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  1. #1
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    ANOTHER wheel question (rims)

    I'd like to apologize in advance, I've made about three threads recently about my new build (langster pro) but I'm struggling with this.

    I have every component sorted, except the wheels. I'm getting my LBS to build some (their wheel builder is simply amazing).

    I've decided spokes/pattern/amount etc. I'm just stuck on hubs (edging towards Miche, to match my crankset) and rims.

    I've searched for three weeks now, but I can't find track rims that are approx 50mm deep. When I asked about in the shop, all I got out of them was to try Mavic's site and that they feel 50mm would be perfect for my use (outdoor track, maybe once or twice a year indoor). After searching every online shop, every manufacture and every custom wheel build website I could find, I can only find shallow rims or pre-built deep wheels.

    Sorry for the multiple long posts, but after rims, my bike will be finished and I can walk in the shop with a full order.
    Epic/Tarmac/Langster Pro

  2. #2
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Most aluminum rims are 30-35mm deep. Velocity 43 are aluminum 43mm deep and are boat anchors.

    So, basically, any rims around 40mm or more would have to be carbon (i.e. Zipp 404) to not have the added weight (and rotational inertia) penalty.'

    Are you considering carbon?

  3. #3
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    So, I just typed up a long answer which didn't make sense which summed up to:
    Carbon rims look really nice, and those FFWD decals would look so smart on my build... But I can't afford to do it.
    I can afford 150 on rims, maybe 200 at a real push. (Seemed reasonable considering that Velocity's Deep V's (30mm) are 45 per rim).
    And when the most reasonable (carbon) rims that I can find are FFWD F6R-c's at 260 each, carbon is out of the window.
    I hadn't previously thought of carbon, and somehow hadn't thought of the huge rotational mass that deep alloys would have.
    Looks like I'm going for shallow alloys - a shame Mavic don't sell rims that are deeper than 23mm, I'd kill to get me some Mavics (huge Mavic fan, running them on all my bikes except the track).
    Thanks, obviously the reason I couldn't find cheaper deep rims are because they don't exist.
    Epic/Tarmac/Langster Pro

  4. #4
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    Lew you can get some good carbon rims for the pricerange at these sites:
    http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/...0mm_carbon_rim
    http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/road-wheels-prices

    Wheelsmith will sell you just the Gigantex rims, give them a call.

  5. #5
    A little North of Hell
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    Mavic

    you can still find NOS CXP 30 rims, if you look.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    XXXI

  6. #6
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    Thanks, I'll hunt around for NOS.

    Those Planet-X rims... I've only heard bad reviews of Planet-X, but I have no personal experience with them. And seeing 50mm and 100mm at 100... Very tempting, but they're tubular. I've only run clincher and tubular seems to be more messy than it's worth?

    Greatly appreciate the input - genuinely shocked carbon rims can be had for that cheap!
    Epic/Tarmac/Langster Pro

  7. #7
    what. kyle!'s Avatar
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    If this is a track racing wheelset, I would go tubular. You're likely going to want to at some point anyway. If you're on a limited budget you may well be stick with what have for a while so do it right the first time.

    Definitely look for some deadstock CXP 30s. They'll last forever. I have some on a road wheelset. Easily my favorite rims I've ridden.

  8. #8
    VeloSIRraptor
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    The inexpensive option is certainly some low profile clincher rims - they will work just fine.
    In fact, a kid was out at our track last night decimating the P12 field on a Leader frame & DA hubs to clincher Mavic rims. Equipment simply isn't the limiting factor in this discipline until your license says '1'. (Admittedly, he is also the current U18 RR and TT champion)

    My all-around wheels are handbuilts, DA hubs to Open Pro rims - stiff enough at 32 3x to be just fine for racing, training and everything else. They aren't as fun to race on as my trispoke/disc combo - but you will not regret keeping your parts budget low and using the money on entry fees.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  9. #9
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    I've been scouring (sp?) the internet and asking fellow riders, I think I'll ask the LBS when I go in for the parts order and ask for their opinion, they're highly regarded amongst the club (our sponsor) and give honest advice, they aren't salesmen.

    After I've seen the AMClassic 420's I'm edging away from custom builds. But if I do go for a build, I will be going CXP 33's, I've only ever heard how bombproof they are!

    Cheers guys - getting the parts list to the shop next Saturday. Can't wait.
    Epic/Tarmac/Langster Pro

  10. #10
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew. View Post
    I've been scouring (sp?) the internet and asking fellow riders, I think I'll ask the LBS when I go in for the parts order and ask for their opinion, they're highly regarded amongst the club (our sponsor) and give honest advice, they aren't salesmen.

    After I've seen the AMClassic 420's I'm edging away from custom builds. But if I do go for a build, I will be going CXP 33's, I've only ever heard how bombproof they are!

    Cheers guys - getting the parts list to the shop next Saturday. Can't wait.
    Off-the-rack training wheels (the kind that come stock on complete bikes) are JUST FINE for training and beginner/intermediate racing. You can get a pre-built set for $200. They will last years. When you buy them the only thing you'll need to do is:

    - Replace the rim tape with cloth tape (2x$5)
    - Have a mechanic double check the spoke tension ($10 tip)
    - OPTIONAL: Buy Dura Ace nuts for front and rear ($30) (remember that front and rear have different thread pitches)

    No need for custom wheels. Seriously.

    Build a custom wheelset if you want to. But, that's like having custom blue jeans made when there are plenty of different styles of Levi's out there that you can pickup today for less than the custom set and just as good.

  11. #11
    Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter Jaytron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Off-the-rack training wheels (the kind that come stock on complete bikes) are JUST FINE for training and beginner/intermediate racing. You can get a pre-built set for $200. They will last years. When you buy them the only thing you'll need to do is:

    - Replace the rim tape with cloth tape (2x$5)
    - Have a mechanic double check the spoke tension ($10 tip)
    - OPTIONAL: Buy Dura Ace nuts for front and rear ($30) (remember that front and rear have different thread pitches)

    No need for custom wheels. Seriously.

    Build a custom wheelset if you want to. But, that's like having custom blue jeans made when there are plenty of different styles of Levi's out there that you can pickup today for less than the custom set and just as good.
    This.

    Actually adding this to the "new track racer" faq
    PedalRoom

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  12. #12
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    The AMClassics have *really* caught my attention, they kill my budget so they will be bought after the new year. I'll ride my 'standard' rear wheel until then with my Cosmic up front (hex key skewer).

    I saw it said in another thread too, what is the advantage to using a cloth rim tape? I can't figure it out...
    Epic/Tarmac/Langster Pro

  13. #13
    Captain Ramrod taras0000's Avatar
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    Gord Singleton rode a 10:58 F200 in 1980 on a round tube frame with box rim wheels. Ride what you got. Upgrade when stuff gets worn out. Your equipment isn't what's holding you back.
    Taras

  14. #14
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew. View Post
    I saw it said in another thread too, what is the advantage to using a cloth rim tape? I can't figure it out...

    When you pump your tire to high pressures, the tube press outward against the tire, but it also presses inward towards the rim. This presses against thin rubber rim tape which may be cut by the edges of the holes in the aluminum rim. It's uncommon, but it happens. It can easily be prevented with the use of cloth tape.

    The reason this is important is because a slow leak or a blow out on the road doesn't affect much. But even a slow leak can create wonky handling on the banks of the track. A flat and you are candidate to fall over. Not to mention, no brakes, lots of riders in close quarters, banked slopes, etc... Safety is paramount.

  15. #15
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew. View Post
    The AMClassics have *really* caught my attention, they kill my budget so they will be bought after the new year. I'll ride my 'standard' rear wheel until then with my Cosmic up front (hex key skewer).

    I saw it said in another thread too, what is the advantage to using a cloth rim tape? I can't figure it out...
    American Classic 420s aren't that special. They are a 18h front nd 24h rear 34mm deep rim. They ARE NOT worth $899. No way, no how. You can buy a set of used Zipp 808s for close to that. Save your money (seriously).

    Also, ceramic bearings don't buy you much (if anything) over quality steel bearings.

  16. #16
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    Ah thanks, I'll look at what cloth tapes I can find (I've never come across it before).

    The $899/580 seems steep to me too, I've seen them new at 500 (and second hand at 400). Would paying 400/$620 be more 'reasonable'? The LBS has said that they could get them (new) to me 400. (I'm incredibly friendly with the staff/manager, plus they're getting a sale out of me going there for the whole bike).

  17. #17
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew. View Post
    Ah thanks, I'll look at what cloth tapes I can find (I've never come across it before).
    Just ask the shop for Velox tape. It'll be labeled Fond de Jante, cost a buck or two, and is like silk undies for your clinchers.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  18. #18
    Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter Jaytron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    Just ask the shop for Velox tape. It'll be labeled Fond de Jante, cost a buck or two, and is like silk undies for your clinchers.
    I lol'd IRL at this.

    To the OP, just pick up some deep-v's for less than $200 and be done with it for now. Take everyone else's advice and save your money. Or spend it on more important things like chainrings/cogs/training days. Or now since we're approaching the off-season, a gym membership.

    "Cat 5 races are won by bike lengths, not inches. Aero wheels wouldn't have changed your outcome."
    PedalRoom

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  19. #19
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew. View Post
    Would paying 400/$620 be more 'reasonable'?
    No.

    From an arm-chair physicists' point of view: for all intents and purposes, those wheels will perform no better than $200 wheels.

    Ever come across a pair of $200 blue jeans and wonder "Who would buy these?!"? Yeah, it's like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaytron View Post
    I lol'd IRL at this.

    To the OP, just pick up some deep-v's for less than $200 and be done with it for now. Take everyone else's advice and save your money. Or spend it on more important things like chainrings/cogs/training days. Or now since we're approaching the off-season, a gym membership.

    "Cat 5 races are won by bike lengths, not inches. Aero wheels wouldn't have changed your outcome."
    +1

  20. #20
    A little North of Hell
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    Langster Pro

    Build or buy whatever you like, it does not have to practical or pragmatic.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    XXXI

  21. #21
    Senior Member chas58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    American Classic 420s aren't that special. They are a 18h front nd 24h rear 34mm deep rim. They ARE NOT worth $899. No way, no how. You can buy a set of used Zipp 808s for close to that. Save your money (seriously).
    I have them, and I like them a lot. They are light and plenty stiff for me. They accelerate fast, and that is what I need them for. Certainly worth more than Mavic Ellipse wheels (which I have too). Can't say I would pay $900 for them though. ;-)
    Get the Zipps if have the money. The Classics are worth half that if you can find a used set (lots of $2,000 came with them stock).

  22. #22
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    I'm sorry if I'm come across as blunt or ignorant - I just didn't have an idea so was jumping from wheel to wheel regardless of common sense. To save money I'm looking at just getting a rear track wheel now (either Ellipse or second-hand carbon (Corima's are selling cheap on eBay in my area)), as far as I'm aware they're reasonably priced for what they are.
    Oh - and I've budgeted myself to be sensible.

    Thanks guy - I've some to my senses now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soil_Sampler
    it does not have to practical or pragmatic.
    I've been a fan of buying what you like, you're going to ride it after all. But I can't afford it frankly.
    Epic/Tarmac/Langster Pro

  23. #23
    Senior Member chas58's Avatar
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    I got a pair of ellipses for $300 with $100 worth of tires off of ebay/craigslist (after the ebay auction failed, I found the user on Craigs List and bought directly from him). Just make sure you get wheels used on the velodrome as those will be in near mint condition. The urban fixed gear use wheels can be a bit ragged.

  24. #24
    A little North of Hell
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    "Shop smart. Shop S-mart."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew. View Post
    To save money I'm looking at just getting a rear track wheel now (either Ellipse or second-hand carbon (Corima's are selling cheap on eBay in my area)), as far as I'm aware they're reasonably

    I've been a fan of buying what you like, you're going to ride it after all.
    But I can't afford it frankly.

    Shop smart, then you can afford it. Never pay retail.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    XXXI

  25. #25
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soil_Sampler View Post
    Shop smart, then you can afford it. Never pay retail.
    Yup. If you have time, you can find a deal.

    There are LOTS of masters with nice gear that either upgrade or leave the sport entirely and sell their well-kept stuff.

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