Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Is there a significant aero benefit between a Zipp 808 to the 404? Do the rim depth (+30mm) make the wheel stiffer?
if you are talking FC, they are actually very close at low YAW angles.
Assuming the wheels cost the same (no idea), the 808 is the wheel to get, but probably not worth replacing your 404 if you had one. I haven't noticed the 808 to be a pain to ride in wind (I tt on one) but then again Im fat.
and according to
TOUR QTR 4-2011
the 808 is stiffer than a 404. and also more aero.
Last edited by gtrob; 03-19-14 at 11:23 PM.
So I see a masi Coltello up for sale ( 2013 Masi Coltello NEW Fixed/track frame and fork ) and tried doing some googling but coming up on almost no results for reviews. Anyone have any firsthand/secondhand experience with these?
I currently ride a Kilo and have no problems with it but it is kind of heavy at almost 20 lbs so it seems like a decent upgrade for 400 bucks.
For starters, the problem with your Kilo isn't the weight. Weight doesn't matter on the track. Some of the best bikes in the world, outfitted with the fastest race wheels in the world, are absolute tanks.
But - that Masi would be a nice upgrade.
They're in the same category as a bunch of other completely decent aluminum track frames - Felt, Fuji, Bianchi, etc. The cool thing about an aluminum track frame with a carbon fork is that it's cheap, and it's sufficient up to a really high level of racing. That's also what's awesome about track racing.
Thanks for all the feedback on the fivespoke vs 3 spoke wheels
"All this talk of climbing is making me feel kinda queasy..." -- Baby Puke
queerpunk, could you explain a bit further why weight doesn't matter on the track? As you may know, I have my first track bike, and it is heavy, and you might be reassuring me. Plus, it's an interesting topic, even if I weren't planning to start this sport.
So being on a 12 pound bike or an 18 pound bike, isn't going to make the difference between being awesome or not.
More time on the track should be the focus.
I could be wrong, but that's how I'd interpret it. Same thing with most sports and high end equipment.
That's what I figured, and I'm glad you are confirming it. I think mine might be over 20 pounds, which might matter a little, but probably not.
What about handlebars? I put Nitto steel bars on the bike. Do I really need steel? I understand it is considered important on the track, but I have weak, scrawny shoulders and arms. What should I be concerned about, other than increasing my strength? I've started doing pushups and sit-ups, and I'll add more exercises soon.
My favorite core workout is uphill interval work while standing. Doing repeats of hills that are between 2 and 6 minutes long and close to 5% grade and stay out of the saddle the whole time or as much as you can really works your core and arms. Plus the lower RPM that I use replaces weight training in my book and lets me double up my training effort while working the crap out of my lungs as my heart rate maxes out each time. Until you want the extra equipment for looks and piece of mind, beating people while you ride a cheaper/stronger/heavier bike because you train harder is so much more rewarding. I use to get demolished on climbs by a guy who weighed more than me while he road his 25+ pound training bike with fenders. That just killed my ego each time, but I kept going.
I'm very familiar with the satisfaction of beating someone while having worse equipment! A few weeks ago, a thin, young roadie on a fancy road racing bike tried to draft me. He had trouble keeping up with me. I got home and weighed my bike, a mid-90's Bianchi Volpe, loaded with every accessory known to mankind. With my gigantic Kryptonite chain and padlock, the whole setup weighed 48 pounds. The other guy's bike probably weighed less than half of that.
I also beat a young guy up a hill a few years ago. He was on an unloaded bike, and I was towing two kids in a trailer!
Yikes, 48lbs is a lot of bike! I think my 'heavy' beater bike is only ~22lbs, and my race bike is 7.7kg (which is 2lbs over the min still)
The lock is eight pounds, so I only carry it when necessary.
The best track bikes in the world are heavy, because what matters is aerodynamic and stiffness, not weight. the Mavic io/comete wheel combination weighs about twice as much as a nice road wheelset.
as Baby Puke said, some people want light wheels - they'll accelerate faster. But unless you're riding long climbs, the only effect of a light bike is greater comfort when you're carrying it up the stairs to your apartment.
Yeah, that's all true, and it's good you put it in that perspective. Of course, there are limits. I'm sure if my track bike weighed 48 pounds, its weight would cause me problems in races.
A heavier bike is harder to accelerate and decelerate. This hurts in a race with lots of speed changes. For steady-state time trial efforts, it's less of a factor.
People say that "weight doesn't matter on the track", but that's really comparing it to road racing where weight on a course with significant inclines is a big deal.
"Weight doesn't matter on the track" the same way that 230lb guys can be competitive in Pro/1/2 crits...on a flat-ish course.
The maxim should be, "Don't freak out if your track bike isn't 15lbs because 24lb track bikes are normal, even at the world level."
Last edited by carleton; 03-20-14 at 02:33 PM.
To put weight into perspective, I weighed my old 57cm Felt TK1 with SRM, Mavic Io, Mavic Comete, etc... It was over 20lbs/9kg.
I've heard that the BT Strealth is heavier.
I really think that we should take note of Bike/Body weight ratios more than simply bike weight.