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Old 07-23-14, 09:32 PM   #1151
sbs z31
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Do not grease bolts that you are applying a fixed torque to. The grease is a lubricant and the torque created by the bolt friction in the thread will be less for a given clamping force on the seat post. You run the risk of breaking your seat post (I assume it's carbon due to your use of paste) by applying too much clamping force. I learnt this the hard way on my old moto. I had alloy bolts that were only 5Nm and I actually elongated the bolts by using so much force although the torque wrench never reached 5Nm. Turns out a some grease got onto the threads. A similar circumstance on your bike will likely crush the seatpost!
So what should I do?
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Old 07-24-14, 12:18 AM   #1152
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So what should I do?
Can't help there sorry. My track bike is a seat mast and my roadie is a Felt with the double clamp style seat post clamp. No slippage for me. Others will have answers for you I'm sure, as I've seen it discussed on a few occasions. Have you done a search through other posts/threads?
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Old 07-24-14, 02:29 AM   #1153
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This goes for more than lifting. The act of riding, lifting, working out, making your body hurt, is not what actually makes you stronger (if anything it makes you weaker). Its the trigger I suppose, but not the action. Its the recovery and over compensation that your body is trying to build stronger for next time. Rest, and really sleep, is where you get stronger.

Only thing you need on race day is to warm up. If you can lift and race on the same day, you are not doing them right
Definitely agree with all that has been said on this so far.

I'd even recommend that you avoid lifting or hard training in the two days running up to a race, unless the race is not your main focus/ just another 'hard' training day. I tried to race on a sunday after lifting on the friday - bad idea. I'm sure a lot of folks on this forum can do it, but definitely if you are new to lifting, its going to seriously compromise your legs for the racing
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Old 07-24-14, 10:08 AM   #1154
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Do not grease bolts that you are applying a fixed torque to. The grease is a lubricant and the torque created by the bolt friction in the thread will be less for a given clamping force on the seat post. You run the risk of breaking your seat post (I assume it's carbon due to your use of paste) by applying too much clamping force. I learnt this the hard way on my old moto. I had alloy bolts that were only 5Nm and I actually elongated the bolts by using so much force although the torque wrench never reached 5Nm. Turns out a some grease got onto the threads. A similar circumstance on your bike will likely crush the seatpost!
As a former BMW master tech, I would only apply this advice to special situations like the one you just discovered, alloy bolts. Alloy bolts (at least in motorcycle applications) are generally one-use only and have no lubricant or a specific thread treatment indicated. For your run-of-the-mill steel bolts, lube them. If you get really detailed about it, there are different torque specs available for various bolt material/lube combinations out there, but for our bicycle stuff I don't believe we need to be that picky.
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Old 07-24-14, 12:26 PM   #1155
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So what should I do?
If the seatpost is a loose fit sometimes shimming it with a pop can may help or try a different seatpost. Ones like Thomson with more texture can hold better than smooth posts and some posts are just smaller or larger even though marked as the same size.
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Old 07-24-14, 05:44 PM   #1156
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Did my first track class tonight and it was awesome but I noticed my seatpost kept slipping. I did put in a little of carbon paste assembly inside the seat tube but it still slipped. Should I apply more or what should I do?
Have a good local bike shop check your seat post and clamp.
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Old 07-28-14, 05:39 PM   #1157
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Just a queery about rules. In the Commonwealth Games points race there was a bit of controversy between the Isle of Man (who won the silver medal with Peter Kennaugh) and New Zealand team who won the gold medal with Tom Scully.

The Isle of Man team eventually had a couple of riders disqualified (i think this was for dropping off the back of the group when Kennaugh attacked then working with him to take a lap - both riders got a warning for this but continued to do it). However rather than alot of this the post-race controversy was about a New Zealand rider blocking an Isle of Man with his arm . The commentators thought it bad thing to do and worthy of disqualification and a couple of days on Kennaugh and his team mates were still moaning about it.

Personally it looked like more of a protest towards the commissaire than a dangerous block but that isnt what my question is about its about riding on the cote d'azur. I was under the impression that undertaking riders on it is not allowed ...yet the commentators didnt pick up on this at all instead focusing on the raised arm. One of the commentators was Rob Hayles so considering his track palmares i assume he knows the rules - yet he didnt mention anything about the undertaking on the cote d'azur at all and it was all about the block. So is it acceptable or not?
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Old 07-28-14, 09:11 PM   #1158
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1) It is illegal to advance one's position while on the cote d'azure, period. You can ride on it (maybe by getting forced down by riders above you), but you cannot advance your position while down there. You are to return to the track when it is safe to do so.

2) "Willful obstruction of a rider" is an offense.

I guess it's up to the judges to say whether the NZ guy was *willfully* obstructing the IM guy who was illegally passing on the cote d'azure.



Think of it this way, the IM guy could willfully try to illegally pass on the cote d'azure and the NZ guy could see this happening and willfully try to stop him. The NZ guy would immediately be wrong. The IM guy would only be wrong if he completed the pass...I think. They could both be penalized with anything from an official warning, loss of position, loss of points from the sprint, disqualification from the event, expulsion from the event, monetary penalties, and on and on...

NZ is off the hook for anything if he (or video) can prove that he didn't willfully obstruct the IM guy because he did not expect a rider to pass him on the cote d'azure which is a very reasonable point. But if video shows that he saw the guy coming, then...
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Old 07-28-14, 09:23 PM   #1159
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Regarding riders dropping back from the pack to pull a teammate up: That's clearly collusion. That's a common tactic even in local racing.

Here's how it should be dealt with (from my point of view):

It is up to the faster rider to *not* accept any benefit from the riders that dropped back. He should not enter their slipstream (even for a moment). If he does, he should be penalized. The penalty should be either losing the +20 points for the lap that was gained and/or any points won during the break away.

All teammates are subject to warnings or disqualification for collusion.

In general, a rider taking a lap should not take shelter from any rider not breaking away with him/her until they regain connection with the pack* and are awarded +20 points.

*The pack as defined by the commissar.


Collusion is common...and illegal.
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Old 07-29-14, 04:52 PM   #1160
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Thanks for the clarification.

On a related point (related to the Commonwealth games at least) is this a new bike ?

Im sure i read somewhere (although i might just have imagined it!) that New Zealand were developing their own kit similar to British Cycling, wonder if this is related to that. Looks different to the Avanti model they were riding in the recent past.

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Old 07-29-14, 05:06 PM   #1161
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Thanks for the clarification.

On a related point (related to the Commonwealth games at least) is this a new bike ?

Im sure i read somewhere (although i might just have imagined it!) that New Zealand were developing their own kit similar to British Cycling, wonder if this is related to that. Looks different to the Avanti model they were riding in the recent past.
It's a BT Edge: BT EDGE | Bike Technologies

NZ has been using BTs for a long time. I'd like to see what they come up with. But, being that we are 2 years away from the Olympics, we probably won't see any new cool stuff till then.
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Old 07-29-14, 09:28 PM   #1162
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Went to track class tonight and just wanted to report back on the seatpost slipping issue on my Langster Pro. I ended up using more carbon assembly paste and there's no more slipping.
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Old 08-05-14, 05:59 AM   #1163
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On the match sprint: have you seen someone approach it as a 750m timed race? (Full gas all the way from a fast standing start)
Are there any rules against that?
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Old 08-05-14, 06:24 AM   #1164
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No rules against it but doubt you would get away with it after the first time - great example where it has been done at the highest level successfully.

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Old 08-05-14, 07:17 AM   #1165
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i love that video clip.

yeah, going long on somebody is usually called "kilo-ing" them (even though it's 750m, not 1000). there's definitely no rule against it - the only pacing rules are that the person who draws starting position #1 must lead the first half a lap at at least a walking pace; and that you can only trackstand 2x, for a max of 30sec each.

note forstemann's strategy - he's held for a few extra seconds so he has more room to accelerate behind Hoy. he passes Hoy with a pretty great speed differential (Forstemann being one of the best starters in the world helps)

and MAN, note Hoy's final, late acceleration. what a beast.
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Old 08-05-14, 11:36 AM   #1166
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No rules against it but doubt you would get away with it after the first time - great example where it has been done at the highest level successfully.
Amazing video! Thanks!

Foerstemann received a good push from the holder.
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Old 08-05-14, 11:38 AM   #1167
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what a beast.
THAT!

Even in slow motion he looks fast
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Old 08-05-14, 05:18 PM   #1168
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On the match sprint: have you seen someone approach it as a 750m timed race? (Full gas all the way from a fast standing start)
Are there any rules against that?
It's a legal strategy, but it costs a lot in terms of being able to go deeper in the tournament.
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Old 08-06-14, 01:00 PM   #1169
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While I understand injuries are very varied and personal, what have been some timelines for recovery from pulled gluteal muscles for you guys? I've tried to do too much while recovering from a slight pull, and I have in turn worsened it. Any tips would also be appreciated.
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Old 08-06-14, 05:01 PM   #1170
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While I understand injuries are very varied and personal, what have been some timelines for recovery from pulled gluteal muscles for you guys? I've tried to do too much while recovering from a slight pull, and I have in turn worsened it. Any tips would also be appreciated.
I'd ask in a forum where you can get more eyes on your question. Try Road Racing: "The 33"-Road Bike Racing Either start a thread or post in the Training Status forum: Training Status??? (III)
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Old 08-11-14, 08:50 AM   #1171
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I remember seeing a picture from a euro six-day, of a mechanic's stand. 14, 15, and 16-tooth cogs each had a tooth painted a certain color, so at a glance it was easy to tell which the 14, 15, and 16 were.

But, i can't find the picture (it was probably on VeloVeritas, but there's a lot to sort through!).

Does anybody know which colors correspond to which size cogs, in the euro mechanic tradition?
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Old 08-11-14, 10:08 AM   #1172
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i love that video clip.

yeah, going long on somebody is usually called "kilo-ing" them (even though it's 750m, not 1000). there's definitely no rule against it - the only pacing rules are that the person who draws starting position #1 must lead the first half a lap at at least a walking pace; and that you can only trackstand 2x, for a max of 30sec each.

note forstemann's strategy - he's held for a few extra seconds so he has more room to accelerate behind Hoy. he passes Hoy with a pretty great speed differential (Forstemann being one of the best starters in the world helps)

and MAN, note Hoy's final, late acceleration. what a beast.
I heard there was some gamesmanship going on there as well; Foerstemann called for a mechanical at the line (after he drew second position) and geared down to get a super fast start.

You get one of those in your lifetime. Use it wisely. After you do this once, everyone you'll race from then on start looking for it and you'll not get another opportunity again to catch someone with their pants down. Ballsey though, Foerstemann doing this against the former kilo world champion.

Also, the term "kilo-ing" was from when many high level competitions were held on a 333 track.
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Old 08-11-14, 11:09 AM   #1173
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I remember seeing a picture from a euro six-day, of a mechanic's stand. 14, 15, and 16-tooth cogs each had a tooth painted a certain color, so at a glance it was easy to tell which the 14, 15, and 16 were.

But, i can't find the picture (it was probably on VeloVeritas, but there's a lot to sort through!).

Does anybody know which colors correspond to which size cogs, in the euro mechanic tradition?
I've seen this done but I haven't heard of a tradition. The numbers stamped on the cogs is difficult to read. In the past, I've taken different paint pens and painted the inner part of my cogs similar to this:



Just pick a color for each tooth-count and stick with it.
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Old 08-11-14, 09:13 PM   #1174
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In the past, I've taken different paint pens and painted the inner part of my cogs similar to this:
Just pick a color for each tooth-count and stick with it.

I personally like this Euro Asia color code a lot. I will follow this if I ever paint my cogs.

When you purchase the gold medal pro cogs they even come in color coded bags!

This way when I have the complete set of gold medal pro I will already be used to the color code.... yeah right hahaha

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Old 08-12-14, 12:07 AM   #1175
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Also, when you use Shimano cogs (especially the smaller ones) the lockring covers up the number. So, it's difficult (but not impossible) to eyeball what cog may be installed on the wheel. With the paint pen, you can see the color outside of the lockring.

Trust me, when you change gears a lot you can make bonehead mistakes...like the time I raced a regional-level sprint tournament on a 45/14 (86.8") instead of the 45/13 (93.5") that I had planned on using. I won the first round easily, but spun out during the second round and I couldn't figure out why till I took the wheel off.
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