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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    For sprint: all out for 100-1000m (depending on what you are working on). Stagger to your chair. Some people choose to puke at this point (they'll usually visit the storm drain prior to sitting. Usually). Sit for 15-20 minutes. x5. Give or take.

    There's a variety of other drills, but pretty much everything is done at an intensity way harder than your average roadie has ever experienced, for a much shorter time, with a lot longer rest.

    For enduro: they road race. More or less.
    Thanks Brian, anyone else?

  2. #202
    Senior Member Velocirapture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbs z31 View Post
    Thanks Brian, anyone else?
    Thats a pretty good summary.
    depends on the athlete, the stage of training (if you periodize your training), and the purpose of the session. My
    coach has us do 'Russian Step' intervals during the months where the focus is on conditioning rather than pure speed (sprinters and enduros). Warm up then half lap flat out, half lap recover, 1 lap flat out, half lap recover, 1.5 flat out, 1 recover, 2 flat out, 2 recover, then take it back down via 1.5, 1, 0.5. collapse on the floor in the middle of the track until he chases us back out for another set. There are other variations. When it comes to intervals, the length of your effort period and the length of your recovery will affect what energy systems you are using and training.

  3. #203
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    For sprint: all out for 100-1000m (depending on what you are working on). Stagger to your chair. Some people choose to puke at this point (they'll usually visit the storm drain prior to sitting. Usually). Sit for 15-20 minutes. x5. Give or take.
    My track days are way more efforts with way less recovery between.

  4. #204
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    My track days are way more efforts with way less recovery between.
    It's a tradeoff between level of effort and rest. I'm probably too lax. But most of the stuff I do is not submaximal, which means there aren't a huge number of efforts involved.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  5. #205
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    It's a tradeoff between level of effort and rest. I'm probably too lax. But most of the stuff I do is not submaximal, which means there aren't a huge number of efforts involved.
    For me the lower volume/ maximal effort program showed quick gains then leveled off... I think it takes a huge foundation and a lot of knowledge of yourself as an athlete to maximize your progress on a low volume program.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    My track days are way more efforts with way less recovery between.
    Quinn, do you ever do maximal efforts with full recovery?

  7. #207
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
    Quinn, do you ever do maximal efforts with full recovery?
    I do.
    My flying 200m and most of my standing start work is maximal effort/full recovery..

    But the flying 200 work is always done late in my training day- after a lot of stacked kilo efforts..

    I also do single maximal efforts when I'm tapering..

  8. #208
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    For me the lower volume/ maximal effort program showed quick gains then leveled off... I think it takes a huge foundation and a lot of knowledge of yourself as an athlete to maximize your progress on a low volume program.
    This is intriguing to me. I'm always experimenting and looking for new ways of training.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  9. #209
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    I want to try waxing my chain. I'd like to try for myself to see if it does a good job of keeping the chain/cog looking clean.
    Whats a decently priced chain that is quick/easy to remove that would also be fine for road use.

  10. #210
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 View Post
    I want to try waxing my chain. I'd like to try for myself to see if it does a good job of keeping the chain/cog looking clean.
    Whats a decently priced chain that is quick/easy to remove that would also be fine for road use.
    Izumi makes a couple budget models which are okay for around $20.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  11. #211
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 View Post
    I want to try waxing my chain. I'd like to try for myself to see if it does a good job of keeping the chain/cog looking clean.
    Whats a decently priced chain that is quick/easy to remove that would also be fine for road use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Izumi makes a couple budget models which are okay for around $20.
    Yeah, that's the Izumi ECO. Nice chain that I've used off and on for years.

    bmontgomery, also consider the KMC K710 or K710-SL. These are about $20-25 and should be at local shops that cater to BMX or Fixed-Gear riders. It's burly chain made for BMX freestyle (which can be hard on chains) but is rated for like 4,000lbs of break force. It's heavier than others, but it's inexpensive, quiet, and strong.

  12. #212
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Yeah, that's the Izumi ECO. Nice chain that I've used off and on for years.

    bmontgomery, also consider the KMC K710 or K710-SL. These are about $20-25 and should be at local shops that cater to BMX or Fixed-Gear riders. It's burly chain made for BMX freestyle (which can be hard on chains) but is rated for like 4,000lbs of break force. It's heavier than others, but it's inexpensive, quiet, and strong.
    i have been using the KMC D101 for the past year and have liked it- but they have suddenly become hard to get.. anyone know why?

  13. #213
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    This is intriguing to me. I'm always experimenting and looking for new ways of training.
    it is far easier to increase volume based effort than maximal intensity effort.. but both increase maximal capacity.

    for example:
    if you wanted to compete in power-lifting you could go into the gym and do a half dozen maximal singles with full rest between, or you could go in and do 3 sets of 5 reps.
    both approaches will undoubtedly yield a higher 1-rep max. I suspect you might even get faster gains initially, in regards to your max with the singles based program, but i doubt that progress will be sustainable. The program based on higher number of reps will do a better job of building more systems thoroughly. It will build more general fitness, and It will do a better job of building supporting muscles. More reps will give you more opportunities to assess and fix form and technique issues that may contribute you moving less weight. Its also safer.

    Now if you study the programs of the strongest power-lifters they are for sure doing low rep and partial pull programs- but that is because they have done a massive amount of foundation work to support that.. You cant just start there.


    Take a look at a typical program for track and field training- 400m runners are doing high volume and intervals with short recovery. Same goes for swimming..

  14. #214
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Izumi makes a couple budget models which are okay for around $20.
    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Yeah, that's the Izumi ECO. Nice chain that I've used off and on for years.

    bmontgomery, also consider the KMC K710 or K710-SL. These are about $20-25 and should be at local shops that cater to BMX or Fixed-Gear riders. It's burly chain made for BMX freestyle (which can be hard on chains) but is rated for like 4,000lbs of break force. It's heavier than others, but it's inexpensive, quiet, and strong.

    Thanks for the speedy replies. I'm looking into those options now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    it is far easier to increase volume based effort than maximal intensity effort.. but both increase maximal capacity.

    for example:
    if you wanted to compete in power-lifting you could go into the gym and do a half dozen maximal singles with full rest between, or you could go in and do 3 sets of 5 reps.
    both approaches will undoubtedly yield a higher 1-rep max. I suspect you might even get faster gains initially, in regards to your max with the singles based program, but i doubt that progress will be sustainable. The program based on higher number of reps will do a better job of building more systems thoroughly. It will build more general fitness, and It will do a better job of building supporting muscles. More reps will give you more opportunities to assess and fix form and technique issues that may contribute you moving less weight. Its also safer.

    Now if you study the programs of the strongest power-lifters they are for sure doing low rep and partial pull programs- but that is because they have done a massive amount of foundation work to support that.. You cant just start there.


    Take a look at a typical program for track and field training- 400m runners are doing high volume and intervals with short recovery. Same goes for swimming..
    I can agree here. I competed in powerlifting, and while I tapered down to the heavy singles of insanely high intensity for a while, I responded much better to less intense training done more frequently. It allows you to address form issues and get a lot more practice in.
    It's strictly personal preference though, some people like doing really intense workouts a couple times per week, others want to train frequently. Just have to find what works for you, IMO.
    But 9/10 people at the elite level most likely started out building their base with reps and lots of volume.

  15. #215
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    it is far easier to increase volume based effort than maximal intensity effort.. but both increase maximal capacity.

    for example:
    if you wanted to compete in power-lifting you could go into the gym and do a half dozen maximal singles with full rest between, or you could go in and do 3 sets of 5 reps.
    both approaches will undoubtedly yield a higher 1-rep max. I suspect you might even get faster gains initially, in regards to your max with the singles based program, but i doubt that progress will be sustainable. The program based on higher number of reps will do a better job of building more systems thoroughly. It will build more general fitness, and It will do a better job of building supporting muscles. More reps will give you more opportunities to assess and fix form and technique issues that may contribute you moving less weight. Its also safer.

    Now if you study the programs of the strongest power-lifters they are for sure doing low rep and partial pull programs- but that is because they have done a massive amount of foundation work to support that.. You cant just start there.


    Take a look at a typical program for track and field training- 400m runners are doing high volume and intervals with short recovery. Same goes for swimming..

    I agree with this. You can do it both ways, especially for us "Novice"* to "Intermediate" athletes.

    I've seen track sprinters work really hard (and struggle) towards their 1 rep max, when lower weight combined with higher volume/reps would provide the same results is a more safe way. I've also seen track sprinters on a ridiculously high volume program (think roadie base miles combined with heavy lifting 3x/week). I've also seen guys who "Ride when I can. Lift when I can." and all of them have similar relative gains.

    I say pick the program that works with your work/life balance and use it till you see gains diminish...and don't be fat Because track racing (and cycling in general) is always about the power/weight ratio. So there are two things you can improve to become faster.

  16. #216
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Happy Holidays!

    A song for everyone.

  17. #217
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    Anyone here convert their rollers to freemotion rollers? If so, was it worth it?

  18. #218
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    I almost would think free motion rollers would be counter productive for track.

    Rollers are great because they force you to smooth out your kinks, something very beneficial on the track. Free motion rollers are too forgiving in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
    No offense but you're an idiot.
    PedalRoom

  19. #219
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbs z31 View Post
    Anyone here convert their rollers to freemotion rollers? If so, was it worth it?
    Trackies generally use rollers in a different way than what freemotion rollers work.

    Trackies use rollers for:

    - Warm up
    - Cool down
    - Leg Speed work
    - Smoothing out the pedal stroke (this means holding still, not up, down, in, out of the saddle)

    This is also why trackies prefer larger rollers to smaller. It's not about resistance when trackies use rollers.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    I do.
    My flying 200m and most of my standing start work is maximal effort/full recovery..

    But the flying 200 work is always done late in my training day- after a lot of stacked kilo efforts..

    I also do single maximal efforts when I'm tapering..
    I'm curious to hear why you do the 200's after the lactate stuff. I would think it might be better to do the higher intensity/quality (200s) first?

  21. #221
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    I say pick the program that works with your work/life balance and use it till you see gains diminish...and don't be fat Because track racing (and cycling in general) is always about the power/weight ratio. So there are two things you can improve to become faster.
    In terms of flexibility and finding a way to strength train even with lots of other stuff going on, 5/3/1 has been on of the easiest programs to follow. The progression won't run you in the ground, there are fifty different assistance templates, and it's easy to set-up and understand. There were months when I ran the program and had workouts that lasted 60-70 minutes, and there have been times when I've done the essentials in 25 minutes and still gotten stronger from month to month.

  22. #222
    mxs
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    Had a look through the Protip thread, but didn't see it mentioned. Any recommendations on tool boxes or solutions for storing your basic gear (chainring, cogs, pliers, allenkeys, wrench, etc...) nice and sorted at home?
    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Wouldn't stand a chance. Like bringing a knife to a laser cat fight.

  23. #223
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    Track bags. I beleive Chicago velodrome sells one.
    Maybe another one of the track specific vendors. I sew, so i planned on making my own once i find the time.

  24. #224
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    Had a look through the Protip thread, but didn't see it mentioned. Any recommendations on tool boxes or solutions for storing your basic gear (chainring, cogs, pliers, allenkeys, wrench, etc...) nice and sorted at home?
    Search for "Track Sack" or "Keirin Tote". Both Euro Asia Imports and Chicago Velo Campus make some as well as many others.

    Euro Asia: (Here it is sold in Bikeforums Moderator Scrod's online shop): http://www.retro-gression.com/produc...eirin-tote-bag

    (By the way, Scrod is a good dude that offers great prices in his online shop. He's not active in the Track forum. He's mostly in the Fixed Gear forum.)

    Chicago Velo Campus: http://www.chicagovelocampus.com/sho...rack-tool-bag/

  25. #225
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    Had a look through the Protip thread, but didn't see it mentioned. Any recommendations on tool boxes or solutions for storing your basic gear (chainring, cogs, pliers, allenkeys, wrench, etc...) nice and sorted at home?
    I found a cloth sided tool bag at Home Depot that is perfect for carrying tools. I have a track tot (from EAI) to hold my drivetrain parts and it fits right inside.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

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