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  1. #26
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Here's an idea.

    Take 10 top Crossfit Athletes and 10 top Track Cyclists.

    What would happen if the 10 Track Cyclists went to the Crossfit Games and competed against the 10 Crossfit Athletes?
    What would happen if the 10 Crossfit Athletes went to Elite Track Nationals and competed against the 10 Track Cyclists?

    See my point? Training for Crossfit makes one good at Crossfit.

  2. #27
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    yeah, i think it's clear that it's not a zero-sum situation, not an on/off, it-is-or-it-isn't situation. there are some things for which crossfit might be beneficial (some fitness, some core, some strength). there are some things to which crossfit may be detrimental (specificity, form, etc), and it probably depends heavily on what type of athlete you are, what type of gym you go to, and what type of instructor you have. which is to say, crossfit is only one of the variables here.
    Last edited by queerpunk; 11-20-13 at 12:30 PM.
    the hipster myth.

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  3. #28
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    yeah, i think it's clear that it's not a zero-sum situation, not an on/off, it-is-or-it-isn't situation. there are some things for which crossfit might be beneficial. there are some things to which crossfit may be detrimental. it probably depends heavily on what type of athlete you are, what type of gym you go to, and what type of instructor you have. which is to say, crossfit is only one of the variables here.
    I agree.

    I guess the point is that, given limited time/energy/money, what would be the best way to utilize those resources in order to better train for track racing. This thread started with:

    Crossfit for the track?...it seemed like a good program for track cycling (lots of squats, plyometrics)...
    The body can only do so much before it needs to stop, refuel, and recover. So, while one is doing a CF exercise (and subsequently properly recovering from it) one is not doing a cycling-specific exercise.

    This comes up in every program. Track Sprinters overwhelmingly embrace Starting Strength as the basis of a weight training program. Even as a Beginner's Program, it's good enough to achieve what a Track Cyclist needs to ride his bike powerfully. But, one cannot follow the Starting Strength program to the letter because that program assumes that you are not doing anything else during the week. Track Sprinters also do hours of on-the-bike work, too (track efforts, road rides, crits, ergo work, etc...), even during the winter. So, the Starting Strength program MUST be paired-down to its core components: The Squat, The Deadlift, The Power Clean, and a handful of supplemental lifts for muscular balancing. One wouldn't push as hard to progress in their bench press as they would the squat.

    Rippetoe's next book in the series, Practical Programming for Strength Training (also a good read), covers what an intermediate weight lifter would need to know. But, this level of weight training (middle of the road in the weight training world) would only be used for only a small percentage of track sprinters. The basic program is enough (and often more than enough) for the vast majority of track sprinters (and overkill for most other cyclists).

    Now compare that with Crossfit, which covers more lifts than what Track Racers need. It costs $100-200/month (not counting what one spends on cycling gear, fees, coaching, etc...). It makes no allowance for ones road, track, ergo training. It adds, what some consider "useless weight", in upper body mass.

    For cyclists, weight training supplements bike training. For crossfit, weight training is the goal.

    This is why I think that crossfit (even at its finest) is not the best option for a competitive cyclist of any kind.
    Last edited by carleton; 11-20-13 at 01:54 PM.

  4. #29
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Congrats on the new baby!
    Thanks, Carleton
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
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  5. #30
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Here's an idea.

    Take 10 top Crossfit Athletes and 10 top Track Cyclists.

    What would happen if the 10 Track Cyclists went to the Crossfit Games and competed against the 10 Crossfit Athletes?
    What would happen if the 10 Crossfit Athletes went to Elite Track Nationals and competed against the 10 Track Cyclists?

    See my point? Training for Crossfit makes one good at Crossfit.
    Undoubtably true. But take a guy who is pissed because being too heavy kept him from hit best potential in 2011 (hint hint), put him in Crossfit, he leans up, get's stronger legs, a stronger core, and all the gym equipment that any sprinter would love to have available, a coach who can help him with excellent form, who will let you modify wods to meet the needs of sprint training, and suddenly crossfit is a perfect supplement (not replacement!). That would be true for me. For someone who is elite, who is already lean and has been lean for years, then no, Crossfit doesn't make any sense.

    My suggestion to anyone without a coach who is considering crossfit: do research on the coaches and find a gym with qualified coaches who are sticklers on *good form. Tell them you'd like to focus on legs and core and ask if they will allow you to modify your own wods a little bit and see if sometimes you can just go and use their weights to do your own squat and deadlift, etc workouts without doing a wod. And get on your bike a lot, race a lot, and get super fast. And if your goal is to go to the Olympics (you better already be lean), forget about crossfit completely.

    It's been great for me, and that's all I have to say. And per Quinn's comment about Carleton having the best coaches in the country, I have a pretty good one, too and he doesn't really care what I do right now. He basically told me to lean the F up by January, Feb at the latest. He knows I've been doing crossfit, it isn't ideal to him (he's worried I'll be getting bigger upper body, which I already am way too big) but he isn't forbidding me either and he noticed right away last weekend when we met that I am leaning up.

    So when I hit a sub 11, I am going to proclaim that I did it all because of Crossfit! Just to make people mad... just kidding.

    Anyway, good conversation.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
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  6. #31
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    My suggestion to anyone without a coach who is considering crossfit: do research on the coaches and find a gym with qualified coaches who are sticklers on *good form. Tell them you'd like to focus on legs and core and ask if they will allow you to modify your own wods a little bit and see if sometimes you can just go and use their weights to do your own squat and deadlift, etc workouts without doing a wod. And get on your bike a lot, race a lot, and get super fast. And if your goal is to go to the Olympics (you better already be lean), forget about crossfit completely.
    I've tried this exact thing. Not long ago, in 2 cities, I was looking for a gym with bumper plates in order to do power cleans be able to drop the weights to the ground. I thought, "Hey, all CF gyms have all of the squat racks, free weights, and bumper plates that I need." So, I call up at least 4 gyms, and all of the conversations went something like this:

    Me: "Hi. I'm looking for a gym with squat rack, free weights, and bumper plates for power cleans."
    CF: "Yep, we got all of that!"
    Me: "Can I do my own program?"
    CF: "Yes...but only during 'Open training hours'"
    Me: "When are those?"
    CF: "Tuesday and Tursdays from 10-11AM"
    Me: "Can I do my own workout any other time?"
    CF: "No. You must be doing the WOD if you are in the box."
    Me: "No exceptions?"
    CF: "No exceptions outside of the 'Open training hours'"
    Me: "How much per month?"
    CF: "$150 which includes expert instruction"
    Me: "But I've already have expert instruction from a guy who actually contributed to Starting Strength." (referring to Steve Hill)
    CF: "Doesn't matter."
    Me: "Ah. OK. Thanks."

    This happened at multiple CF gyms. Not just one.

    Mark, you have the exception to the rule. Might I ask how much your CF box charges per month?

  7. #32
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    I've tried this exact thing. Not long ago, in 2 cities, I was looking for a gym with bumper plates in order to do power cleans be able to drop the weights to the ground. I thought, "Hey, all CF gyms have all of the squat racks, free weights, and bumper plates that I need." So, I call up at least 4 gyms, and all of the conversations went something like this:

    Me: "Hi. I'm looking for a gym with squat rack, free weights, and bumper plates for power cleans."
    CF: "Yep, we got all of that!"
    Me: "Can I do my own program?"
    CF: "Yes...but only during 'Open training hours'"
    Me: "When are those?"
    CF: "Tuesday and Tursdays from 10-11AM"
    Me: "Can I do my own workout any other time?"
    CF: "No. You must be doing the WOD if you are in the box."
    Me: "No exceptions?"
    CF: "No exceptions outside of the 'Open training hours'"
    Me: "How much per month?"
    CF: "$150 which includes expert instruction"
    Me: "But I've already have expert instruction from a guy who actually contributed to Starting Strength." (referring to Steve Hill)
    CF: "Doesn't matter."
    Me: "Ah. OK. Thanks."

    This happened at multiple CF gyms. Not just one.

    Mark, you have the exception to the rule. Might I ask how much your CF box charges per month?
    $160 and honestly, I'm not positive that without knowing you they'd let someone new just come in and start doing their own thing. After about a month I got to know the owner and he loves that I want to use his box to train for sprinting. But had I asked him on day 1 he probably wouldn't be too thrilled.

    I'm excited to bring my trainer there. I hate working out at home. And they have this huge honkin fan that's taller than me that doesn't get used in the winter so I'll have that all to myself. Oh and the baby... We have a perfect schedule. I feed him at 11 and bring him over for my 12:00 workout and he just crashes out for the hour or so.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
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  8. #33
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    $160 and honestly, I'm not positive that without knowing you they'd let someone new just come in and start doing their own thing. After about a month I got to know the owner and he loves that I want to use his box to train for sprinting. But had I asked him on day 1 he probably wouldn't be too thrilled.

    I'm excited to bring my trainer there. I hate working out at home. And they have this huge honkin fan that's taller than me that doesn't get used in the winter so I'll have that all to myself. Oh and the baby... We have a perfect schedule. I feed him at 11 and bring him over for my 12:00 workout and he just crashes out for the hour or so.
    I used to work at a Country Club as a part time job in college. Are you aware that for less than $160/month you can workout at Country Club level health clubs. I'm talking high-end: New equipment, Free weights, Sauna, Steam Room, Lounges, Beer/Wine Bars, Massages, Juice Bars, AIR CONDITIONING, Tanning, Child Care, Tennis Courts, Valet Parking, Towel Service, Swimming Pools, Basketball, Climbing Walls, Personal Training, Diet Consulting, THE WHOLE NINE!.

    Actually, I once belonged to a gym like that for $80/month (rate was $120/month with a spouse). Also, at the YMCA in Atlanta (Buckhead), I got all of those services (minus valet, beer/wine) for $45/month. They even had a dozen hard and artificial clay tennis courts.
    http://www.ymcaatlanta.org/locations.../sby/sby.shtml

    For what I've seen in the dozen or so "Boxes" that I've been to, It's a big room with stuff scattered about. The locker rooms are bare bones. The equipment is old or aging. The whole, "My buddy's basement gym" vibe. I'd price that value at maybe $15/month and maybe extra $ per hour for personal training from the certified guy to check my form and give tips. At $160/month, it's not a good value in terms of what you can get in a gym.

  9. #34
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    I used to work at a Country Club as a part time job in college. Are you aware that for less than $160/month you can workout at Country Club level health clubs. I'm talking high-end: New equipment, Free weights, Sauna, Steam Room, Lounges, Beer/Wine Bars, Massages, Juice Bars, AIR CONDITIONING, Tanning, Child Care, Tennis Courts, Valet Parking, Towel Service, Swimming Pools, Basketball, Climbing Walls, Personal Training, Diet Consulting, THE WHOLE NINE!.
    For $160 a month- over 12 months, you could own a squat cage, full set of bumpers and build a platform...
    that's what i did..

    it seams like this thread has gotten off track- when someone says "CrossFit" i am thinking group sessions of prescribed workouts.. suddenly we are talking about doing your own thing in a CrossFit gym.. that's not CrossFit... thats just lifting in an overpriced gym

    i am willing to agree that there are some benefits of the CrossFit program for some track racers... but if you are really trying to advance as a sprinter Carleton hits the nail on the head with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    This comes up in every program. Track Sprinters overwhelmingly embrace Starting Strength as the basis of a weight training program. Even as a Beginner's Program, it's good enough to achieve what a Track Cyclist needs to ride his bike powerfully. But, one cannot follow the Starting Strength program to the letter because that program assumes that you are not doing anything else during the week. Track Sprinters also do hours of on-the-bike work, too (track efforts, road rides, crits, ergo work, etc...), even during the winter. So, the Starting Strength program MUST be paired-down to its core components: The Squat, The Deadlift, The Power Clean, and a handful of supplemental lifts for muscular balancing. One wouldn't push as hard to progress in their bench press as they would the squat.

    Rippetoe's next book in the series, Practical Programming for Strength Training (also a good read), covers what an intermediate weight lifter would need to know. But, this level of weight training (middle of the road in the weight training world) would only be used for only a small percentage of track sprinters. The basic program is enough (and often more than enough) for the vast majority of track sprinters (and overkill for most other cyclists).
    (except: i followed the Beginner program "to the letter" and now i do Texas Method from Practical Programming)
    Last edited by Quinn8it; 11-20-13 at 04:21 PM. Reason: additional whit

  10. #35
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    For $160 a month- over 12 months, you could own a squat cage, full set of bumpers and build a platform...
    that's what i did..

    it seams like this thread has gotten off track- when someone says "CrossFit" i am thinking group sessions of prescribed workouts.. suddenly we are talking about doing your own thing in a CrossFit gym.. that's not CrossFit... thats just lifting in an overpriced gym

    Exactly!

  11. #36
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    I used to work at a Country Club as a part time job in college. Are you aware that for less than $160/month you can workout at Country Club level health clubs. I'm talking high-end: New equipment, Free weights, Sauna, Steam Room, Lounges, Beer/Wine Bars, Massages, Juice Bars, AIR CONDITIONING, Tanning, Child Care, Tennis Courts, Valet Parking, Towel Service, Swimming Pools, Basketball, Climbing Walls, Personal Training, Diet Consulting, THE WHOLE NINE!.

    Actually, I once belonged to a gym like that for $80/month (rate was $120/month with a spouse). Also, at the YMCA in Atlanta (Buckhead), I got all of those services (minus valet, beer/wine) for $45/month. They even had a dozen hard and artificial clay tennis courts.
    http://www.ymcaatlanta.org/locations.../sby/sby.shtml

    For what I've seen in the dozen or so "Boxes" that I've been to, It's a big room with stuff scattered about. The locker rooms are bare bones. The equipment is old or aging. The whole, "My buddy's basement gym" vibe. I'd price that value at maybe $15/month and maybe extra $ per hour for personal training from the certified guy to check my form and give tips. At $160/month, it's not a good value in terms of what you can get in a gym.
    Nothing but brand new stuff at our place and it's HUGE. I don't think I could bring my bike and trainer to the YMCA. Or my baby. And I am sensitive to being around people that I like (and those who annoy the hell out of me). The YMCA is full of old guys with beer bellys, and it's awkwardly quiet. Not too inspiring. 24 hour fitness is full of wannabe bodybuilders with crappy form. Country clubs are full of snobs. I'm with my kind of people at my place. And did I mention that I will NEVER have to wait for a squat rack? NEVER. The worst was at 24 hour fitness having to wait for the rack being used by a posse of thugs overloading the bar and going down about 1/4 of a squat, and grunting loudly like they are the business, walking around with their gallon milk jugs full of some sort of hot pink liquid. Incredibly annoying environment. I'm inspired by the people at my "box". They are fit and strong, agile and powerful. That's motivating! It's worth it. You know what's stupid to spend money on? Starbucks. Booze. Fancy restaurants. Watches. Cashmere sweaters. Cars (mine's been paid for for 6 years). I'm a minimalist throughout my life. I buy my clothes on eBay! I like to splurge a little on athletics, whether it makes logical sense or not. I don't think that's a bad vice to have. I'm picky about my workout environment.
    Last edited by mcafiero; 11-20-13 at 04:33 PM.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
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  12. #37
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    Nothing but brand new stuff at our place and it's HUGE. I don't think I could bring my bike and trainer to the YMCA. Or my baby. And I am sensitive to being around people that I like (and those who annoy the hell out of me). The YMCA is full of old guys with beer bellys, and it's awkwardly quiet. Not too inspiring. 24 hour fitness is full of wannabe bodybuilders with crappy form. Country clubs are full of snobs. I'm with my kind of people at my place. And did I mention that I will NEVER have to wait for a squat rack? NEVER. The worst was at 24 hour fitness having to wait for the rack being used by a posse of thugs overloading the bar and going down about 1/4 of a squat, and grunting loudly like they are the business, walking around with their gallon milk jugs full of some sort of hot pink liquid. Incredibly annoying environment. I'm inspired by the people at my "box". They are fit and strong, agile and powerful. That's motivating! It's worth it.
    im with you up to here!
    and the Highlight is brilliant!

    i assume the baby is very young? unfortunately the "bring the baby to the gym" days are short lived...

    THIS IS WHERE YOU LOSE ME!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    You know what's stupid to spend money on? Starbucks. Booze. Fancy restaurants.

  13. #38
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    Nothing but brand new stuff at our place and it's HUGE. I don't think I could bring my bike and trainer to the YMCA. Or my baby. And I am sensitive to being around people that I like (and those who annoy the hell out of me). The YMCA is full of old guys with beer bellys, and it's awkwardly quiet. Not too inspiring. 24 hour fitness is full of wannabe bodybuilders with crappy form. Country clubs are full of snobs. I'm with my kind of people at my place. And did I mention that I will NEVER have to wait for a squat rack? NEVER. The worst was at 24 hour fitness having to wait for the rack being used by a posse of thugs overloading the bar and going down about 1/4 of a squat, and grunting loudly like they are the business, walking around with their gallon milk jugs full of some sort of hot pink liquid. Incredibly annoying environment. I'm inspired by the people at my "box". They are fit and strong, agile and powerful. That's motivating! It's worth it. You know what's stupid to spend money on? Starbucks. Booze. Fancy restaurants. Watches. Cashmere sweaters. Cars (mine's been paid for for 6 years). I'm a minimalist throughout my life. I buy my clothes on eBay! I like to splurge a little on athletics, whether it makes logical sense or not. I don't think that's a bad vice to have. I'm picky about my workout environment.
    These are all opinions...and you are entitled to them but, it's really hard to debate point/counterpoint about opinions In fact, it is almost impossible to debate opinions.

  14. #39
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    THIS IS WHERE YOU LOSE ME!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    You know what's stupid to spend money on? Starbucks. Booze. Fancy restaurants.
    Hahahahaha!

    For those who don't know, Quinn is a renowned chef and restaurant owner.
    Last edited by carleton; 11-20-13 at 05:09 PM.

  15. #40
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Hahahahaha!

    For those who don't know, Quinn is a renowned chef and restaurant owner.
    Well to be fair, I love good food. I'm a food photographer and I'm always on the hunt for those hidden gems. And in my photo that I posted in this thread, Chopped is on the TV behind me.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
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  16. #41
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    These are all opinions...and you are entitled to them but, it's really hard to debate point/counterpoint about opinions In fact, it is almost impossible to debate opinions.
    Well you set yourself up by challenging me on that, Carleton!
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  17. #42
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    i assume the baby is very young? unfortunately the "bring the baby to the gym" days are short lived...
    I realize that. Once he's old enough to get into too much trouble (I assume at about 1 year), I'll be going at 5AM
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
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  18. #43
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    Here's a good thread from the old FGF archives


    http://www.fixedgearfever.com/module...er=asc&start=0


    Regarding Crossfit --- I don't really need to do muscle-ups, kipping pull ups, tire flips or rope climbs to further my goals on the track or in life. My thoughts are the program is overloaded with things like that -- but it does have a lot of good elements -- but heck, one day the WOD was to perform a complete short course triathlon workout (yes - swim, then bike, then run ----- completely stupid - whoever wrote that WOD didn't show much imagination) - another workout involved doing 13.1 miles on the Concept 2 rowing machine -- again, ludicrous (i'm a fan of rowing i'm from Oklahoma City, and our finest training facility is an Olympic rowing facility --- I don't pretend the rowing benefits my cycling at all, but I like to row also --- but 13 miles on the machine when other workouts may be a max of 6k is like telling someone who normally rides a 12 mile loop to go do a century one day at random )

    I like the idea of the military themed workouts (the Murph, Fran, etc. ) --and a few friends of mine who have been at it for over 5 years are in exceptional shape in general ----

    My main question to a would be Cross -fitter would be - "What else are you doing with your life?" -- If someone has aspirations to be on the podium at Masters natz or worlds, then a more focused program would be in order year round ---
    however, X-Fit gives guys who don't have aspirations like that something to do --- and a lot of folks really need something put in writing every day to llow, and the WOD's do that for them

    Interestingly enough though -- although i appreciate the workouts sometimes , my X-fitting buddies have drank heavily from the Koolaid fountain and regard any other workouts, (including my sports specific training) as "beach workouts" and not worthy of their time

    Inside look at the Oklahoma City OTC --- its a cross-fitters dream (or a track cyclist's ) -- tons of bumper plates and no-nonsense/no bs anywhere --- its a great place to workout







  19. #44
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
    --- I don't pretend the rowing benefits my cycling at all, but I like to row also ---
    Kind of how I feel about Crossfit, also. (and those were all good, sensible points)... I don't consider myself a "crossfitter" and I replace the upperbody stuff, usually with box jumps, GluteHamRaises, Double-unders, etc. The HIIT programming is making me noticeably lean (and reflects on the scale, 16 lbs lost in 45 days) and my leg strength is through the roof. I consider crossfit, maybe a customized crossfit, as a great supplement. The change I've seen and felt in myself has been great. Today we started with 6x8 Deadlifts at 65% of our 1 rep max, and the wod included sets of 10 front squats.

    Anyway, I'm burned out on this thread. I'm excited to really start focusing back on sprinting as soon as I lose the rest of my weight, which will be by Jan 1. Last year was an "off year" for me. Got married, traveled for the holidays, went on a honeymoon, sold my business, had a baby. I got fat! I have to credit Crossfit for helping me to lean up... FAST. And I am thankful that they have been really accomodating to me, from allowing me to bring my baby, to allowing me to alter my WODS, or even to do whatever I want to do on my own, and giving me great tips on form.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    . I'm excited to really start focusing back on sprinting as soon as I lose the rest of my weight, which will be by Jan 1. Last year was an "off year" for me. Got married, traveled for the holidays, went on a honeymoon, sold my business, had a baby. I got fat! I have to credit Crossfit for helping me to lean up... FAST..

    I can sympathize with needing to drop the pounds --- I have been on an "off year" for 5 years ---- now I have a coach to help me drop the weight --- he is a triathlete who actually caters to the motocross community (my other racing passion) -- wasn't making a ton of progress until I kicked beer to the curb, -- but I wish to transition back into a more cycling specific program when I get closer to the goal weight.
    Cycling does burn calories, but after 20 years, I had become a very efficient cyclist (not fast, necessarily - but efficient) , I don't burn the calories on the bike as fast anymore, --- doing other things that I am not as good at seems to help me light the fuse a bit better --- i'm sure Crossfit could do similar things for others with their eclectic mix of exercises

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    This is one of the main issues people have with CF: The idea that more reps in a short amount of time is a good thing.

    The body can only do so much. Fine motor control degrades very quickly under stress. Technical lifts simply should not be done this way EVER, much less encouraged as in this competition:



    Yes, incidents happen in normal lifting situations. That's the point. Lifting with heavy weights is dangerous enough on its own. Doing it "the Crossfit Way" is worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    This is one of the main issues people have with CF: The idea that more reps in a short amount of time is a good thing.

    The body can only do so much. Fine motor control degrades very quickly under stress. Technical lifts simply should not be done this way EVER, much less encouraged as in this competition:



    Yes, incidents happen in normal lifting situations. That's the point. Lifting with heavy weights is dangerous enough on its own. Doing it "the Crossfit Way" is worse.
    Carleton the crossfitters wanted me to tell you that every sport is different and that it could be argued that track racing makes you more prone to danger than, say, riding for fitness.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
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    Your gif is not relevant. No other person was involved in that woman dropping the weight on her own head. Her muscles were fatigued and/or her fine motor control gave out...while a barbell was over her head. Not smart.

    My point is that doing such technical lifts in high reps is ill-advised. They are hard enough to do in low reps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Your gif is not relevant. No other person was involved in that woman dropping the weight on her own head. Her muscles were fatigued and/or her fine motor control gave out...while a barbell was over her head. Not smart.

    My point is that doing such technical lifts in high reps is ill-advised. They are hard enough to do in low reps.
    It's totally relevant, Carleton! Some could say that riding your bike on a banked track is ill-advised. The slow guy in my gif was fatigued. He shouldn't have been out there.

    Carleton, I know you refuse to ever be wrong so Ill go ahead and say "you're right". Crossfit is a joke. Carleton wins again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    It's totally relevant, Carleton! Some could say that riding your bike on a banked track is ill-advised. The slow guy in my gif was fatigued. He shouldn't have been out there.

    Carleton, I know you refuse to ever be wrong so Ill go ahead and say "you're right". Crossfit is a joke. Carleton wins again.
    You are not getting my point.

    I am taking objection to the CF mantra of doing things using overhead barbells to exhaustion.

    Doing Snatches to exhaustion is dangerous. Period.

    By all accounts (except CF zealots), Snatches are a highly technical lift not to be taken lightly or done this way.

    Doing Snatches to exhaustion is not the same as doing pull-ups or push-ups to exhaustion. If you fail with those, there is almost no chance of getting hurt.

    Again, comparing an accident in a solo event to an accident in a high-speed group event is comparing apples to oranges.

    Yes, I'm "winning" by making irrefutable points

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