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-   -   Ask your small, random, track-related questions here (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/924726-ask-your-small-random-track-related-questions-here.html)

carleton 04-04-14 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanAVL (Post 16642679)
Well, that's surprising. Hah.
The primary reason I've kept the breaks so short is due to time constraints. I generally only have 1-2 hours to train, tops. That includes 24 minutes of travel to and from. I'd loooooove for the breaks to be longer. I'm trying to move some things around in my schedule to accommodate either longer track sessions or more short ones.

Right now, my recovery seems okay on 5 minutes of rest for everything except the 500s. Those brutalize me the most, by far. Everything else I seem to be able to maintain a split on. However, I am definitely trying to move to longer breaks. I really want to be able to attack whatever the distance is the same way I would have a squat set, or what have you.

What should I look at increasing first? The amount of times I do certain workouts or the amount of times I repeat whatever the distance is in a given workout??

When should I start doing race-style series of points laps and such??

EDIT: The coach I should be talking with runs the Mars Hill Cycling program. I'm not sure what his experience with track or sprinters is but hopefully he can provide some general input or direct me to someone with more track experience.

For the flying efforts 500M and longer, It may be easier for you to use a speedometer and watch your speed real-time and pace off of that instead of looking at splits which only give you info after the fact. Let's say during your first effort you hover around 32MPH. Maybe the next effort see if you can push it to 33MPH, etc...

Quote:

What should I look at increasing first? The amount of times I do certain workouts or the amount of times I repeat whatever the distance is in a given workout??
This is a question about Programming which can be a big hairy can of worms. But to try to answer, I'd suggest trying to increase your target speeds (using the technique mentioned above) for each effort, even if that means more recovery, which might mean cutting out the last planned effort of the day. Maybe recover based on perceived heart rate. Basically, when your heart rate returns to somewhat normal, it's time to go again.

In my opinion, sprint training rewards high quality intense efforts over volume. But, that's up for debate. Some like lots of volume which overloads the muscles which creates super-compensation later. I guess everybody is right. It's really difficult to discuss programming in this context because there are so many programs out there, many of the work, and everybody thinks theirs is the best :D

DanAVL 04-04-14 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 16642716)
You said you're riding in flats, does that mean non-cycling shoes? If so, that would be the first equipment-related upgrade I'd make. Cheap road shoes and Shimano SPD-SL pedals.

Indeed sir! I've been scoping the local bike shops for some used SPD's but to no avail. I think I'm just going to have to bite it and get some new ones. We have a several bike shops here so I'll just start calling around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16642749)
For the flying efforts 500M and longer, It may be easier for you to use a speedometer and watch your speed real-time and pace off of that instead of looking at splits which only give you info after the fact. Let's say during your first effort you hover around 32MPH. Maybe the next effort see if you can push it to 33MPH, etc...

This is a question about Programming which can be a big hairy can of worms. But to try to answer, I'd suggest trying to increase your target speeds (using the technique mentioned above) for each effort, even if that means more recovery, which might mean cutting out the last planned effort of the day. Maybe recover based on perceived heart rate. Basically, when your heart rate returns to somewhat normal, it's time to go again.

In my opinion, sprint training rewards high quality intense efforts over volume. But, that's up for debate. Some like lots of volume which overloads the muscles which creates super-compensation later. I guess everybody is right. It's really difficult to discuss programming in this context because there are so many programs out there, many of the work, and everybody thinks theirs is the best :D

I forget the name of it off the top of my head but I planned on buying the bike computer you recommended in another thread. Have it all bookmarked away and everything. I believe it's 64.00$?? That one has a speedometer function correct?? Will try to get this asap. It'll be really neat to actually see MPH. I'm sure I'll feel like Im flying and the readout will show a steady 25mph. Hah!

The last part is true is in every sport I've interacted with. It's always funny when someone claims that here is "one right way" to do any type of training. Sure there are common traits across all successful programs but if there were one way, everyone would be doing it. There's always huge training variation amongst most podiums. It seems to be about finding what works for you.

Baby Puke 04-04-14 06:26 PM

Shimano PD-R540 SPD-SL Road Pedals | Competitive Cyclist

For $50, I'd start with some fresh ones. I know you're a strong guy, so crank the tension to the max and when you get things dialed you'll want to attach some straps. Shoes can be had for under $100 if you look around, then you're set.

MarkWW 04-04-14 09:38 PM

Has anyone heard of one of the iterations of the felt tk1 fork being non UCI legal? I've been contemplating a 2011 frameset, but one of my team-mates mentioned that they changed forks mid 2011 because of UCI regulations. This was news to me.

bigfred 04-06-14 12:46 AM

Was there someone in this community that was bummed about breaking a Tiemeyer seattube top clamp and Dave having closed up shop?

If so, I was just at a local frame builder's today collecting a frame he was repairing for me and noticed a few of Dave's seattube fittings. Apparently he purchased a lot of Dave's remaining tubes and fittings.

Shipping between the States and here might be a minor pain and I'm not sure of the finanacial justification of that plus re-heat treating and painting. But, if it's a sentimental or favorite frame, at least it's an option. I know you can fit a frame within the USPS maximums for as little at $70, if you don't mind going without insurance and tracking.

Huffandstuff 04-07-14 08:32 PM

So I tried to go to Alpenrose today and nothing was scheduled on the OBRA calender but there was a full team of people there running drills on the track and I didn't ask but overheard the coach saying if you are going to ride the track today you are going to be running our drills. Since this is my first season, is this something that's normal or are there other places besides OBRA to look for scheduled events?

carleton 04-07-14 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huffandstuff (Post 16651128)
So I tried to go to Alpenrose today and nothing was scheduled on the OBRA calender but there was a full team of people there running drills on the track and I didn't ask but overheard the coach saying if you are going to ride the track today you are going to be running our drills. Since this is my first season, is this something that's normal or are there other places besides OBRA to look for scheduled events?

I'm not that familiar with Alpenrose rules, but if they reserved the track, it is theirs. If they didn't you can politely remind them to reserve the track and that you can do what you like (within reason, of course).

Here is the calendar of reservations: OBRA: Alpenrose Velodrome

Huffandstuff 04-07-14 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16651282)
I'm not that familiar with Alpenrose rules, but if they reserved the track, it is theirs. If they didn't you can politely remind them to reserve the track and that you can do what you like (within reason, of course).

Here is the calendar of reservations: OBRA: Alpenrose Velodrome

oh yeah, they are on there. I just clicked track and events and didn't see anything scheduled till the 28th. I thought I might b missing something.

jmikami 04-07-14 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huffandstuff (Post 16651128)
So I tried to go to Alpenrose today and nothing was scheduled on the OBRA calender but there was a full team of people there running drills on the track and I didn't ask but overheard the coach saying if you are going to ride the track today you are going to be running our drills. Since this is my first season, is this something that's normal or are there other places besides OBRA to look for scheduled events?

The general rules are that Most Weekday evenings have reserved events from 6 to dark. BBC on Monday, TT stuff on Tues, Intro Class on Wed, Regular Race night Thursday and Sprint Night Friday - Those events are pretty much those people only/paid classes/races. The coaches take over various times on weekends and during the day for their people and for the most part as I understand they do not get exclusive use of the track and as long as you are not screwing around you should be able to work in your workouts during that time, but should talk to who ever is in charge at the time. I have not had any conflicts myself, but I have been around the block a few times at the track and can fit my workouts in around others well.

As I will be spending a decent amount of time their soon I will double check the rules on the coaches as they are starting to take up a fair amount of time on the track, but they should be inclusive more than exclusive - but don't expect free coaching. It is also possible that the online schedule is not updated for 2014, I will check on that as well.

jmikami 04-07-14 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huffandstuff (Post 16651308)
oh yeah, they are on there. I just clicked track and events and didn't see anything scheduled till the 28th. I thought I might b missing something.

It has been a wet year ... groups are dying to get out on the track, so I expect it to be very busy this week as everyone tries to get time in. Most official events start in May, but coaches are there when they can. I am planning to be there Thursday or Friday this week.

Huffandstuff 04-07-14 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmikami (Post 16651353)
It has been a wet year ... groups are dying to get out on the track, so I expect it to be very busy this week as everyone tries to get time in. Most official events start in May, but coaches are there when they can. I am planning to be there Thursday or Friday this week.

Yeah I knew it was gonna be a cluster just didn't realize how bad. Was about twenty to twenty five people and it seemed most of them never had been on a track before.

Brian Ratliff 04-07-14 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huffandstuff (Post 16651128)
So I tried to go to Alpenrose today and nothing was scheduled on the OBRA calender but there was a full team of people there running drills on the track and I didn't ask but overheard the coach saying if you are going to ride the track today you are going to be running our drills. Since this is my first season, is this something that's normal or are there other places besides OBRA to look for scheduled events?

There is a schedule; some coaches are better at working with outside riders than others. But it is an open track. You can ride any time absent a scheduled race. However, if the track is reserved, then you need to work in or work with the other group and that group's needs takes precedence. 3:00pm til dusk in Sundays is always open track time, and up until the season starts (May), there should be open track time when the weekly races would otherwise happen (Tuesday thru Fri, ~5:00 to dusk).

I would avoid trying to get track time when the Word/RCB group is out. They have a large cadre of beginners that can make it very hard to work with. Likewise, the Beaverton Bike Club can also be hard to work with for the same reasons. Kirk Whiteman and Brian Abers are pretty chill about working outside riders in. Just be respectful and look like you know what you are doing. First thing to do when looking to work in with a group is talk to them before putting your wheels on the track. It's a safety thing more than anything. The key to safety on the track is making sure everyone knows what everyone else is doing.

rvigeant 04-08-14 10:05 PM

When I set up a training time for our team at Alpenrose, this is the email that I received explaining "the rules".... ( Italics are mine...)

1) All participants need to sign a waiver. That can be yearly, roster style, etc. There just has to be one.
2) It is expected that an accounting of participant numbers for all sessions will be turned in and money rebated or more paid based on a, as I recall, $0.50/rider/session. This money goes toward shared expenses; liability insurance, Porta Potties, etc.
3) Anyone can ride all sessions but the entity scheduling the session determines the program.
4) This same entity may charge a fee which it is expected will be substantially similar for all participants, i.e. you can’t economically exclude people by not charging some and charging other $1,000/session
5) Everyone will play nice.


And Brian is correct....a 30 second conversation will prevent a lot of frustrations.

dro.pru 04-08-14 10:47 PM

I'm building a beater fixed gear for road use so i can save the track bike from non-race use. I'm going to take the stock seatpost from the Windsor for the build and want to upgrade the seatpost on it. Any recommendations? I was leaning towards a Miche Supertype, and I read good things about the Thompson but I don't know if I could use the zero setback post, or if the setback one would be enough. (I would like tospend less than $80 and have seen some Thomson's used on ebay for about $50)

please and thank you.

noglider 04-09-14 08:04 PM

My chain whip sucks. I gotta get a grown up chain whip. I could have gone to the LBS to have them change the cog, but I was determined. Eventually, I got it off with a big channel lock. Wow, I didn't expect that to work. What's the old trick of using the cranks? I couldn't remember.

The clinic at Kissena is this Sunday. This will be my first time with the track bike on a track. It was time to increase my ratio. I've been riding the streets on a 46x19 (65"). I changed to a 16T which gives me 77". Does that sound OK? I'll be honest, I'm scared to out in that gear, even though I have a front brake.

queerpunk 04-09-14 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16657420)
My chain whip sucks. I gotta get a grown up chain whip. I could have gone to the LBS to have them change the cog, but I was determined. Eventually, I got it off with a big channel lock. Wow, I didn't expect that to work. What's the old trick of using the cranks? I couldn't remember.

The clinic at Kissena is this Sunday. This will be my first time with the track bike on a track. It was time to increase my ratio. I've been riding the streets on a 46x19 (65"). I changed to a 16T which gives me 77". Does that sound OK? I'll be honest, I'm scared to out in that gear, even though I have a front brake.

the old trick uses the wheel, not the cranks.
take the chain off the chainring, wrap it around the bottom bracket shell.
at the cog, double the chain back around itself so that the whole thing is taught.
grab the rim and turn it like a ship's wheel.
if you're confused, google Rotafix.

Quinn8it 04-09-14 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16657444)
if you're confused, google Rotafix.

not my prefered method of removing a cog... but when you get one that is welded on- there is not really a more effective way to get it off..

gtrob 04-09-14 10:00 PM

Remove lock ring, install wheel, get some speed, hit the brakes hard, hope you don't die.


Or get the miche holders that never have to come off :)

dro.pru 04-09-14 10:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I made a chain whip with some chain and some steel stock. I had a cheap chainwhip/lockring tool i bought off ebay but the chain from the chainwhip got in the way when i went to take the lockring off. i made the handle longer than the old one for those stubborn cogs!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=373832

queerpunk 04-10-14 06:24 AM

A buddy made one of those for me, once. He used steel that was too soft and eventually it got all bit up, and the chain snapped out of it.

noglider 04-10-14 08:42 AM

It will be worthwhile for me to buy a serious chain whip. Enough with buying cheap tools. They don't save money at all.

carleton 04-10-14 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16658523)
It will be worthwhile for me to buy a serious chain whip. Enough with buying cheap tools. They don't save money at all.

I've had the same Park chainwhip for several years. It came with a 3/32" chain. I removed those chain pieces and used master links to affix pieces of 1/8" chain.

8bits 04-10-14 09:23 AM

1 Attachment(s)
So, I've got a pair of hubs but they have those annoying allen bolts, the inside wall of the bolts are kinda flat it feels like they wouldn't grip/torque properly at the dropout. Is there any type of bolt that I can replace it that would be better?http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=373882

carleton 04-10-14 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bits (Post 16658674)
So, I've got a pair of hubs but they have those annoying allen bolts, the inside wall of the bolts are kinda flat it feels like they wouldn't grip/torque properly at the dropout. Is there any type of bolt that I can replace it that would be better?http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=373882

Are they already laced into wheels or are they unbuilt hubs?

Those kinds of rear hubs can be a pain in the butt when you are training/racing if they slip on you. They will slip under bigger/stroger riders. The safest way is to use some sort of chain tensioner always. But, using a chain tensioner adds time to every gear change.

You could try a track axle cap like this: Zipp - Speed Weaponry | Accessories | Components | Track Axle Cap Kits

But it looks like you already have one on there.

If you haven't built them, I'd consider using a standard hub on the rear that uses standard nuts. Not as pretty, but it will save you lots of hassle.

Quinn8it 04-10-14 09:47 AM

What Carleton said..

Tugs are a PITA!
If your frame has built in tensioners then you are good..

Otherwise- get a full size Allen wrench for the bolt- the longest you can find. So you can confirm you are cranking it down.

I had had an old Zipp Disc that had Allen bolts and once I started using a long wrench instead of a 3-way multi I figured out how to get it tight enough


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