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  1. #451
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbs z31 View Post
    Carleton, what would be the real gain(s) and benefit(s) upgrading to the Ultegra pedals? My budget for pedals is right around $200 and the R540 only came up because there's so many positive reviews.
    This is one reason (see the groove in the plastic plate, things are getting loose):


    This pedal is a couple years older with many more miles (still in perfect working condition):


    2014-02-05 21.12.07_scaled.jpg2014-02-05 21.12.34_scaled.jpg
    Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 02-05-14 at 11:13 PM.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  2. #452
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    Dude, 6700's right here for $106 bucks: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/u...s/rp-prod67248

  3. #453
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbs z31 View Post
    Carleton, what would be the real gain(s) and benefit(s) upgrading to the Ultegra pedals? My budget for pedals is right around $200 and the R540 only came up because there's so many positive reviews.
    Brian hit the nail on the head.

    The benefits would be:

    - Improved pedal body cover, from plastic to metal.
    - Bigger platform for the foot with the newer bodies.
    - You can easily install straps if you are a sprinter.

    You don't have to get Ultegra. You can get 105s, too. But, the cut-outs don't exist for you to easily add straps.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    No need to get defensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    This is one reason (see the groove in the plastic plate, things are getting loose):

    No biggy mate. Happy to be schooled where necessary as I haven't seen this wear on mine yet. I do spread my training across fixie, old roadie in the trainer and road bike as well as the track bike, so I guess I don't use them as much as some.

    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    - You can easily install straps if you are a sprinter.

    You don't have to get Ultegra. You can get 105s, too. But, the cut-outs don't exist for you to easily add straps.
    So it seems that I may be looking for another set of these, or I might just get some 105s for my roadie and put the Ultegras onto the track bike. I have some straps in my possession now, so I'm keen to get them on.

    Keep your eyes open for euro store specials. I got my Ultegras for $75 from Wiggle I think

  5. #455
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    http://www.ebay.com/itm/KMC-10R-BICY...item5afa4049d6

    Will one of these work on a regular kmc z410 chain?
    I want the quick-release so I can regularly wax my chain.

    Or is there another chain/setup that I should be looking at for that purpose.

  6. #456
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 View Post
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/KMC-10R-BICY...item5afa4049d6

    Will one of these work on a regular kmc z410 chain?
    I want the quick-release so I can regularly wax my chain.

    Or is there another chain/setup that I should be looking at for that purpose.
    That is a 3/32" 10 speed road bike chain master link. It will not fit on a 1/8" chain, chainring, or cog. Also, if it did fit, that will be the weakest link in the chain. That would be like using a 10 speed chain on your track bike. DO NOT USE IT.

    Just buy a new quality single-speed chain with the assigned quick-release master link already in the box.

  7. #457
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Just buy a new quality single-speed chain with the assigned quick-release master link already in the box.
    Thanks.
    So most of the singlespeed chains will have a master that comes off quickly?

    I'm looking at either a kmc z410 or thought about maybe getting the charge masher.
    Trying to find something reasonable on city grounds or retro, as I need to order a stem as well

  8. #458
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 View Post
    Thanks.
    So most of the singlespeed chains will have a master that comes off quickly?

    I'm looking at either a kmc z410 or thought about maybe getting the charge masher.
    Trying to find something reasonable on city grounds or retro, as I need to order a stem as well
    Yes. They all come with a master link.

    Of all the things on your bike, you don't want to skimp on the chain.

    I've never used the Z410 or Charge Masher, so read reviews or ask for opinions. The key is to buy a quality chain that won't stretch. A chain that has stretched will grind down your more expensive chainrings and cogs and shorten their lives significantly.

  9. #459
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I found I own a pair of Shimano pedals that look like Look pedals. Are they SPD-SL? If I remember right, SPD-SL and Look look similar but are not interchangeable. Do I remmeber right?
    Please email me rather than sending me a private message. My address is noglider@pobox.com

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  10. #460
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I found I own a pair of Shimano pedals that look like Look pedals. Are they SPD-SL? If I remember right, SPD-SL and Look look similar but are not interchangeable. Do I remmeber right?
    The very old shimanos were identical to Look Delta ("old" Look). Newer shimanos (see my previous post) use a totally different cleat than Looks of all types.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    The very old shimanos were identical to Look Delta ("old" Look). Newer shimanos (see my previous post) use a totally different cleat than Looks of all types.
    Are you sure?

    I have some SPD-Rs and then transitioned to SPD-SL. I remember Shimano producing a delta compatable cleat between those two. Was the cleat you speak of prior to the SPD-R era?
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    The very old shimanos were identical to Look Delta ("old" Look). Newer shimanos (see my previous post) use a totally different cleat than Looks of all types.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Are you sure?

    I have some SPD-Rs and then transitioned to SPD-SL. I remember Shimano producing a delta compatable cleat between those two. Was the cleat you speak of prior to the SPD-R era?

    Nevermind. I forgot all about the fact that Shimano licensed Look's road pedal design and even had Look building them, in the early 90's before they introduced SPDR in '96.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  13. #463
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Nevermind. I forgot all about the fact that Shimano licensed Look's road pedal design and even had Look building them, in the early 90's before they introduced SPDR in '96.
    Exactly. They went with SPD-SL because Lance Armstrong refused to use SPD-R (or so the story goes...).

    Track sprinters then wept.
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  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Exactly. They went with SPD-SL because Lance Armstrong refused to use SPD-R (or so the story goes...).

    Track sprinters then wept.
    I can't find the clip right now and I don't remember the year. But, I remember one of the monument climbs on the TDF where LA was suffering cleat issues and his foot kept slipping out. I believe that was on SPD-R and it was after that that LA refused to use the system. But, I may very well be incorrect on this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Anyhow. Yes, SPD-R are probably the top of foot retention while remaining releasable. I still have some DA SPD-Rs in a box in the garage. I will say though, since moving to SPD-L I have not fallen on my side once for inability to remove my foot after coming to a full stop without having previously thought about it. Where, there were a few times with SPD-R where it just wasn't coming out unless thought about and performed well in advance.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  15. #465
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    There exists a video where Armstrong unclipped during the start of a TDF time trial. Maybe 2005? Not sure which pedals he was using.

    I'm using my phone now. Will link it later.

  16. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Exactly. They went with SPD-SL because Lance Armstrong refused to use SPD-R (or so the story goes...).

    Track sprinters then wept.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    I can't find the clip right now and I don't remember the year. But, I remember one of the monument climbs on the TDF where LA was suffering cleat issues and his foot kept slipping out. I believe that was on SPD-R and it was after that that LA refused to use the system. But, I may very well be incorrect on this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Anyhow. Yes, SPD-R are probably the top of foot retention while remaining releasable. I still have some DA SPD-Rs in a box in the garage. I will say though, since moving to SPD-L I have not fallen on my side once for inability to remove my foot after coming to a full stop without having previously thought about it. Where, there were a few times with SPD-R where it just wasn't coming out unless thought about and performed well in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    There exists a video where Armstrong unclipped during the start of a TDF time trial. Maybe 2005? Not sure which pedals he was using.

    I'm using my phone now. Will link it later.
    2003, Pyrenees, after colliding with the woman and her shopping bag and crashing, had his foot slip out repeatedly whilst attempting to get back to the leaders. Hamiltion, now working for CSC, slowed the peleton (hmmmm). 2003 means Dura ace 7800, but SPD-SL (7750) pedals debuted the previous year as an upgrade to 7700 which previously had SPD-R and were dubbed "the Lance pedals". So, I guess he was already on SPD-SL at that point.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  17. #467
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Yup. It was 2005 in the instance I remembered:


  18. #468
    Senior Member
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    This is the instance I was thinking of:
    Crash at 00:40 and then pedal issue at 1:40.

    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  19. #469
    Senior Member
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    Back to small, random track related questions:

    Do my old, used, Dura-Ace SPD-R pedals have any value to speak of? Or, have sprinters all found suitable alternatives at this point?
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  20. #470
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Back to small, random track related questions:

    Do my old, used, Dura-Ace SPD-R pedals have any value to speak of? Or, have sprinters all found suitable alternatives at this point?
    The pedals are desired. The hard part is finding shoes that are drilled for SPD-R cleats.

    Most sprinters seem to be happy affixing straps to SPD-SL and LOOK Keo Max 2 systems being that they can easily find shoes, cleats, and pedals.

    For those not familiar:

    Last edited by carleton; 02-06-14 at 06:27 PM.

  21. #471
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    The pedals are desired. The hard part is finding shoes that are drilled for SPD-R cleats.
    I've got a pair of the Shimano adapter plates I could include with them.

    Do we have a Track Racing Classifieds?
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  22. #472
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    I've got a pair of the Shimano adapter plates I could include with them.

    Do we have a Track Racing Classifieds?
    Unfortunately, no. You'd have to post in the general classifieds section.

    Actually, just last week I asked the Admins to allow us to have a Track-specific classifieds section. They are considering it but no decision has been made.

  23. #473
    Senior Member
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    Sorry, the adapter plates I have are Sidi specific. But, it appears as though the Shimano ones are still available:
    http://www.evanscycles.com/products/...apter-ec041627
    Because "small, random, track-related questions" might draw some newer riders who aren't familliar with what we're talking about.

    A complete set of Shimano "SPD-R" pedals, cleats and Sidi adapter plates:
    [IMG][/IMG]

    You can see how the adapter plate sits in a recess in the sole of the old Sidi shoe: (In this case, a 3 bolt adapter with SPD-SL mounted. Not the distance between aft bolts and rear lip for later reference.)
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Where the SPD/SPD-R plate would go:
    [IMG][/IMG]

    On the plate goes, first the sponson, then the sponson holding cleat spacer:
    [IMG][/IMG]

    The cleat rests on top of that:
    [IMG][/IMG]

    And the bolts hold it all together:
    [IMG][/IMG]

    What is really great about this cleat design is that because it is entirely metal there is no forward compression of the toe area that results in decreased rear engagement. And, that there is no overhanging loaded plastic as there is in the SPD-SL and Look cleats. Furthermore, there's no appreciable wear to the metal trailing edge of cleat as there frequently is with the plastic cleats.

    If you look closely at my SPD-SL cleats that are moved all the way after you can see how much unsupported plastic there is from the bolt heads to the actual lip. As one drives the shoe forward and down this allows the lip to flex down as the heal is lifted, shortening the distance between the trailing edge of the cleat and the forward face of the cleat. While simultaneously the forward face of the cleat will be getting compressed at the front of the pedal. The result is, POP, out comes your foot.

    The all metal SPD-R design eliminates these issues. But, substitutes some of it's own: narrower foot contact zone, reduced ease of walking and while crisper also a less easy release. It's not tolerant of quick flick exits when one has stalled without previously unclipping. Such as track standing at stop lights. Subsequently, quite a few people fell over with their feet still attached and the pedals got a bum wrap for being overly retentive.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  24. #474
    VeloSIRraptor
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    so, in case I hypothetically have an Actual Pile of these sitting around- who actually wants a pair or three?
    (cause you know, I maybe have access to a pile of these things)

    I don't know a single racer who still uses them, even the old guard around here switched a year or two ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  25. #475
    Senior Member Huffandstuff's Avatar
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    I am having a hard time finding a decent selection of 31.8 track drops, found one pair of Nitto B123AA but they are special ordered and everything else is all 40-42CM or insanely heavy.

    Is 25.6 pretty much the norm for track?

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