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-   -   Not enough rest? (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/923871-not-enough-rest.html)

Jaytron 11-27-13 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff (Post 16284171)
Yea, crazy, but it works and works amazingly well. First hand experience here.

And f- you. Just f- you and all you morning people for forcing us night people to wake up early just to exist in society. ;)

If it were up to me, the everyone's work day would start at 1:00pm and end at 8 and I'd still be able to sit down for a cup of coffee after work.

Hahaha, I bet if you could get to sleep by 10pm every night, you'd be waking up at 6am too!

I'm ok with a 1pm start to the day though...

queerpunk 11-27-13 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16283963)
Not sure what I want to do in track racing yet because I haven't done it yet but I really want to improve my avs for the local road TT. I do feel that I have to put in quite a bit of effort to keep in that cadence zone when doing my intervals but maybe I'm still new at racing and just not use to it yet? Either way I really appreciate everyone's advice and tips!

as a beginner, doing anything that feels hard is going to help you improve. however, something to keep in mind is, eventually you want your training to mimc the conditions that you're preparing for. your average road TT isn't really going to be one minute on, one minute off for 20 minutes - it's going to be full-gas for 30 minutes or however long it is (black dog?).

carleton 11-27-13 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 16284263)
Hahaha, I bet if you could get to sleep by 10pm every night, you'd be waking up at 6am too!

I'm ok with a 1pm start to the day though...

As a "late sleeper" myself, that's what everyone says.

People think that we are lazy and actually want to stay up late and wake late. That's not always the case.

Just like there are people who naturally go to bed and rise early, there are those who naturally go to bed late and rise late. It's simply the body's response to its shifted circadian rhythm. Some people's circadian rhythm is neutral, some early, some late. There isn't much choice in the matter. It can be conditioned to some extent. But, some say not really.

There are even extreme cases of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed...phase_disorder

Quinn8it 11-27-13 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16284366)
you want your training to mimc the conditions that you're preparing for. your average road TT isn't really going to be one minute on, one minute off for 20 minutes - it's going to be full-gas for 30 minutes or however long it is (black dog?).

Im going to disagree on this- at the very least its not simply black and white...

Short duration intervals with limited recovery are a powerful tool and not just for anaerobic capacity. Its been very well documented that sprint interval training has produced similar endurance benefits as classic endurance training.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-in...erval_training

in my personal experience- as a 200lb kilo rider- 1-minute efforts are my bread and butter, and other than a group ride about once a week during half the year, i never do an effort longer than about 3-minutes.. still i have won points races, done very respectable in 20K road TT's, and i promise you- ill be sucking your wheel when they ring the bell in a 60-lap scratch race!

this type of training when done correctly is really effective at building short duration power and lactic tolerance, and longer duration endurance- it also raises your ability to recover between efforts and teaches you to keep turning over the pedals when your brain says stop!

im not advocating that a 20K-TT specialist only do short intervals, but i dont think its the right advice to dismiss their potential

sbs z31 11-27-13 08:17 PM

I heard a lot of good things about interval training that's why I'm giving them a try. I'll rest for a few days and take everyone's advices and keep at it.

Jaytron 11-27-13 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16284370)
As a "late sleeper" myself, that's what everyone says.

People think that we are lazy and actually want to stay up late and wake late. That's not always the case.

Just like there are people who naturally go to bed and rise early, there are those who naturally go to bed late and rise late. It's simply the body's response to its shifted circadian rhythm. Some people's circadian rhythm is neutral, some early, some late. There isn't much choice in the matter. It can be conditioned to some extent. But, some say not really.

There are even extreme cases of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed...phase_disorder

Yeah, my sleep hours have definitely shifted. I used to be more of a sleep later, wake up later kind of person.

Dalai 11-28-13 05:24 AM

No one is dismissing shorter intervals including tabata to help with training for TT's, but specificity is the key... There are many ways to improve FTP (raising this is a fundamental focus for time trialers), the TTer's bread and butter intervals though will be 95-105% FTP - 3*15 or 2*20 and sweet spot sessions.

In regards to sleeping and naps. Another benefit to napping is the body naturally secretes the most HGH within 30-70 minutes of sleep... Go through this stage twice in the day means more natural HGH!

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/105893/pdf

sbs z31 12-02-13 11:23 PM

Update, I've been off the bike since last Wednesday and got back on it today. Did 20min warm up follow by a 1-2-3-3-2-1 pyramid interval and boy it felt awesome. I guess lack of sleep was really getting the best of me and I now decided to use the weekends to recover and be off the bike, only two interval session per week.

carleton 12-03-13 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16296142)
Update, I've been off the bike since last Wednesday and got back on it today. Did 20min warm up follow by a 1-2-3-3-2-1 pyramid interval and boy it felt awesome. I guess lack of sleep was really getting the best of me and I now decided to use the weekends to recover and be off the bike, only two interval session per week.

Glad to hear that.

Some people do a long/hard day on Saturday when they don't have to worry about work and then rest fully on Sunday. And/Or consider building in an off day during the week.

Remember, muscle growth and adaptation happens when you sleep, not when you are on the bike.

Racer Ex 12-07-13 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16284630)
im not advocating that a 20K-TT specialist only do short intervals, but i dont think its the right advice to dismiss their potential

Not sure how long his TT's are, if it's 20 or 40 or 5k. But short intervals are the icing on the cake. You still need a cake pan and a cake before the icing.

Step one is to ride the TT bike while you train. A lot. Then learn to time trial.

wens 12-07-13 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16308806)
Then learn to time trial.

I need to do this. I might have to do some of the local tt series or something, because I'm terrible at any road tt, even when aero equip is severely restricted.

Racer Ex 12-08-13 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wens (Post 16310928)
I need to do this. I might have to do some of the local tt series or something, because I'm terrible at any road tt, even when aero equip is severely restricted.

Even on simple courses you can have the same wattage average produce a 3-5% different result. On a more technical course that number can grow considerably.


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