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  1. #251
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chainring View Post
    Do like riding at the front or at the back in a miss and out.

    I'm never a contender in a miss-n-out. I'm just pack fodder.

    I usually ride from near the front because I can't handle the surges that occur in the back. I treat it like a time trial and hang on till I pop. If I can, I'll provide shelter for a teammate or let him in front of me so he can live for another lap or two.

  2. #252
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayce View Post
    Depends on the field. Smaller fields I like to be around the back the whole way. But a big field I will stay up front for the first half. Playing the devil the whole race is a lot of fun, but wears you out. It is good for working on points race skills. So sometimes I will be devilin' as long as I can.
    Heck - I'll second this whole thing.
    In the 3s this last year (to be clear about my lack of elite level knowledge , I played the devil for the first 4-5 sprints, and then would keep that momentum going to head to the front and ride the front bits. It certainly depended on who was in the field and how they were riding. As the saying goes, if I didn't see the sucker at the table, well, I'd move up sooner. It took me an entire year of riding these races to figure out how/when/where to move around.

    I credit a bunch of the sprinting in those races as a help in improving my sprinting in points races.

    Of note - as a pursuiter sort of guy, I'm only at the back to work on sprinting and the others at my track know it. Whenever things get hot, or if there are a legit group of sprinters at the back, I'll be far away.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  3. #253
    :p Harun's Avatar
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    the trick for points races is to lap the field and get 20 points, then hang on for dear life to try to keep them.

  4. #254
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harun View Post
    the trick for points races is to lap the field and get 20 points, then hang on for dear life to try to keep them.
    At DLV we had monthly Pursuit Nights where we did pairs of pursuits. The track is 327M long. Randomly a young guy (21?) was matched up with an older guy (50?) in a 3K. I watched as the young guy launched off from the start super fast to try to catch the old guy within a few laps for the win. The young guy died a horrible death on the bike. Afterwards I asked him about it. He was like, "I thought...I thought I could do it."

  5. #255
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harun View Post
    the trick for points races is to lap the field and get 20 points
    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    He was like, "I thought...I thought I could do it."
    Up here at the 400m runway, lapping the field is a strategy of broken dreams and sadness.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  6. #256
    :p Harun's Avatar
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    Speaking of dying on a bike, Australian pursuits have to be both the funnest and most painful track events I've ever done. It feels like persistence hunting by the time there are only two guys on the track.

  7. #257
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    Up here at the 400m runway, lapping the field is a strategy of broken dreams and sadness.
    even at NSC (250), we rarely see a lap taken in an elite points race. there's usually a select number of people competing for points, and a field that's big enough to go fast even if the riders aren't fast enough to seriously compete for points against the main competition. people are tenacious and pugnacious enough that if two or three people get close to a lap, well, they'll drive the pace to prevent it.

    occasionally a select group will take a lap in a long scratch race, but most often it's just a select group that stays half a lap ahead as the field burns itself out trying to race and people withdraw one by one...
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  8. #258
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    you have to be prepared to adjust your plan in the M-n-O more than just about any race.. I find that the mental aspect of these races is exhausting- the counting off of pulled riders, watching the back and learning the pack is to much thinking for my little brain- surprisingly i end up doing really well in most of them.. you've got to know how to ride em from the front and ride em from the back and adjust!

    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    I usually ride from near the front because I can't handle the surges that occur in the back. I treat it like a time trial and hang on till I pop. If I can, I'll provide shelter for a teammate or let him in front of me so he can live for another lap or two.
    This is something Enduros do- the tactic is to grab the pole and hammer it- hopefully burning off enough of the field to get themselves some omnium points before they pop and get pulled.. when i see one of my chaperones lining up to do this i always jump on that wheel! when you feel them slow its great to get shoulder to shoulder with them for a lap or two- making anyone who wants to overtake you come over 2 riders..

  9. #259
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    This is something Enduros do...
    Sprinters get all the glory.


  10. #260
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    This is something Enduros do- the tactic is to grab the pole and hammer it- hopefully burning off enough of the field to get themselves some omnium points before they pop and get pulled.. when i see one of my chaperones lining up to do this i always jump on that wheel! when you feel them slow its great to get shoulder to shoulder with them for a lap or two- making anyone who wants to overtake you come over 2 riders..
    This happens a lot

    I raced Masters and Rookies in the Cat1/2 Masters field at TTown one weekend. The first race was something like a 15-20 lap scratch race. On lap 4, hanging on for dear life waiting for my pull, I looked down at the computer and we were rolling at 37mph. I did my pull and was done by lap 6. THEN the muthasukkas slowed down :-/

  11. #261
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    I did my pull
    I found your mistake.

  12. #262
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    Sprinters get all the glory.

    Hahaha nice!


  13. #263
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    I found your mistake.
    Hahaha

  14. #264
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    How come none of you guys told me i have Shar Pei neck?

  15. #265
    Senior Member bliorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    How come none of you guys told me i have Shar Pei neck?
    Could be worse - you could have a Sharpay neck...
    It's better to be a spectacular failure than an apologetic one.

  16. #266
    Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter Jaytron's Avatar
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    Anyone use china carbon front wheels for racing? How do you guys feel about them? (Tubular)
    PedalRoom

    Hey I just met you,
    and this is crazy,
    but here's my Strava,
    follow me maybe.

  17. #267
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaytron View Post
    Anyone use china carbon front wheels for racing? How do you guys feel about them? (Tubular)
    Ive got a set of 88mm's laced to DA Low-Flange hubs...
    I got them a few years back before custom drilling was a standard option, so mine are 32x, and laced with heavy straight gauge spokes- this yielded a great Big-Boy wheel-set! the way mine are set up, they are not really light- but they are seriously stiff and have never needed any tensioning since they were built. I love them and use them for any mass-start races i do and as a back up to my A-Race wheels (disc/5-spoke)

  18. #268
    Senior Member Impreza_aL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harun View Post
    the trick for points races is to lap the field and get 20 points, then hang on for dear life to try to keep them.
    sand bagger. did you request your 2 yet? being lapped by you the entire season is not fun.
    fried chicken and waffles.

  19. #269
    :p Harun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
    sand bagger. did you request your 2 yet? being lapped by you the entire season is not fun.

    oh ***** it's al 'elpinoymamba'.

    no i didn't, didn't get me enough omnium points when the turnout was low and they grouped the p/1/2/3's. Only have a couple points left, hopefully everyone will be slow in april...

    also, accept my strava request already you jerk. I can take you on some of my rides and you can use me for motorpacing sessions

  20. #270
    Senior Member Kayce's Avatar
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    Has any one done the 4 session training clinic at the indoor velodrome in LA? Do you remember how the sessions were broken up, what you learned on each day?
    If You Meet The Buddha On The Road, Kill Him

  21. #271
    Senior Member Impreza_aL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harun View Post
    oh ***** it's al 'elpinoymamba'.

    no i didn't, didn't get me enough omnium points when the turnout was low and they grouped the p/1/2/3's. Only have a couple points left, hopefully everyone will be slow in april...

    also, accept my strava request already you jerk. I can take you on some of my rides and you can use me for motorpacing sessions
    you and your late season form but i'm sure it's year round...

    strava ruined cycling.

    motorpacing, you mean like at the track when i'm hanging on for dear life behind you as you're having an evening stroll?
    fried chicken and waffles.

  22. #272
    Senior Member Kayce's Avatar
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    Working on the big event schedule for next season, and for the timed states I have two different ideas for the order of the events. The races are kilo, team sprint, pursuit, and team pursuit. We run four groups for the individual(4/5, open, women, and masters), and only open for team events. Here are the two ideas:

    individual first then team. That way there is more rest time for the specilized riders.

    Or

    Much like they do in LA. Sprint in the am enduro in the pm. That way the specializes don't have to commit to the whole day.
    If You Meet The Buddha On The Road, Kill Him

  23. #273
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    One thing to think about... putting the kilo prior to the team sprint will pretty much ensure neither one of these will attract full participation. If a team sprint team is thinking about going for a win, I'd put money that they won't have every member of the team do a kilo half an hour prior. The other way works though. A team sprint would make a good opener for a kilo effort.

    I imagine this kind of thing works well for enduros as well (team event prior to individual), but I dunno. Also keep in mind that a lot of enduro guys will want to ride the kilo as well, and a lot of individual sprinters show up to a team sprint event looking to find a team to ride with.

    If I were organizing, I'd think about putting the team stuff in the morning and the individual stuff in the afternoon. Racers will move heaven and earth to race what they want to race, but ask a sprinter to ride third wheel of an Olympic sprint while he's laying on his back after puking in the gutter and he'll tell you to go stuff it.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  24. #274
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    The wife just bought me a Garmin Edge 510 and I was wondering if it is useful to use it on the track? Obviously I'll be using it for training but not sure if it's necessary on the track.

  25. #275
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbs z31 View Post
    The wife just bought me a Garmin Edge 510 and I was wondering if it is useful to use it on the track? Obviously I'll be using it for training but not sure if it's necessary on the track.
    I use the Garmin 500 on the track. It works ok. You need to disable the GPS while riding the track because the turns will throw off your speed data.. That means you will need an additional speed (and cadence) sensor.
    I opted for the Bontrager speed sensor- because it was the only ant+ speed sensor that mounts on the fork. I like fork mount, because I don't want to have to worry about realigning the magnet when I change gears... And since I have cadence built into my crank I don't need the combo sensor..

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