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-   -   Ask your small, random, track-related questions here (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/924726-ask-your-small-random-track-related-questions-here.html)

queerpunk 03-13-14 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16575602)
I think Technology/Engineering is another variable that keeps sport interesting. For example, in motorsport there is SOOOO much chatter about, "What tires will he run today?.." "Did he gamble on the right compound?"

Yeah.
At the CX World Champs this year, Stybar started on all-around treads (typhoons) but a lot of other riders started on mud treads (rhinos). When Nys and Stybar got away, Nys was attacking Stybar at the pits to prevent Stybar from taking different tires and improving his technical ability.

kkxaq 03-14-14 06:44 AM

It looks like the SPEEDtime

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16575548)
http://www.casco-schutzhelme.de/imag...0027_welte.jpg

What is the name of this Casco helmet? It is not listed on their website, yet they display it in their banners.

http://www.casco-schutzhelme.de/imag...helme-nb-0.jpg

When I worked at a record store in college (god, I feel old saying "record store"), we weren't allowed to play any music that we did not have in stock to sell. This is simply because the purpose of playing music in the store was to get customers to buy it...but if we didn't have it available to sell, that just frustrated the customer and sent them elsewhere to buy it.


carleton 03-14-14 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkxaq (Post 16576734)
It looks like the SPEEDtime

Ha! You are right. I'm an idiot. I was thrown off by the different paint and I missed the vents on top.

queerpunk 03-17-14 02:35 PM

Seems like there is a ton of info out and about on the innernet for track sprinters - the TrackSprinting facebook group has a ton of knowledge, there are a few books on sprinting that are web-published... is there anything comparable for enduros?

spazegun2213 03-17-14 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16586217)
Seems like there is a ton of info out and about on the innernet for track sprinters - the TrackSprinting facebook group has a ton of knowledge, there are a few books on sprinting that are web-published... is there anything comparable for enduros?

Could you post a link to these books you speak of??

TIA

queerpunk 03-17-14 04:03 PM

Here's one. I can't remember where the other one I came across is -
Up! Up! Up! ? Up! Up! Up! An introduction to track sprint cycling

ovoleg 03-17-14 04:05 PM

I'll have lots of questions soon :) Getting the track bike built now.

Do aero deep dish wheels make a huge difference? If I have pretty stiff 32 spoke wheels should I generally be okay up to cat 3?

What power meter options do I have other than stages/vector?

queerpunk 03-17-14 04:13 PM

Deep wheels make a difference, yeah, but you will definitely be okay up to cat 3 on your traditional wheels. In fact you'll be okay up to cat 2 on them.

There are track SRMs, and there are also adaptor plates designed to go on a 110bcd quarq, which let you mount 144bcd chainrings: https://www.facebook.com/BergstromTechnologies

ovoleg 03-17-14 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16586547)
Deep wheels make a difference, yeah, but you will definitely be okay up to cat 3 on your traditional wheels. In fact you'll be okay up to cat 2 on them.

There are track SRMs, and there are also adaptor plates designed to go on a 110bcd quarq, which let you mount 144bcd chainrings: https://www.facebook.com/BergstromTechnologies

I have a 110 BCD Quarq. This is interesting and exciting!

carleton 03-17-14 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16586520)
What power meter options do I have other than stages/vector?

- SRM: Home
- Stages Track
- PowerTap: Wheelbuilder Track PowerTap System - Wheelbuilder.com
- Quark (as previously mentioned)
- Any pedal-based system (LOOK Keo Power, Garmin Vector)

carleton 03-17-14 05:26 PM

Also, if you have a fancy front wheel that you use on the road, it should be fine for the track. You will have to get an allen head skewer for like $10.

But, you won't need one for a while. Don't be the guy in the beginner races with a disc in the rear and 808 in the front :D

Maybe wait till you progress to races where the other guys equip the fancy gear, too.

ovoleg 03-17-14 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16586768)
- SRM: Home
- Stages Track
- PowerTap: Wheelbuilder Track PowerTap System - Wheelbuilder.com
- Quark (as previously mentioned)
- Any pedal-based system (LOOK Keo Power, Garmin Vector)

Any idea on accuracy loss with the Quarq attachment plate? I have the Riken which automatically calculates for new chainring bolt torque/etc so I don't think it would be an issue but just checking.

carleton 03-17-14 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovoleg (Post 16587195)
Any idea on accuracy loss with the Quarq attachment plate? I have the Riken which automatically calculates for new chainring bolt torque/etc so I don't think it would be an issue but just checking.

I don't have any experience with it. I use SRM track now and I've used PowerTap on a road bike in the past.

gtrob 03-17-14 08:28 PM

Get on the track first before worrying about power and aero ;)

ovoleg 03-17-14 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 16587355)
Get on the track first before worrying about power and aero ;)

don't really care about aero but I would like to capture the power so I can track progress. That facebook link with the adapter plate isn't cheap thats for sure, going to consider it though.

Thanks again guys, can't wait to start hitting the track and learning more :)

jmikami 03-17-14 11:24 PM

I would for sure say buy power before aero. That and a book or two to go with it. I have used a power meter as my primary coach for the last 2 years and it works great for me. Each person is different, but keeping track of my time on the bike via a power meter and combine that with my own estimates of how the day went is the best thing I ever did for my training. Lets me know when I am over doing it and when I need to push harder and when my training is working or not. Also a great way to measure pace to ensure you learn better TT methods and what speeds you can maintain vs what will cook you.

Minion1 03-18-14 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16586217)
Seems like there is a ton of info out and about on the innernet for track sprinters - the TrackSprinting facebook group has a ton of knowledge, there are a few books on sprinting that are web-published... is there anything comparable for enduros?

I've been lurking for a while and been wondering a bit about this as well, I'm guessing being an Enduro on the track these days really means Omnium ... which means you need to be an enduro that has a decent sprint. I'm doing the weights recommendations from upupupup!'s website, mixing in road and track training. I wanted to ask if starting strength or practical programming would be any use for enduros.

queerpunk 03-18-14 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minion1 (Post 16587971)
I've been lurking for a while and been wondering a bit about this as well, I'm guessing being an Enduro on the track these days really means Omnium ... which means you need to be an enduro that has a decent sprint. I'm doing the weights recommendations from upupupup!'s website, mixing in road and track training. I wanted to ask if starting strength or practical programming would be any use for enduros.

shrug, I think enduro=omnium if you're only doing international-level racing.
i think part of the dearth of information is that so many enduros are basically crit racers; track sprinting is a specialty.
but i'd still love more chatter on mental tips to count points totals when you're breathing through your your eyeballs, madison technique, and other stuff about mass start racing.
sometimes it's just nice to read other POVs, ya know?

Hermes 03-18-14 08:15 AM

Ovoleg, which track are you going to hit?

jmikami 03-18-14 09:42 AM

I would for sure count myself in the enduro camp on the track aka sprinter on the road for crits and short RRs. Since I am old now I have my training wrapped into nice little one month packages, 3 hard weeks with as many intervals as I can stomach, and 1 easy week once my base month or two is complete. That also gives me a week to mess up/get sick/have real work/life get in the way. As long as I end up with 2 hard weeks each month I am good. Seems like there are plenty of books on how to race crits, so I just leveraged them along with what I learned about running miles from Highschool to create my own plan for the track. For me it basically means lots and lots of VO2 max work once I feel my base is done (2 months). I will do 3 or 4 interval days with 4 to 6 intervals of 2 to 5 minutes and lots of rest between, all my intervals are higher than race pace - something I could not recover from and keep racing. Then 75 to 90 minute rest days between and upto a 3 hour long ride a week during the build up phase. Once the season starts in May/june I will be lucky to get 2 intervals days per week since there are so many race options where I live.

For the Madisons the training sucks I shorten my recovery between interval efforts, increase the number and shorten the duration and break into sets - 30 second to 1 minute intervals with 30 second to 1 minute rest repeat until you die, then rest for 15 minutes (road bike is best) and repeat. I have a very love/hate relationship with madisons as they are the best training and tons of fun, but also the most stressful race by far. I tend not to train for the madison, but use the madison to make me better at points races. The best training week in Portland every year is the annual 6 day race as nothing beats 6 straight days of interval work to bump you up one level.

The best thing you can do to keep track of points races is just focus on a few people and do your own race, very few can actually track points for everyone. I try to figure out who the sprinters are that will just take early points and die and ignore them. I never sprint for the first two points, just follow wheels and stay near the top 5 and hope for scap points without serious effort. Then go for at least one sprint before the middle and by then you should be able to figure out if it is a race for laps or points. Of course each race is different and I break my basic rules all the time to follow the dynamic of the race, but I typically want to be patient and fresh. This actually works better in crits and I think one of my points race flaws is that I get behind in points and can't always make it up the 2nd half of the race.

As for weights, I don't but that is just me. I prefer low RPM high power out of the saddle intervals at 2/3 minutes for my lifting ... works both your core and your strength. Combine that with some high RPM work a couple of times a week and I feel that you are good to go. My only dig against weights for cyclists is that weight lifting is so much the opposite of cycling, so good in moderation if that is your thing, but we do so many reps and at such a high rate and low weight on the bike that weight lifting is not the same activity at all. But for those who are on the skinny side, maybe trying to bulk up in the off season is good, and if you are a sprinter I would continue it further. For an enduro I would say only lift if you enjoy it - it is not going to relate as well to cycling as cycling is so your are trading one training stress for another that is likely not going to make you as fast on the bike ... maybe...

ovoleg 03-18-14 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 16588332)
Ovoleg, which track are you going to hit?

I'll be going to ADT(Carson) on Thursdays after work(4pm'ish) and probably practice/doodle/race at the Encino track on the Weekends/Race Nights.

After I get my bike(hopefully end of this week, early next week), I'm going to get the annual membership to ADT and start doing the noob certification classes. All the bike parts are on order now and the frame is chillin at the shop, once the parts arrive it's go time.

I read the intro book on this forum about track which was pretty informative and I definitely fit into that stereotype of "road cyclist who is overly confident". I did 2 scratch races and some doodling around on the Cleveland Velodrome but I have to admit I was sort of sketchy and I overpowered a lot of the new riders. I basically gapped everyone and then just hammered solo.

I got certified at the Encino track last week, pretty cool dudes there, very chill. I work 3 miles from ADT so I'm definitely going to be hitting that up very very often.

I blame Vance for getting me started...

Hermes 03-18-14 11:03 AM

Andrew, the certification instructor, is my locker parter at VSC and good friend. He is very good and you will have a blast with him.

My home track is Hellyer in San Jose but I get to VSC at least once per month and I race the LAVRA TTs. I go to the 4PM racer sessions and train with Roger Young when I am in Carson. Sometimes, I do the 4PM and 7PM sessions. I will be at VSC on April 10th and racing on the 13th.

Welcome to the other side.

ovoleg 03-18-14 11:38 AM

Thanks :) Hope to see you there!

Velocirapture 03-18-14 11:51 AM

Random question thats been niggling me;

5 spokes are 'it', and no one in their right mind rides a 4 or 3 spoke on the track, it seems.

Is this purely a wheel stiffness issue, or is there more to it?

8bits 03-18-14 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocirapture (Post 16589098)
Random question thats been niggling me;

5 spokes are 'it', and no one in their right mind rides a 4 or 3 spoke on the track, it seems.

Is this purely a wheel stiffness issue, or is there more to it?

lots of people use Corima's 3 and 4 spoked wheels and I've saw some Vision 3 spoke and FFWD new 3 and 4 spoked wheels are starting to appear too.


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