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Old 12-16-14, 09:02 AM
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I'm cobbling together something over the winter, thinking about playing around at Alkek this spring. 15 years removed from the track, started out at Dorais and raced a bit down at Major Taylor (was a 3). My random question, would I get a little better ankle/shoe clearance from a DA crank or a Sugino? I've never spent time on either and like to rub my shoes a bit! Used to ride CRecord w/o issue.
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Old 12-16-14, 09:14 AM
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DA (both models) would have more heel clearance than S75. So would Campy, I believe.
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Old 12-16-14, 11:19 AM
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Best way to increase grip on a turbo please? Ive let down my tire pressure a bit and wound the flywheel up tight to the tire. What is the type of paper that people put on the flywheel for grip? and are turbo trainer tires worth it? if so, which is the best tire to get?
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Old 12-16-14, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76
I'm cobbling together something over the winter, thinking about playing around at Alkek this spring. 15 years removed from the track, started out at Dorais and raced a bit down at Major Taylor (was a 3). My random question, would I get a little better ankle/shoe clearance from a DA crank or a Sugino? I've never spent time on either and like to rub my shoes a bit! Used to ride CRecord w/o issue.
For Q factor - Campy is the narrowest, DA then Sugino. About the same order for clearance at the axle. Going with a narrower crank gives more room for moving the cleat in on the shoe or longer pedal axles (speedplay or DA). If you are going for a newer frame the chainstays might be wider than the steel ones you were used to so watch out for heel rub there too.
Road cranks have become wider over the years so going with extended pedal axles on a track crank can give you more clearance and be closer to your road bike if you are used to that.
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Old 12-16-14, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by slindell
For Q factor - Campy is the narrowest, DA then Sugino. About the same order for clearance at the axle. Going with a narrower crank gives more room for moving the cleat in on the shoe or longer pedal axles (speedplay or DA). If you are going for a newer frame the chainstays might be wider than the steel ones you were used to so watch out for heel rub there too.
Road cranks have become wider over the years so going with extended pedal axles on a track crank can give you more clearance and be closer to your road bike if you are used to that.
Appreciate the info. I'm currently riding a Rival crank on the road & that's working pretty well, older DA "Looks" (love how tight they stay) with a 1mm washer. Sounds like DA might be a better place to start from.
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Old 12-16-14, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76
Appreciate the info. I'm currently riding a Rival crank on the road & that's working pretty well, older DA "Looks" (love how tight they stay) with a 1mm washer. Sounds like DA might be a better place to start from.
If you like the Rival cranks, look into SRAM Omnium track cranks. I owned both at the same time and they were very similar in width (if my memory serves me correctly).
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Old 12-16-14, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
If you like the Rival cranks, look into SRAM Omnium track cranks. I owned both at the same time and they were very similar in width (if my memory serves me correctly).
Thanks for the feedback carleton, had not considered SRAM. How did they compare for stiffness?
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Old 12-16-14, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
If you like the Rival cranks, look into SRAM Omnium track cranks. I owned both at the same time and they were very similar in width (if my memory serves me correctly).
Just make sure your frame can accept the Omniums. They seem to have extra thick arms which interferes with some frames.
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Old 12-16-14, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76
Thanks for the feedback carleton, had not considered SRAM. How did they compare for stiffness?
1) Only the strongest of trackies can feel any difference in stiffness between Sugino, Dura Ace, SRAM, SRM, or Campy cranks. That being said...

2) SRAM are probably the stiffest of them all being that they have:

- external BB
- super thick arms
- super thick crank spider

But, they do have downsides:

1) They come equipped with aluminum double chainring bolts to accommodate the thick chainring spider (and thick stock 48t chainring). This is a pain in the ass because you'll need 2 tools to remove each bolt (as you would a road chainring). Imagine doing that several times on a workout/race day. What's worse is that you can't use normal track chainrings (FSA, Dura Ace, Campy, Sugino, etc...). Bad design.

I suggest that you replace them with the female part of steel SINGLE chainring nuts and glue them into your crank spider. Then use steel DOUBLE male chainring bolts. You can get steel double chainring bolts from a well equipped MTB shop or online. That's what I did.

On a related note: Dura Ace, Campy, and Sugino track cranks come equipped with knurled chainring nuts that seat themselves into the cranks spider so you don't need two tools to remove them for gear changes. Sugino actually sells theirs: https://www.benscycle.com/p-530-sugi...s-knurled.aspx


2) As Brian mentions, a small number of frames have a tight clearance between the chainstay and the crank arm and SRAM Omnium cranks don't clear the chainstay. Just google your frame name and SRAM Omnium and see if anything pops up. If you don't hear anyone complaining, you are probably OK.

3) SRAM Omniums are MUCH less expensive than Sugino, Campy, and Dura Ace track cranks. Why? Because they use a $30 bottom bracket (same for Rival cranks). It's good enough to get you going. But, after a season or two, you'll want to put on a nicer one (around $100). I've seen many people use Phil Wood.

A few US National team riders (Jimmy Watkins, Jennie Reed) rode Sram Omniums at one time. Not sure if it were part of a sponsorship thing or not. But, they are very good cranks if you deal with the relatively minor downsides listed above.
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Old 12-16-14, 02:58 PM
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I've been happier with the BB that comes with the SRAM Omnium - I removed some of the seals, and got a lot less drag as a result.

It wasn't drag that I could feel while riding - just drag I could feel from spinning the cranks.

It'll never be as crazy smooth as a well-maintained sugino, campag, or shimano BB. But that's OK.
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Old 12-16-14, 03:12 PM
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That's very good information. Love the knurled nuts, I think I have a few laying around. Would also like to stick with standard chain rings.
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Old 12-16-14, 03:16 PM
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I've seen plenty of Omniums using FSA, Sugino Zen, Blackspire, and Rotor chainrings. What am I missing here?
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Old 12-16-14, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mukman
I've seen plenty of Omniums using FSA, Sugino Zen, Blackspire, and Rotor chainrings. What am I missing here?
Using double chainring bolts with single chainrings means that there will be a gap. Even if that gap is 1mm, it's enough for the chainring to rattle around.

The chainrings you saw were likely using different chainring bolts than what came with the cranks.
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Old 12-16-14, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mukman
I've seen plenty of Omniums using FSA, Sugino Zen, Blackspire, and Rotor chainrings. What am I missing here?
If you use anything other than the Omnium ring, you have to replace the double chainring nut with a "single" chainring nut.

The knurled nuts are really nice. Dealing with both nuts and bolts every time you change rings is hard, and I've seen a lot of people lose various bolts or nuts in the in-field grass, so the less loose parts to deal with, the better.
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Old 12-16-14, 08:31 PM
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Before Fixed Gear Fever went away- i had a friend convert the "Gear Spread Sheet" that was on the site in to a Google-Doc.. It works great, but at some point someone pointed out that it is giving off bad numbers.. for sure RPM to Speed is bad..

Maybe one of you Smart Guys could take a look and see if its fixable? thx!

its a public file- feel free to change it, copy it, whatever..

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...3c&usp=sharing
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Old 12-16-14, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Quinn8it
Before Fixed Gear Fever went away- i had a friend convert the "Gear Spread Sheet" that was on the site in to a Google-Doc.. It works great, but at some point someone pointed out that it is giving off bad numbers.. for sure RPM to Speed is bad..

Maybe one of you Smart Guys could take a look and see if its fixable? thx!

its a public file- feel free to change it, copy it, whatever..

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...3c&usp=sharing
What is wrong? The numbers look good for a 27" wheel size which will be a few percent off an actual wheel size. The calculation for rpm to speed in the sheet is gear inches * pi * rpm * 60(min per hour) / 12(inches per foot) * 5280 (ft per mile) then a km/mile factor. That looks correct unless I am missing something when looking at the sheet.
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Old 12-16-14, 11:16 PM
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I assume the issue is the difference from the 27" wheel..
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Old 12-17-14, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by slindell
What is wrong? The numbers look good for a 27" wheel size which will be a few percent off an actual wheel size. The calculation for rpm to speed in the sheet is gear inches * pi * rpm * 60(min per hour) / 12(inches per foot) * 5280 (ft per mile) then a km/mile factor. That looks correct unless I am missing something when looking at the sheet.
Originally Posted by Quinn8it
I assume the issue is the difference from the 27" wheel..
I have the same features in the "TT Simulator" section of my app. It seems that the calculations in the FGF spreadsheet come up with slightly higher speed values (0.5 - 1 kph/mph higher)

Quinn, do you have iOS 8 yet?
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Old 12-17-14, 09:23 AM
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I just use this instead:

correal.net
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Old 12-17-14, 09:52 AM
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Yes Carleton...
so it turns out I've had your app with, the ability to do all of this, on my phone for a couple months... Lol..
thanks
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Old 12-17-14, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Quinn8it
Yes Carleton...
so it turns out I've had your app with, the ability to do all of this, on my phone for a couple months... Lol..
thanks
If you want new features, let me know.

I'm thinking about adding Weather to it. Like for your local velodrome:

- Current temp, precipitation, wind
- 1 hour from now: temp, precipitation, wind
- 2 hour from now: temp, precipitation, wind
- 3 hour from now: temp, precipitation, wind
- 4 hour from now: temp, precipitation, wind
- 5 hour from now: temp, precipitation, wind

It's a lot of work and I'd have pay $ to get live feeds from Weather Underground. Not sure if it's worth it. Thoughts?
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Old 12-17-14, 10:08 AM
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Since the only time I actually time a full-gas effort is indoors... Weather is not a big one for me...

What id like is the "Alex Stem Chart" turned in to an entire frame fit calculator!
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Old 12-17-14, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Owen21
Best way to increase grip on a turbo please? Ive let down my tire pressure a bit and wound the flywheel up tight to the tire. What is the type of paper that people put on the flywheel for grip? and are turbo trainer tires worth it? if so, which is the best tire to get?
The tape is the 3M style sandpaper type tape that you use for grip on things like stairs. It's worked quite well for me on my KKRM and not nearly as harsh on my tyre as I thought it would be. IIRC I saw Carleton mention that he just uses a trainer tyre. Do what suits you best
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Old 12-17-14, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Quinn8it
Since the only time I actually time a full-gas effort is indoors... Weather is not a big one for me...

What id like is the "Alex Stem Chart" turned in to an entire frame fit calculator!
That's essentially making an engineering computer aided design tool. Not sure if my head is big enough to do that!
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Old 12-18-14, 09:31 PM
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A poster on another subforum claimed earlier today that it is impossible for anyone to discern the difference between 1 tooth up or down on the chainring. I'm curious if you track guys agree with that or believe that it is possible to tell the difference.
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