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-   -   Ask your small, random, track-related questions here (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/924726-ask-your-small-random-track-related-questions-here.html)

brawlo 01-05-14 05:22 PM

I use my 510 for my track and road bike. It should come with a speed/cadence sensor and HRM first up. I'm not so much a data nerd but I do look back over what I've done when I upload. As Quinn8it said, make sure you turn the gps off for the track. Also calibrate the tyre circumference correctly by rolling it out and set the record interval to 1sec.

I upload to Strava and Garmin Connect and have found that Strava tends to knock back/miss top speeds by a few km/h compared to Garmin. Garmin seems much more true to what I see on the screen in training.

Quinn8it 01-05-14 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brawlo (Post 16385307)
I upload to Strava and Garmin Connect and have found that Strava tends to knock back/miss top speeds by a few km/h compared to Garmin. Garmin seems much more true to what I see on the screen in training.

Yes- Strava will do weird things to track workouts- i think it is mostly because Strava is totally GPS based and it doesn't really know how to handle a ride with speed/cadence data and no gps that is not a trainer ride..

i was doing the Garmin Connect to Strava thing for a while as well- I've now switched over to pulling the file off the head unit with Golden Cheetah and then "Share" to Strava.. clean and fast, lets you do really in-depth analysis in GC and use the Social aspect of Strava.. also nice to be able to access most of your data from any computer, and strava makes it hard to get your files back from them- so its good to have them in GC or garmin connect..

Huffandstuff 01-05-14 08:33 PM

So I'm going to be getting into track racing hopefully this year and need a non track wheelset, I currently have a pair of H+Son Archetypes laced to All-City hubs. I've been thinking of just using those as my road wheelset and buying a pair of tubulars(probably the Miche Pistards on Velomine) or I can go the cheaper route and just pick up another pair of clinchers off CL to use as a road wheelset.

Main question is it worth the added cost to go with tubulars?

Impreza_aL 01-05-14 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huffandstuff (Post 16385716)
So I'm going to be getting into track racing hopefully this year and need a non track wheelset, I currently have a pair of H+Son Archetypes laced to All-City hubs. I've been thinking of just using those as my road wheelset and buying a pair of tubulars(probably the Miche Pistards on Velomine) or I can go the cheaper route and just pick up another pair of clinchers off CL to use as a road wheelset.

Main question is it worth the added cost to go with tubulars?

race on the same set? just pick up some buttery tires when you're racing?

Huffandstuff 01-05-14 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impreza_aL (Post 16385820)
race on the same set? just pick up some buttery tires when you're racing?

Well, im going to be getting another bike most likely since I do a lot of road riding on a fixed and it's too much of a hassle to swap tires/brakes/handlebars/gearing everyone I want to ride.

I just don't know if I should use the h+son on the new bike or get a used set for it.

Kayce 01-05-14 09:36 PM

A good number of new racers use the one bike for everything. Here is a way to do it(tire is the big sticking point, you just have to use a good general purpose tire).

One set of bars, brake, and stem for the road. Another stem and bars for the track. 48 up front; 17 for the road/ warming up. 15 on the other side for the track.

That should get you through at least the first half of a season, if not the entire.

carleton 01-06-14 01:51 PM

Guys, if you have any input, I'd appreciate it:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Indoor-Trainer

I posted in the Mechanics forum because I figured that was more appropriate than posting in the Track Forum.

Velocirapture 01-06-14 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16387627)
Guys, if you have any input, I'd appreciate it:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Indoor-Trainer

I posted in the Mechanics forum because I figured that was more appropriate than posting in the Track Forum.

An idea that comes to mind, which is not very elegant but might get the job done, is to use your existing brake lever and a looped strap. Once you've got the Nitto installed, and the brake lever disconnected from the original bar, mount it somewhere else feasible, and then use a strap (toe clip strap? velcro strap?) that can be fastened at various sizes, and look it over the lever and bar/ frame (wherever you have mounted the brake). Pull the brake to the desired resistance, and then hold in place with the strap.

The indented curve of the lever should prevent the strap from sliding off. Do away with the tension knob (and run a single line to the brake), as your lever would now do both jobs.

Could be an interim solution, if not a permanent one.

Quinn8it 01-06-14 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16387627)
Guys, if you have any input, I'd appreciate it:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Indoor-Trainer

I posted in the Mechanics forum because I figured that was more appropriate than posting in the Track Forum.

Sorry- I've got nothing for ya..

But... The Predator Ergo in your pic on the other thread is actually mine.. Lol.. It was the only one built up when they did the shots for the website..

carleton 01-06-14 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16387837)
Sorry- I've got nothing for ya..

But... The Predator Ergo in your pic on the other thread is actually mine.. Lol.. It was the only one built up when they did the shots for the website..

Ha! I noticed that you had one in the pic of your home gym. How do you like it? Can you get instant resistance for standing starts, or does it work only for sustained efforts?

Kayce 01-06-14 04:54 PM

What about an old downtube friction shifter lever and the ring style mount that used to come on cheap bikes without braze-ons? Think it would be strong enough?

carleton 01-06-14 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayce (Post 16388154)
What about an old downtube friction shifter lever and the ring style mount that used to come on cheap bikes without braze-ons? Think it would be strong enough?

I think I'm going that route or using bar-end shifters into the B123s. Not sure yet. Headed to the bike shop now to see what they have in stock for me to screw around with.

When I'm done I'll have a trainer that is BETTER than the WattBike :D

I'll have:

- System for using any handlebars (including Scattos) or any aero bars (for the kilo riders)
- Custom crank lengths with more narrow Q-factor and actually using track cranks.

This solution will work for older or modern Cycleops indoor trainers.

slindell 01-06-14 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayce (Post 16388154)
What about an old downtube friction shifter lever and the ring style mount that used to come on cheap bikes without braze-ons? Think it would be strong enough?

This is what came to mind for me. Tandem drag brakes sometimes use friction shifters for a load. The question is whether there is enough tension and fine adjustment for your uses. Barend or old mtn bike friction shifters should work. The retro shifters (some Portland company) might allow combining the brake lever and friction shifter into one.
Or for bonus style and danger points the top tube shifter from an old schwinn sting ray would have a longer handle for fine adjustment then you just need to make sure it can hold the tension.

carleton 01-06-14 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slindell (Post 16388310)
This is what came to mind for me. Tandem drag brakes sometimes use friction shifters for a load. The question is whether there is enough tension and fine adjustment for your uses. Barend or old mtn bike friction shifters should work. The retro shifters (some Portland company) might allow combining the brake lever and friction shifter into one.
Or for bonus style and danger points the top tube shifter from an old schwinn sting ray would have a longer handle for fine adjustment then you just need to make sure it can hold the tension.

Oh Snap! Retro Shifters is local to me!

But, they are $140 :(

Quinn8it 01-06-14 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16387939)
Ha! I noticed that you had one in the pic of your home gym. How do you like it? Can you get instant resistance for standing starts, or does it work only for sustained efforts?

The Predator Ergo is an Awesome Training tool!!!
(maybe not right for what you are looking for- ill get to that)

I got the first one of these- and actually had the proto-type before that. This was a collaboration between my friend Aram (predator owner) and Adam Duvendeck (my coach at the time) to re-create Adams old Ergo that he got from the USA olympic training center.. I ended up putting a deposit down, and waiting nearly a year as they tweaked the design.. which is why i got the proto and why mine ended up in the pictures...

I cant say enough good things about the quality and feel of the resistance system on this thing! unbelievably smooth and realistic. I have done extensive work dialing in my track efforts based on time/cadence/power and i re-create them precisely on the ergo. Whats interesting is, once you dial in your gearing the power curve is very realistic.. so if on the track you find you are doing 2min efforts at 110rpm and 300w, you can find that gearing, and the curve will be natural.. meaning if at the track you then do a 1min effort at 120rpm and 400w, the same gear on the ergo at the higher rpm will yield the same watts.. the curve gets a little screwy on short maximal efforts and you have to adjust the resistance..

The Ergo is a bit of a beast.. its not super refined. its a rough tool for crazy hard workouts.. it gets rusty, the wind resistance puts out so much air i had to make a fender to keep from shivering between efforts.. but other than the Frame and one custom piece in the drive train (a static piece) the entire thing is made of common bike store gear.. and any bike shop can fix it or re-build it.. this thing will last a lifetime!

as for the resistance-
the ergo uses a double step-down drivetrain.. basically you put on your track crank and ring of your choice, a small loop of chain goes to a cog of your choice that drives a Road Double drivetrain.. that drivetrain spins a road wheel at over double speed.. the wheel is equipped with fins to create air resistance..
So you can dial in resistance with the 20-gears of the road double, with the down tube shifters and you can get even more precise by changing out the Ring/Cog on the track drive train.. I have never even needed to go to the Big Ring on the road double.. this thing can support massive watts!

Ok... To actually get to your question Carleton..
Ive never trained Standing Starts on this trainer or any other for that matter...( i disagree with that on a fundamental level) but i assume they are not great on the Predator. The frame is drilled for a front brake- to allow you to lock out the wheel and do standing starts, but ive never put one on.. i assume the fact that it takes a stroke or 2 to get the wheel up to speed to create resistance is the issue.. one thing i have tried, just kicking the idea around, is getting the wheel up to decent speed, then doing the standing start.. so there is a bit of resistance at the beginning.. i think that helped.. but as i said, its not my area of expertise..

carleton 01-06-14 08:28 PM

Thanks for the review!

queerpunk 01-06-14 09:58 PM

Hopped on my rollers this evening for the first time since last winter and holy **** - there's something wrong with them. They felt so damn sluggish, I had to put my bike (my road bike) in the small ring. When I'd coast, they'd come to a stop pretty dern quick.

Now, they're 2.5" drums, cheapish, and never were as low-resistance as nice big-drum rollers. But they've never felt like this. When I spun the drums by hand, they felt smooth, no obvious resistance, but with a bike on 'em they'd just come to a stop. It was a real drag (yuk yuk yuk).

Why? Help.

sbs z31 01-06-14 11:19 PM

So I had one of those day were I couldn't finish my normal interval session, had 2 more efforts to do but I couldn't go any longer. It was getting harder to breathe, the harder I tried to breathe the more pain I feel coming from my diaphragm(I think lol). I felt disappointed but I guess it's ok. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is when you do hard effort whether it's training or racing, do people quit because of mental strenght, physical strenght or both? As a beginner cyclist getting serious with racing I know it's going to take hard work to get where I want to be.

carleton 01-06-14 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16388891)
Hopped on my rollers this evening for the first time since last winter and holy **** - there's something wrong with them. They felt so damn sluggish, I had to put my bike (my road bike) in the small ring. When I'd coast, they'd come to a stop pretty dern quick.

Now, they're 2.5" drums, cheapish, and never were as low-resistance as nice big-drum rollers. But they've never felt like this. When I spun the drums by hand, they felt smooth, no obvious resistance, but with a bike on 'em they'd just come to a stop. It was a real drag (yuk yuk yuk).

Why? Help.

It's probably that your tire pressure is too low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16389068)
So I had one of those day were I couldn't finish my normal interval session, had 2 more efforts to do but I couldn't go any longer. It was getting harder to breathe, the harder I tried to breathe the more pain I feel coming from my diaphragm(I think lol). I felt disappointed but I guess it's ok. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is when you do hard effort whether it's training or racing, do people quit because of mental strenght, physical strenght or both? As a beginner cyclist getting serious with racing I know it's going to take hard work to get where I want to be.

You are probably getting a cold or the flu. Many athletes say that they can tell when they are getting sick a day or two before it hits. They tell by feeling weaker than normal in the gym or on the bike.

Velocirapture 01-07-14 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16389068)
I guess what I'm trying to figure out is when you do hard effort whether it's training or racing, do people quit because of mental strenght, physical strenght or both? As a beginner cyclist getting serious with racing I know it's going to take hard work to get where I want to be.

Both.
A person needs to learn to suffer. Some people are better than others. But you also need to learn to read your body to know when its giving you real warning signals (actual pain), or if its suffering.

You can ALWAYS keep going. fact. Because you are not dead yet. Whether you should or not is a whole other story :)

queerpunk 01-07-14 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16389087)
It's probably that your tire pressure is too low.

It wasn't that. They were sludgy on two different bikes.

carleton 01-07-14 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16389625)
It wasn't that. They were sludgy on two different bikes.

Two different bikes with adequate tire pressure? What pressure are you using? Do you check your pressure immediately before you get on the rollers?
Do the rollers spin freely when you spin them with your hands?

Whenever I hop on my rollers and they are sluggish, the only cause is the tire pressure. I'm a heavy guy and I run at least 140PSI on my track bike's tubulars. If I'm down to even 120, the resistance goes up a lot. Those numbers will be different for lighter riders.

queerpunk 01-07-14 01:20 PM

Yeah. 110 on one, 105 on another, both just pumped. The rollers spin smoothly but not for long. Other point of information: they were in a cold, cold basement and I wonder if part of the issue was just very cold grease in the bearings slowing everything down.

It was weird, how they felt. Really.

sbs z31 01-07-14 03:51 PM

So I'm deciding between the Mercier Kilo TT and Specialized Langster for my first year of track racing. Both have similar gemoetry but the Langster have a higher bottom drop but the fork rake is 45mm though. However, if I do go with the Kilo TT then I'm going to swap out the drop bar, crankset and saddle which would add up to the price of the Lagnster alone. So which would be a better buy?

carleton 01-07-14 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16391334)
So I'm deciding between the Mercier Kilo TT and Specialized Langster for my first year of track racing. Both have similar gemoetry but the Langster have a higher bottom drop but the fork rake is 45mm though. However, if I do go with the Kilo TT then I'm going to swap out the drop bar, crankset and saddle which would add up to the price of the Lagnster alone. So which would be a better buy?

Refer to the bike threads:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Complete-Bikes
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...k-Racing-Bikes

or start a thread of your own on the topic.

Personally, I wouldn't choose either one.


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