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Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

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Old 08-30-13, 06:24 PM   #1
Lew.
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ANOTHER wheel question (rims)

I'd like to apologize in advance, I've made about three threads recently about my new build (langster pro) but I'm struggling with this.

I have every component sorted, except the wheels. I'm getting my LBS to build some (their wheel builder is simply amazing).

I've decided spokes/pattern/amount etc. I'm just stuck on hubs (edging towards Miche, to match my crankset) and rims.

I've searched for three weeks now, but I can't find track rims that are approx 50mm deep. When I asked about in the shop, all I got out of them was to try Mavic's site and that they feel 50mm would be perfect for my use (outdoor track, maybe once or twice a year indoor). After searching every online shop, every manufacture and every custom wheel build website I could find, I can only find shallow rims or pre-built deep wheels.

Sorry for the multiple long posts, but after rims, my bike will be finished and I can walk in the shop with a full order.
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Old 08-30-13, 07:38 PM   #2
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Most aluminum rims are 30-35mm deep. Velocity 43 are aluminum 43mm deep and are boat anchors.

So, basically, any rims around 40mm or more would have to be carbon (i.e. Zipp 404) to not have the added weight (and rotational inertia) penalty.'

Are you considering carbon?
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Old 08-30-13, 10:01 PM   #3
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So, I just typed up a long answer which didn't make sense which summed up to:
Carbon rims look really nice, and those FFWD decals would look so smart on my build... But I can't afford to do it.
I can afford 150 on rims, maybe 200 at a real push. (Seemed reasonable considering that Velocity's Deep V's (30mm) are 45 per rim).
And when the most reasonable (carbon) rims that I can find are FFWD F6R-c's at 260 each, carbon is out of the window.
I hadn't previously thought of carbon, and somehow hadn't thought of the huge rotational mass that deep alloys would have.
Looks like I'm going for shallow alloys - a shame Mavic don't sell rims that are deeper than 23mm, I'd kill to get me some Mavics (huge Mavic fan, running them on all my bikes except the track).
Thanks, obviously the reason I couldn't find cheaper deep rims are because they don't exist.
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Old 08-31-13, 05:33 AM   #4
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Lew you can get some good carbon rims for the pricerange at these sites:
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/...0mm_carbon_rim
http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/road-wheels-prices

Wheelsmith will sell you just the Gigantex rims, give them a call.
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Old 08-31-13, 05:59 AM   #5
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Mavic

you can still find NOS CXP 30 rims, if you look.
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Old 08-31-13, 06:17 AM   #6
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Thanks, I'll hunt around for NOS.

Those Planet-X rims... I've only heard bad reviews of Planet-X, but I have no personal experience with them. And seeing 50mm and 100mm at 100... Very tempting, but they're tubular. I've only run clincher and tubular seems to be more messy than it's worth?

Greatly appreciate the input - genuinely shocked carbon rims can be had for that cheap!
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Old 08-31-13, 08:25 AM   #7
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If this is a track racing wheelset, I would go tubular. You're likely going to want to at some point anyway. If you're on a limited budget you may well be stick with what have for a while so do it right the first time.

Definitely look for some deadstock CXP 30s. They'll last forever. I have some on a road wheelset. Easily my favorite rims I've ridden.
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Old 08-31-13, 12:52 PM   #8
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The inexpensive option is certainly some low profile clincher rims - they will work just fine.
In fact, a kid was out at our track last night decimating the P12 field on a Leader frame & DA hubs to clincher Mavic rims. Equipment simply isn't the limiting factor in this discipline until your license says '1'. (Admittedly, he is also the current U18 RR and TT champion)

My all-around wheels are handbuilts, DA hubs to Open Pro rims - stiff enough at 32 3x to be just fine for racing, training and everything else. They aren't as fun to race on as my trispoke/disc combo - but you will not regret keeping your parts budget low and using the money on entry fees.
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Old 08-31-13, 02:22 PM   #9
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I've been scouring (sp?) the internet and asking fellow riders, I think I'll ask the LBS when I go in for the parts order and ask for their opinion, they're highly regarded amongst the club (our sponsor) and give honest advice, they aren't salesmen.

After I've seen the AMClassic 420's I'm edging away from custom builds. But if I do go for a build, I will be going CXP 33's, I've only ever heard how bombproof they are!

Cheers guys - getting the parts list to the shop next Saturday. Can't wait.
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Old 08-31-13, 04:08 PM   #10
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I've been scouring (sp?) the internet and asking fellow riders, I think I'll ask the LBS when I go in for the parts order and ask for their opinion, they're highly regarded amongst the club (our sponsor) and give honest advice, they aren't salesmen.

After I've seen the AMClassic 420's I'm edging away from custom builds. But if I do go for a build, I will be going CXP 33's, I've only ever heard how bombproof they are!

Cheers guys - getting the parts list to the shop next Saturday. Can't wait.
Off-the-rack training wheels (the kind that come stock on complete bikes) are JUST FINE for training and beginner/intermediate racing. You can get a pre-built set for $200. They will last years. When you buy them the only thing you'll need to do is:

- Replace the rim tape with cloth tape (2x$5)
- Have a mechanic double check the spoke tension ($10 tip)
- OPTIONAL: Buy Dura Ace nuts for front and rear ($30) (remember that front and rear have different thread pitches)

No need for custom wheels. Seriously.

Build a custom wheelset if you want to. But, that's like having custom blue jeans made when there are plenty of different styles of Levi's out there that you can pickup today for less than the custom set and just as good.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 09-03-13, 02:09 PM   #11
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Off-the-rack training wheels (the kind that come stock on complete bikes) are JUST FINE for training and beginner/intermediate racing. You can get a pre-built set for $200. They will last years. When you buy them the only thing you'll need to do is:

- Replace the rim tape with cloth tape (2x$5)
- Have a mechanic double check the spoke tension ($10 tip)
- OPTIONAL: Buy Dura Ace nuts for front and rear ($30) (remember that front and rear have different thread pitches)

No need for custom wheels. Seriously.

Build a custom wheelset if you want to. But, that's like having custom blue jeans made when there are plenty of different styles of Levi's out there that you can pickup today for less than the custom set and just as good.
This.

Actually adding this to the "new track racer" faq
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Old 09-03-13, 04:35 PM   #12
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The AMClassics have *really* caught my attention, they kill my budget so they will be bought after the new year. I'll ride my 'standard' rear wheel until then with my Cosmic up front (hex key skewer).

I saw it said in another thread too, what is the advantage to using a cloth rim tape? I can't figure it out...
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Old 09-03-13, 09:32 PM   #13
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Gord Singleton rode a 10:58 F200 in 1980 on a round tube frame with box rim wheels. Ride what you got. Upgrade when stuff gets worn out. Your equipment isn't what's holding you back.
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Old 09-04-13, 02:07 AM   #14
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I saw it said in another thread too, what is the advantage to using a cloth rim tape? I can't figure it out...

When you pump your tire to high pressures, the tube press outward against the tire, but it also presses inward towards the rim. This presses against thin rubber rim tape which may be cut by the edges of the holes in the aluminum rim. It's uncommon, but it happens. It can easily be prevented with the use of cloth tape.

The reason this is important is because a slow leak or a blow out on the road doesn't affect much. But even a slow leak can create wonky handling on the banks of the track. A flat and you are candidate to fall over. Not to mention, no brakes, lots of riders in close quarters, banked slopes, etc... Safety is paramount.
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Old 09-04-13, 02:12 AM   #15
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The AMClassics have *really* caught my attention, they kill my budget so they will be bought after the new year. I'll ride my 'standard' rear wheel until then with my Cosmic up front (hex key skewer).

I saw it said in another thread too, what is the advantage to using a cloth rim tape? I can't figure it out...
American Classic 420s aren't that special. They are a 18h front nd 24h rear 34mm deep rim. They ARE NOT worth $899. No way, no how. You can buy a set of used Zipp 808s for close to that. Save your money (seriously).

Also, ceramic bearings don't buy you much (if anything) over quality steel bearings.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 09-04-13, 09:15 AM   #16
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Ah thanks, I'll look at what cloth tapes I can find (I've never come across it before).

The $899/580 seems steep to me too, I've seen them new at 500 (and second hand at 400). Would paying 400/$620 be more 'reasonable'? The LBS has said that they could get them (new) to me 400. (I'm incredibly friendly with the staff/manager, plus they're getting a sale out of me going there for the whole bike).
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Old 09-04-13, 09:21 AM   #17
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Ah thanks, I'll look at what cloth tapes I can find (I've never come across it before).
Just ask the shop for Velox tape. It'll be labeled Fond de Jante, cost a buck or two, and is like silk undies for your clinchers.
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Old 09-04-13, 03:57 PM   #18
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Just ask the shop for Velox tape. It'll be labeled Fond de Jante, cost a buck or two, and is like silk undies for your clinchers.
I lol'd IRL at this.

To the OP, just pick up some deep-v's for less than $200 and be done with it for now. Take everyone else's advice and save your money. Or spend it on more important things like chainrings/cogs/training days. Or now since we're approaching the off-season, a gym membership.

"Cat 5 races are won by bike lengths, not inches. Aero wheels wouldn't have changed your outcome."
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Old 09-04-13, 06:06 PM   #19
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Would paying 400/$620 be more 'reasonable'?
No.

From an arm-chair physicists' point of view: for all intents and purposes, those wheels will perform no better than $200 wheels.

Ever come across a pair of $200 blue jeans and wonder "Who would buy these?!"? Yeah, it's like that.

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I lol'd IRL at this.

To the OP, just pick up some deep-v's for less than $200 and be done with it for now. Take everyone else's advice and save your money. Or spend it on more important things like chainrings/cogs/training days. Or now since we're approaching the off-season, a gym membership.

"Cat 5 races are won by bike lengths, not inches. Aero wheels wouldn't have changed your outcome."
+1
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 09-06-13, 05:34 PM   #20
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Langster Pro

Build or buy whatever you like, it does not have to practical or pragmatic.
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Old 09-09-13, 11:52 AM   #21
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American Classic 420s aren't that special. They are a 18h front nd 24h rear 34mm deep rim. They ARE NOT worth $899. No way, no how. You can buy a set of used Zipp 808s for close to that. Save your money (seriously).
I have them, and I like them a lot. They are light and plenty stiff for me. They accelerate fast, and that is what I need them for. Certainly worth more than Mavic Ellipse wheels (which I have too). Can't say I would pay $900 for them though. ;-)
Get the Zipps if have the money. The Classics are worth half that if you can find a used set (lots of $2,000 came with them stock).
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Old 09-09-13, 04:40 PM   #22
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I'm sorry if I'm come across as blunt or ignorant - I just didn't have an idea so was jumping from wheel to wheel regardless of common sense. To save money I'm looking at just getting a rear track wheel now (either Ellipse or second-hand carbon (Corima's are selling cheap on eBay in my area)), as far as I'm aware they're reasonably priced for what they are.
Oh - and I've budgeted myself to be sensible.

Thanks guy - I've some to my senses now.

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it does not have to practical or pragmatic.
I've been a fan of buying what you like, you're going to ride it after all. But I can't afford it frankly.
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Old 09-11-13, 10:36 AM   #23
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I got a pair of ellipses for $300 with $100 worth of tires off of ebay/craigslist (after the ebay auction failed, I found the user on Craigs List and bought directly from him). Just make sure you get wheels used on the velodrome as those will be in near mint condition. The urban fixed gear use wheels can be a bit ragged.
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Old 09-11-13, 06:09 PM   #24
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"Shop smart. Shop S-mart."

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To save money I'm looking at just getting a rear track wheel now (either Ellipse or second-hand carbon (Corima's are selling cheap on eBay in my area)), as far as I'm aware they're reasonably

I've been a fan of buying what you like, you're going to ride it after all.
But I can't afford it frankly.

Shop smart, then you can afford it. Never pay retail.
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Old 09-11-13, 06:23 PM   #25
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Shop smart, then you can afford it. Never pay retail.
Yup. If you have time, you can find a deal.

There are LOTS of masters with nice gear that either upgrade or leave the sport entirely and sell their well-kept stuff.
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