire steerer tube in frameset pics?

Godsight 02-16-14 05:04 PM

For the dolan complete bikes, the sad part is the 130bcd crankset they spec with all their bikes. And there is no option to spec sram omniums.

Hoy bikes are only sold trough Evans cycles and the shipping cost are quite high to the us or canada (about 300$).

There is Boardman Bikes (yes from that hour and pursuit old guy Chris Boardman) that are sold trough Wiggle. The 2014 model is the tk pro which is a bit costlier than the Hoy at 1300$ usd but the shipping to us and canada is more reasonnable at 100$ and it is similary specced with a aluminium frame, omniums crank and a fizik arione saddle. Here is the link : http://www.wiggle.co.uk/boardman-track-pro-2014/

Also for some strange reason, the canadians can get a older (2012 model) tk 9.2 with house branded 50mm tubular carbon wheels and 3t sphinx bars for 1650$ usd or 1800 cad : http://www.wiggle.co.uk/boardman-tk-92/ (if wiggle is set to us for shipping, you won't be able to see it).

8bits 02-16-14 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16451551)
I just realized that the Fuji Track Elite is now available as a frameset only. I remember it only being available as a complete bike last year.

http://www.fujibikes.com/images/bike...meset_SIDE.jpg

http://www.fujibikes.com/bike/detail...elite-frameset

MSRP: $2099USD (approximately 1,535 euro)

it seems like a great price, similar to a DF4, how does it compare Carleton, do you have any experience with it Carleton?

carleton 02-16-14 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bits (Post 16501295)
it seems like a great price, similar to a DF4, how does it compare Carleton, do you have any experience with it Carleton?

I've only seen the 2013 model in person. I have no experience with them. I've never ridden one.

It looks great and has great angles. I wonder seatpost assembly hods up. "Does the seatpost slip?" or "Does it allow the saddle to dip or slide backwards?" are the million-dollar questions.

MarkWW 02-16-14 11:17 PM

A lot of guys had them at t-town last season. I didn't get any direct experience with the bike, but nobody that I talked to about it had any complaints.


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