Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31
  1. #1
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Reaching out for help.

    I posted a couple of months ago about making some aluminum track frames. I have made some progress and Tubepro is drawing some tubes for me. I am building two frames for a customer and one for myself. Within a couple of weeks, I will be machining the dropouts and welding some frames.

    I will be using removable track ends like the Tiemeyer frames. I would prefer to use his existing design for the interface so that replacements are interchangeable. I have a CNC mill and design stuff in CAD so coming up with something will be easy but they won't fit anything but my frames. I know the builder has retired.

    If any of you have contact info for the designer/fabricator or a spare insert I could borrow to reverse engineer, it would benefit anyone that may need spares in the future. It really makes no difference to me either way.

    Ill keep you posted on my progress. Thanks for any help you can offer!

    Frank
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  2. #2
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    5,389
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    FTW, I know a couple people with crashed/ruined Tiemeyer frames. I'll see if any of 'em are willing to give or loan you the trackends.

    edit: success! I PM'ed you an email address for a nice man named Andrew who lives in New Jersey.
    Last edited by queerpunk; 09-27-13 at 11:57 AM.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  3. #3
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Thanks a ton! and a noreastr to boot! I sent an email.

    I formed a couple of head tubes yesterday for the project. Both ends bulged to fit 44mm cups. I tried giving it a bit of an aero shape but the first two attempts failed. Ill be going at it again very soon.

    Thanks again!
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  4. #4
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Andrew came through for me BIG TIME and I got the first of the prototype frames done yesterday. I think it looks good but the second one will be a little better. Fun stuff.

    It weighs 1.95kg with the steel track ends for this one with a 55tt and full seat mast. I made some head tubes to fit tapered forks. The bottom is zerostack 1.5 and the top is integrated. The bottom bracket is euro and the frame fits the omni cranks with no spacers.

    It should be ready to ride next week.


    frames 023 by frankthewelder, on Flickr


    frames 022 by frankthewelder, on Flickr


    frames 019 by frankthewelder, on Flickr


    frames 016 by frankthewelder, on Flickr
    Last edited by ftwelder; 11-08-13 at 01:30 PM.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  5. #5
    Senior Member Blue Belly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Vermont
    My Bikes
    Pinarello Montello, Merckx MX Leader, Pinarello Prologo, Tredici Magia Nera, Tredici Cross
    Posts
    434
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nice fit. Where in VT ?

  6. #6
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Belly View Post
    Nice fit. Where in VT ?
    Bellows Falls. A little north of brattleboro. Where are you?
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  7. #7
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    5,389
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Frank, I've been following the progress on instagram. I'm really glad you and Andrew were able to connect, and it's been exciting to see these frames in development. Let me know if you need any a test pilot to take one of these frames to elite track nationals next year
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Blue Belly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Vermont
    My Bikes
    Pinarello Montello, Merckx MX Leader, Pinarello Prologo, Tredici Magia Nera, Tredici Cross
    Posts
    434
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
    Bellows Falls. A little north of brattleboro. Where are you?
    Been through there a couple times. We're up by Waterbury, half way between Burlington & Montpelier.

  9. #9
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    East Bay
    My Bikes
    Kilo TT, CAAD10
    Posts
    9,663
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Damn, that rear tire clearance is pretty.
    These look great. Tiemeyer round 2.


    Great job, keep at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
    No offense but you're an idiot.
    PedalRoom

  10. #10
    JMR
    JMR is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    252
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
    Damn, that rear tire clearance is pretty.
    These look great. Tiemeyer round 2.


    Great job, keep at it.
    Do they still have the UCI rule that you must able to fit a credit card between the leading edge of the rear tire and the downtube?

    JMR

  11. #11
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    East Bay
    My Bikes
    Kilo TT, CAAD10
    Posts
    9,663
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JMR View Post
    Do they still have the UCI rule that you must able to fit a credit card between the leading edge of the rear tire and the downtube?

    JMR
    Nothing mentioned here: http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/ge...I0MDY&LangId=1
    Quote Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
    No offense but you're an idiot.
    PedalRoom

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    87
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The credit card rule is still in effect - see page 72 of http://www.uci.ch/includes/asp/getTa...=FILE&id=34033

  13. #13
    VeloSIRraptor
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    4,277
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    FTW - I'm SUPER stoked that you are making some killer track frames.

    What are you sourcing for tapered forks?
    The bike looks 100% killer.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  14. #14
    JMR
    JMR is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    252
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by slindell View Post
    The credit card rule is still in effect - see page 72 of http://www.uci.ch/includes/asp/getTa...=FILE&id=34033
    The frame looks great FTW... just watch this rule regarding fairing on the rear wheel.

    "A fairing shall be defined as the use or adaptation of a component of the bicycle in such a fashion
    that it encloses a moving part of the bicycle such as the wheels or the chainset. Therefore it should
    be possible to pass a rigid card (like a credit card) between the fixed structure and the moving part."

    JMR

  15. #15
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I wasn't aware of that! There is actually about 2mm between the tire and the back of the seat tube (which is flat/curved). I knew better than to make the cover concave!

    It sounds like one of those "starting gate rules" that can cause a lot of confusion. I have seen frames with tire rub marks on the back of the seat tube and made certain assumptions.

    We haven't ordered forks yet but Serenity Bikes has offered to sell us a few of theirs to try out.

    Thanks for the compliments. I don't really know what the track market is or what custom frames are available and how they compare. I think these are quite stiff but it would be interesting to know if the additional frame width at the bottom and top of the tubes is good or bad in the wind. We have 50% less BB shell showing which is good. Since I am a machine shop, I am not limited to off the shelf parts.

    I don't know a lot about aerodynamics except you that can't see it without the right tools. I don't have those tools.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    87
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
    I wasn't aware of that! There is actually about 2mm between the tire and the back of the seat tube (which is flat/curved). I knew better than to make the cover concave!

    It sounds like one of those "starting gate rules" that can cause a lot of confusion. I have seen frames with tire rub marks on the back of the seat tube and made certain assumptions.

    We haven't ordered forks yet but Serenity Bikes has offered to sell us a few of theirs to try out.

    Thanks for the compliments. I don't really know what the track market is or what custom frames are available and how they compare. I think these are quite stiff but it would be interesting to know if the additional frame width at the bottom and top of the tubes is good or bad in the wind. We have 50% less BB shell showing which is good. Since I am a machine shop, I am not limited to off the shelf parts.

    I don't know a lot about aerodynamics except you that can't see it without the right tools. I don't have those tools.
    As long as you are not concave and have horizontal dropout the fairing rule is not a problem. As you said the pulled wheel is more of an issue on the seat tube or chain stay.
    I like the use of the tapered fork as that seems to be the major flex area for most frames that you feel as a rider. Having stiff chainstays and downtube will help with bottom bracket flex during starts.
    For aero putting an airfoil shape on the head tube would seem like a winner especially for larger frame as that is in clear air. Fitting it around the top and down tubes might be more work than it is worth.
    At some point the UCI will come looking for the certification fee if these are going to be used at the top levels - the classic barrier to entry protecting existing competitors.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hollywood
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
    Posts
    662
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JMR View Post
    The frame looks great FTW... just watch this rule regarding fairing on the rear wheel.

    "A fairing shall be defined as the use or adaptation of a component of the bicycle in such a fashion
    that it encloses a moving part of the bicycle such as the wheels or the chainset. Therefore it should
    be possible to pass a rigid card (like a credit card) between the fixed structure and the moving part."

    JMR
    Hard to imagine this rule coming into play on a frame with a standard "fixed" drive-train.
    Since you need enough chain to get around the cog/ring and then tention it..

    My Tiemeyer looked a lot like this frame- the section of the seat tube opposite the wheel was "V" shaped and the tire would rest against the seat tube when slid all the way in the dropout...

    Great job on the frame!

  18. #18
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by slindell View Post
    As long as you are not concave and have horizontal dropout the fairing rule is not a problem. As you said the pulled wheel is more of an issue on the seat tube or chain stay.
    I like the use of the tapered fork as that seems to be the major flex area for most frames that you feel as a rider. Having stiff chainstays and downtube will help with bottom bracket flex during starts.
    For aero putting an airfoil shape on the head tube would seem like a winner especially for larger frame as that is in clear air. Fitting it around the top and down tubes might be more work than it is worth.
    At some point the UCI will come looking for the certification fee if these are going to be used at the top levels - the classic barrier to entry protecting existing competitors.
    I made some progress on an aero head tube but the result wasn't inspiring. As far as frame stiffness, I think this bike will be good. It has 29mm chain stays.

    Certification fees don't sound like fun. I see how that could dampen enthusiasm if the fee was an exclusionary device.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  19. #19
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hollywood
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
    Posts
    662
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
    Certification fees don't sound like fun. I see how that could dampen enthusiasm if the fee was an exclusionary device.
    Tiemeyer sent my UCI sticker along with a letter announcing that he had closed his shop.. from what i understand he had worked on getting his bikes approved for a long time.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    Tiemeyer sent my UCI sticker along with a letter announcing that he had closed his shop.. from what i understand he had worked on getting his bikes approved for a long time.
    Wow, that is something I didn't consider. I think i had read something about this a couple of years ago, I think builders had or were joining as some type of group to get methods certified rather than builders. I may be mistaken.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  21. #21
    JMR
    JMR is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    252
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    Hard to imagine this rule coming into play on a frame with a standard "fixed" drive-train.
    Since you need enough chain to get around the cog/ring and then tention it..
    Good point!

    JMR

  22. #22
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    YEG
    My Bikes
    See my sig...
    Posts
    25,753
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
    Wow, that is something I didn't consider. I think i had read something about this a couple of years ago, I think builders had or were joining as some type of group to get methods certified rather than builders. I may be mistaken.
    Back in the day when steel was the weapon of choice, Arvon built some rather exceptional time trial frames which he could not get UCI approved because of a dropped / lowered seat tube and chain stay mounted brake... this improved the aerodynamics (less trailing behind the rider) and stiffened the rear triangle and bottom bracket.

    Made for a really fast bike that you could not race in UCI sanctioned events.

    During this period the local builders and designers were putting together the team bike for the '84 Olympics which drew from a number of local builders and fabricators.

  23. #23
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Interesting, I work on Rory O'reilly's bike many years ago and he had lots of odd race bikes. I am not sure how many were accepted.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  24. #24
    Member mickey@spooky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I snapped a couple of pictures before I tossed the frames in my car to take them down to heattreat





    pretty cool in real life.
    Last edited by mickey@spooky; 11-14-13 at 07:35 PM.
    mickey.spooky
    www.spookybikes.com www.facebook.com/spookybikes www.instagram.com/spookybikes

  25. #25
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    10,857
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    Tiemeyer sent my UCI sticker along with a letter announcing that he had closed his shop.. from what i understand he had worked on getting his bikes approved for a long time.
    Yeah, Tiemeyer sent me a sticker earlier this year for the frame he made for me in 2011. Amazing guy.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •