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-   -   Ask your small, random, track-related questions here (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/924726-ask-your-small-random-track-related-questions-here.html)

Pole Line Stand 04-17-14 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMR (Post 16678131)
They are great... Guys I train with use them, I will get one for next season. The only downside is that you need to go within 70cm or so of the sensor... so when timing a flying 200 on our 333m track, we put one sensor about 3/4 up the bank on the start line (200m to go), then one at 100m to go, and one at the finish line.

Just have to make sure that other riders (especially the moto) know the sensor is there and to avoid it.

We have a pretty good group at our sprint sessions so it isn't really an issue.

JMR

Thanks much for the information.

I saw that Free Lap has a "Velodrome" kit that you can tape down a wire which attaches to the sensor. Also, I was thinking of using two of the TX Junior sensors. It may be easier to set them up on a 333m facility with the TX Junior on the wall stationed at the 200m line and the second TX Junior sensor at the finish line. The price is pretty reasonable as well. Thanks again.

Pole Line Stand 04-17-14 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 16678194)
We have a shared system at our track so you just need to get a transponder. Mylaps I think its called.

Ive used something similar to freelaps in my race car, its basically a beam that you set on a wall and a receiver/screen in the car. Now that I think of it would be kind of trick on a bike, as if gives you a lot of easy to read data (fastest lap, if you are slowing or speeding up, etc). A little bulky for a bike Im sure though.

Yes, I was looking at the MYlaps as well. The advantage of the Mylaps I believe is that you can use a chip while the Free Laps you need to adhere a stop watch to the handlebar. You would have to swap the stop watch amongst numerous riders, but with the MYlaps it would necessitate the riders obtaining chips for themselves.

Thanks for the information.

gtrob 04-17-14 07:59 AM

One other thing Ill say about the freelaps, this may not apply to everyone, but I cannot tell you how many times I have forgotten my beam at the track. Like, turned around 30mins later to go get it, several times lol. Because its not with the rest of your stuff, its easy to just go home without it :)

Dalai 04-18-14 10:01 PM

Looking for a replacement for my now unfortunately retired 08 Fuji Track Pro. Was a 56cm tt so ideally looking for same but have found a used 55cm Dolan DF3. If I can't find a 56cm TT, would I be better going up to 57cm or okay down to 55cm? I realize this is a difficult question to answer online but was hoping for some feedback before I follow up this one further...

On the Fuji I was running 5cm setback and 110mm stem.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8484/8...41fb2c40_c.jpg

Quinn8it 04-18-14 10:33 PM

a 110 stem- with what look like deep classic track bars

Id go with the 57cm Dolan. The seat tube length is the same on the 55 and 57 so all you are doing is gaining a little length, that you could easily trim down with short reach bars..

slindell 04-18-14 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalai (Post 16684157)
Looking for a replacement for my now unfortunately retired 08 Fuji Track Pro. Was a 56cm tt so ideally looking for same but have found a used 55cm Dolan DF3. If I can't find a 56cm TT, would I be better going up to 57cm or okay down to 55cm? I realize this is a difficult question to answer online but was hoping for some feedback before I follow up this one further...

On the Fuji I was running 5cm setback and 110mm stem.

Dolan and Teschner seem to have steeper seat angles so fit a bit bigger than the top tube size so I suspect the 55 may be the same net size as most 56cm bikes. A degree of seat angle is about the same as 1cm of top tube if you keep the saddle setback the same.

Dalai 04-18-14 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16684188)
a 110 stem- with what look like deep classic track bars

Correct. Deda Pista bars...

Dalai 04-18-14 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slindell (Post 16684196)
Doan and Teschner seem to have steeper seat angles so fit a bit bigger than the top tube size so I suspect the 55 may be the same net size as most 56cm bikes. A degree of seat angle is about the same as 1cm of top tube if you keep the saddle setback the same.

74.75 seat angle on the Dolan vs 74 on the Fuji track Pro so sounds promising.

carleton 04-18-14 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16684188)
a 110 stem- with what look like deep classic track bars

Id go with the 57cm Dolan. The seat tube length is the same on the 55 and 57 so all you are doing is gaining a little length, that you could easily trim down with short reach bars..

+1

I say go with the 57.

Dalai 04-18-14 11:18 PM

Only have a used 55cm for sale locally. Still may get in touch with the seller and if still available when I can drive again will check it out in person anyway. Given sindells comments it still may work...

slindell 04-19-14 12:34 PM

The other thing to look for on Dolans is the head tube length. The head tubes run short to support an aggressive pursuit position so the tend to end up with up turned stems and spacers or shallow drop bars. If going with shallow bars they tend to be shorter so next size up might be a better fit if you don't want a long stem - I think the head tube is pretty much the same up to 59.

carleton 04-19-14 04:05 PM

http://i.imgur.com/C1tgudz.jpg

Jaytron 04-28-14 03:29 PM

What races, as a sprinter, do I need to be cat3+ for?

Thinking States/Nats type of sprint events.

carleton 04-28-14 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 16710019)
What races, as a sprinter, do I need to be cat3+ for?

Thinking States/Nats type of sprint events.

If I remember correctly:

For anything under Elite Nationals:
- You can be CAT5 for any time trial (flying 200, 500M, Kilo, 2K, 3K, 4K, team sprint, team pursuit).
- You must be CAT3 for mass start (keirin, scratch, points, madison, miss and out, omnium)
- I can't recall if you need a CAT3 for Match Sprints or not.
- Some events, like AVC events may have their own restrictions, like the Elite being Pro/1/2 only and Masters/Women can be CAT3. It's really up to the promoter.

If I remember correctly: Men must be CAT2 to participate in any mass start event at Elite Nationals. Women must be CAT3 for any mass start event at Elite Nationals (I think).

Quinn8it 04-28-14 04:25 PM

I think Carleton is correct- except that you can do TT's at Elite Nats as a 5

gtrob 04-28-14 05:11 PM

Do they normally allow outside competitors for things like state champs? IE people other states, countries. I assume you won't get a medal but can still compete?

brawlo 04-28-14 07:01 PM

I have seen this happen and I don't agree with it. In racing, and especially sprint competition, the visiting rider can vastly affect the outcome for anyone that they come up against. For example, say you could have made the semis at least against regular competition, but came up against the visitor in the quarters and were eliminated. You would quite rightly be angry. For that level of competition, if you are not eligible, you should just plain stay out.

My club has allowed non eligible riders to race in road and track scratch championship races. In those circumstances, they have been under strict instruction to stay at the back and not influence the race in any way. No turns, nothing. Why would a rider even turn up for that???? On the track, we work it so we have a championship event followed by regular racing each night, so I can see the visitor using the ride(race) as a warmup.

carleton 04-28-14 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 16710240)
Do they normally allow outside competitors for things like state champs? IE people other states, countries. I assume you won't get a medal but can still compete?

Generally speaking, yes. I've raced state and regional championships in areas other than my own as an outsider. I've done this for fun and to try to get a higher level of intensity than one would get at normal weekly racing. I'm a firm believer that one should race as many big (or bigger than normal) events as possible, even if you don't expect to do well.

You are right, even if I won an event, I wasn't eligible for medals or jerseys. The awards would cascade down to he next eligible competitor in the final standings.

Of course, it's smart to inquire ahead of time to make sure that the race promoter is OK with it.

carleton 04-28-14 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brawlo (Post 16710556)
I have seen this happen and I don't agree with it. In racing, and especially sprint competition, the visiting rider can vastly affect the outcome for anyone that they come up against. For example, say you could have made the semis at least against regular competition, but came up against the visitor in the quarters and were eliminated. You would quite rightly be angry. For that level of competition, if you are not eligible, you should just plain stay out.

My club has allowed non eligible riders to race in road and track scratch championship races. In those circumstances, they have been under strict instruction to stay at the back and not influence the race in any way. No turns, nothing. Why would a rider even turn up for that???? On the track, we work it so we have a championship event followed by regular racing each night, so I can see the visitor using the ride(race) as a warmup.

I can see how that would be frustrating and I'd be pissed too if I got bumped into the lower bracket by someone who had no chance of winning.

Dalai 04-28-14 08:20 PM

Club champs not, but I have raced against others from interstate in State titles and the interstate riders can take home the medal.

gtrob 04-28-14 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brawlo (Post 16710556)
I have seen this happen and I don't agree with it. In racing, and especially sprint competition, the visiting rider can vastly affect the outcome for anyone that they come up against. For example, say you could have made the semis at least against regular competition, but came up against the visitor in the quarters and were eliminated. You would quite rightly be angry. For that level of competition, if you are not eligible, you should just plain stay out.

My club has allowed non eligible riders to race in road and track scratch championship races. In those circumstances, they have been under strict instruction to stay at the back and not influence the race in any way. No turns, nothing. Why would a rider even turn up for that???? On the track, we work it so we have a championship event followed by regular racing each night, so I can see the visitor using the ride(race) as a warmup.


Unfortunately it works both ways though. In Canada, track cycling is non-existent, to the point that if outside riders didn't come to our national races, we wouldn't be able to put them on (like 5 guys showed up to last year's). I can see this happening in states that don't have a huge sport.

National champs are also UCI races, so medal or not an outside rider can grab UCI points.

I think that event hosts should be able to hold the right to not allow outside riders though (assuming they are not on the UCI calendar). I agree though if Im going to be told to 'hang back' I better not be paying an entry fee! I've been asked to be 'pack fodder' before but for other reasons.

Jaytron 04-29-14 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16710108)
If I remember correctly:

For anything under Elite Nationals:
- You can be CAT5 for any time trial (flying 200, 500M, Kilo, 2K, 3K, 4K, team sprint, team pursuit).
- You must be CAT3 for mass start (keirin, scratch, points, madison, miss and out, omnium)
- I can't recall if you need a CAT3 for Match Sprints or not.
- Some events, like AVC events may have their own restrictions, like the Elite being Pro/1/2 only and Masters/Women can be CAT3. It's really up to the promoter.

If I remember correctly: Men must be CAT2 to participate in any event at Elite Nationals. Women must be CAT3 for any event at Elite Nationals (I think).

WHAT?! Cat 2 for anything nationals? Guess I'm not going to nationals any time soon... or ever.

Baby Puke 04-29-14 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 16712372)
WHAT?! Cat 2 for anything nationals? Guess I'm not going to nationals any time soon... or ever.

Kilo, my man, kilo...

carleton 04-29-14 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 16712372)
WHAT?! Cat 2 for anything nationals? Guess I'm not going to nationals any time soon... or ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 16712418)
Kilo, my man, kilo...

I think I'm mistaken with that.

I rephrased it to say that I think you have to be CAT2 for any MASS START event at Nationals. Sorry for the confusion!

Hermes 04-29-14 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 16712372)
WHAT?! Cat 2 for anything nationals? Guess I'm not going to nationals any time soon... or ever.

It is Cat 2 or better for mass start elite nationals and any category for anything else. Although, I am not sure about match sprints but team sprint, team pursuit, individual pursuit and kilo are open to all. And they do not require qualifying. In previous years, each district was allowed two racers from each event and we held qualifiers at Hellyer. Today, you just register and show up. If there is a caveat emptor, it is that elite track nationals is a UCI event and strict enforcement of UCI equipment rules are in effect.

Also, if you are not a Cat 2 or better racer the mass start races are too fast and technically difficult plus the fields are big.


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