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-   -   Needed: Statistics on Velodromes (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/917928-needed-statistics-velodromes.html)

WMVP 10-14-13 04:59 PM

Needed: Statistics on Velodromes
 
I am in midst of creating a proposal to have a velodrome built in Grand Rapids, Michigan and some constructive criticism I recieved was that I have no statistical proof that velodromes help the community. Does anyone have any stats or numbers they have found? Perhaps how many Olympic athletes come from cities that have velodromes versus cities that do not. Or do bike shop see a rise in exitement about cycling or business after velodromes are built in the area? Thank you all in advance.

carleton 10-14-13 05:49 PM

Here is some information about DLV's youth program that is free for kids in the city of East Point (where the track is located) from ages 8-16 twice a week, 6 months out of the year: http://www.dicklanevelodrome.com/pag...ingleague.html

All equipment and coaching is provided by the velodrome.

Quote:

Our Youth Cycling League program was started in 2003 as a way for us to provide programing for youth and young cyclists in the local East Point area. We run over 50 sessions each year with total youth participation in the program at around 1000.

Each session starts at 5:30pm and be split into 2 x 1hr sessions. The first 1hr session will be for all riders aged 8-12 years old. The second 1hr session will be for kids aged 12-16years old, and selected younger riders who meet a 200m time qualification to be determined by the YCL coaches. The program will continue to be held on Monday's and Thursday's.

When: Every Monday and Thursday from the time change in March through the end of October from:
5:30pm till 6:30pm for kids aged 8-12
6:30pm till 7:30pm for kids aged 12-16

Equipment: Bike and Helmet provided, wear athletic or cycling clothing
Fees: No fee for East Point residents - While our Youth Cycling League program is a free program for participants, we do appreciate your support in helping us keep it going. We are asking that non-East Point families make a once yearly suggested donation of $50, but only if their family budgets allow them to do so.
It's a great program. Here is an article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution: http://www.dicklanevelodrome.com/sys...c_20060717.pdf

carleton 10-14-13 05:53 PM

Also, PLEASE strongly consider making your track at least 250M. That is the UCI standard. You will have a very hard time getting a major USA Cycling event (Jr, Elite, Masters) on a smaller track. You will also attract great competition for regional events.

bitingduck 10-14-13 10:02 PM

Look up Dale Hughes. He's not hard to find, and can probably tell you *way* more about how to do it than any of us can, especially the economics. Also the guys who built Forest City Velodrome in London (a 4 hour drive for you?). His basic model is to crowdsource it from the local community-- that does at least two things a) gets the local community invested in it (because they put up $ and labor to build it) and b) shows the community leaders who you're trying to get additional resources (land, parking, operating funds, whatever) from that you have a big community that wants it and is committed. They crowdsourced the Detroit track before anybody knew what crowdsourcing was.

I'm not sure I agree on the 250 part though-- a 200, or even a 160 is a *lot* of fun and very spectator friendly. USAC Nationals events are overrated from the promoter end-- they're very expensive to put on, and USAC gets to keep most of the money, even a big chunk from any sponsorships you bring in. They make your track visible, but you can put on an NRC event where you pay based on prize list like a regular race, and you get to keep the entry fees, sponsorships, and beer money. We looked into doing Masters nats a few times, and it didn't look like it was worth the trouble.

chas58 10-23-13 12:05 PM

If you are serious, you should talk to Dale in person (although phone would work for starters). He is not that far away from you. He would be the person building your track, right? Either way, I expect he would give you the support you are asking for (and more), if you have the community support mentioned above.

For the Detroit crowdsourcing, we basically got 100 people to donate $1000 to get the project off of the ground (that and tons of volunteer time). In the last couple of years he put in a track in Chicago and Cleveland (The Detroit (IVBP) track was done 10 years ago and resurfaced this year).

A youth development program is a good way to justify community support. Look at how many youth go to track nationals and get awards, rather than the Olympics. That is a whole different kettle of fish.

Made any progress on your quest?

bitingduck 10-23-13 08:45 PM

I think the metal structure for the Vandedrome is still kicking around somewhere, too. I haven't kept track of where it is. IIRC, it fits on a flatbed semi-trailer, but it needs another semi-trailer worth of plywood (>$20K) to put a new surface on it. There's googleable information around, but I think it could be constructed at variable length of 110m up to 170m, and had 55 degree banking. Everyone I know who's ridden it has said it was nuts.

chas58 10-25-13 10:03 AM

Dale has some designs that are semi portable too, like the Chicago one. That can be disassembled, trucked, and reassembled somewhere else. It would take at least 24 hours to take apart, and that again to rebuild. And yeah, that is a fairly large amount of steel and wood to truck around.

chas58 10-25-13 10:04 AM

WMVP One post wonder, or are you learning anything from this discussion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMVP (Post 16160827)
I am in midst of creating a proposal to have a velodrome built in Grand Rapids, Michigan and some constructive criticism I recieved was that I have no statistical proof that velodromes help the community. Does anyone have any stats or numbers they have found? Perhaps how many Olympic athletes come from cities that have velodromes versus cities that do not. Or do bike shop see a rise in exitement about cycling or business after velodromes are built in the area? Thank you all in advance.


WMVP 10-25-13 10:18 AM

I'm a good friend of Dale Hughes and have been talking to him through this entire process. He doesn't have much in the way of statistics though.

WMVP 10-25-13 10:24 AM

I apologize. I didn't realize my post got any responses! I have done a lot of prior research so much of the information I already knew but some of it is new information.

bitingduck 10-26-13 02:41 PM

Not sure if you can get PMs as a new member (I know you can't send them til you're at 25 posts or something). Sent you a pm-- let me know if you can't get it.

kayp 10-26-13 08:44 PM

http://www.meetup.com/Suburban-Cycli...ages/59337872/
this is the best article i could find on Project 250, but Philadelphia is sorta doing the same thing right now. City has given up land but there is still a few hundred million dollars that are needed to be raised from private sponsors. Maybe keep an eye on this and see if any good contact information comes about and then get a hold of someone doing the planning. FWIW they're hoping to have it UCI and olympic approved. Not sure if any of that helps you though.

Kayce 10-27-13 10:22 PM

Here in St. Louis we are pretty far along with the city government on rebuilding our velodrome. Rebuild is very different than new build. But I may have some insight for you. Send me a PM.

WMVP 10-29-13 06:46 PM

Got it! I think I replied but my computer was acting up so it may have gotten lost.

WMVP 10-29-13 06:58 PM

Unfortunately the forum will only allow me to respond to PM, not send them originally. I'd love to hear more!
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayce (Post 16197416)
Here in St. Louis we are pretty far along with the city government on rebuilding our velodrome. Rebuild is very different than new build. But I may have some insight for you. Send me a PM.


WMVP 10-29-13 07:00 PM

It does help! The site listed a few of their, for lack of a better word, arguments on why they need a velodrome. It gives me a few ideas on hard numbers to use.
Quote:

Originally Posted by kayp (Post 16195060)
http://www.meetup.com/Suburban-Cycli...ages/59337872/
this is the best article i could find on Project 250, but Philadelphia is sorta doing the same thing right now. City has given up land but there is still a few hundred million dollars that are needed to be raised from private sponsors. Maybe keep an eye on this and see if any good contact information comes about and then get a hold of someone doing the planning. FWIW they're hoping to have it UCI and olympic approved. Not sure if any of that helps you though.


WMVP 10-29-13 07:18 PM

How sustainable is it? It doesn't seem like a business model like that would last long term. I could be proven wrong though.
Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16160968)
Here is some information about DLV's youth program that is free for kids in the city of East Point (where the track is located) from ages 8-16 twice a week, 6 months out of the year: http://www.dicklanevelodrome.com/pag...ingleague.html

All equipment and coaching is provided by the velodrome.



It's a great program. Here is an article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution: http://www.dicklanevelodrome.com/sys...c_20060717.pdf


chas58 10-31-13 01:35 PM

Now Dale has gone off to Peru to build a track there. That man goes all over the world to build tracks. Grand Rapids would be a lot closer to home though!

If you are one of those with a velodrome vision, you might enjoy this article:
http://www.bicycling.com/news/featur...sion-velodrome


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