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-   -   **** just got real - UCI revisiting the Lugano Charter (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/926746-just-got-real-uci-revisiting-lugano-charter.html)

Velocirapture 12-22-13 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16351317)
Help me understand…

this seams to contradict your experience at worlds??

I'm not too clear on where you are seeing this contradiction?
i'd say this para pretty much sums up what I mentioned as my experience?; The commissaires at world masters all allowed me to ride with my saddle nose in line with the BB. Including in my pursuit.:
'1.3.013 The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical plane passing through the bottom bracket spindle. This restriction shall not be applied to the bicycle
ridden by a rider in a sprint event on track (flying 200 m, flying lap, sprint, team sprint,
keirin, 500 metres and 1 kilometre); however, in no circumstances shall the peak of the
saddle extend in front of a vertical line passing through the bottom bracket spindle.'

And the next part of the para;
' It is also possible to add a handlebar extension
for the 500 m and kilometre time trials on the track, but in this case, the position of the tip
of the saddle must be at least 5 cm behind the vertical plane passing through the bottom
bracket axle.'
lines up with this bit that i mentioned 'and one of the commissaires mentioned that that had fallen away as the current take is that that the overall reach from back of saddle to front of pursuit bars couldn't be more than a certain length in total. So perhaps that's the factor for yourself and Babypuke?'

Please let me know where you are seeing it differently, so that i can be more clear with my communication?

Racer Ex 12-22-13 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16351413)
WOW! so you are saying that if i keep my extension tips inside 75cm i can ride my saddle inside of 5cm???

that might take some adapting- as i always get a morph for extension length.. my 29" legs and 72" wingspan made the extension morph easy to pass..

not having to change saddles every time i put on aero bars would be amazing!!!

That's clearly what's stated. The bulletin also notes that 2013 regs would be the same as 2012 and this is effective in 2014.

it doesn't differentiate between road and track, hopefully they will remember to update the track portion of the rulebook. I suggest dropping them and USAC several notes as reminders.

I swap out my saddle when I change to aerobars anyway, but It's going to be nice to put the saddle up where I'm better locked into the position.

Quinn8it 12-22-13 02:26 PM

Are we speaking a different language?

don't you think this says that the saddle has to be 5cm behind the bottom bracket unless you are riding a "sprint"??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocirapture (Post 16351415)
'1.3.013 The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical plane passing through the bottom bracket spindle. This restriction shall not be applied to the bicycle
ridden by a rider in a sprint event on track (flying 200 m, flying lap, sprint, team sprint,
keirin, 500 metres and 1 kilometre); however, in no circumstances shall the peak of the
saddle extend in front of a vertical line passing through the bottom bracket spindle.'

Babypuke and I are not getting stuck by a singled out morph issue- moving kilo position with aero bars back to 5cm behind the BB was the biggest news of the year last year and was heavily enforced at both Masters Nats and Elite Nats last year here in the US- and i know my reading comprehension is not great.. but doesn't this clearly state that a kilo ridden in aerobars must have the saddle 5cm behind the bb?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocirapture (Post 16351415)
And the next part of the para;
' It is also possible to add a handlebar extension
for the 500 m and kilometre time trials on the track, but in this case, the position of the tip
of the saddle must be at least 5 cm behind the vertical plane passing through the bottom
bracket axle.'
lines up with this bit that i mentioned 'and one of the commissaires mentioned that that had fallen away as the current take is that that the overall reach from back of saddle to front of pursuit bars couldn't be more than a certain length in total. So perhaps that's the factor for yourself and Babypuke?'

Please let me know where you are seeing it differently, so that i can be more clear with my communication?


Quinn8it 12-22-13 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16351431)
That's clearly what's stated. The bulletin also notes that 2013 regs would be the same as 2012 and this is effective in 2014.

it doesn't differentiate between road and track, hopefully they will remember to update the track portion of the rulebook. I suggest dropping them and USAC several notes as reminders.

Just heard back from an official here in SoCal- and this is in fact a correct interpretation of the new rule.. Effective jan 1st 2014

Best News Ive Had ALL Year!!!! :thumb:

just measured my extensions- looks like ill need to lose about 2cm to comply.. but no more saddle swapping!!!:D

Baby Puke 12-22-13 07:02 PM

I think it's being suggested that the rule can now be interpreted as either/or regarding saddle set back vs. ski extension. I think it's a bit early to make any conclusions on what exactly will go down at bike inspections, so I'm not gonna start celebrating yet.

Racer Ex 12-22-13 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 16352011)
I think it's being suggested that the rule can now be interpreted as either/or regarding saddle set back vs. ski extension. I think it's a bit early to make any conclusions on what exactly will go down at bike inspections, so I'm not gonna start celebrating yet.

It's clearly written, not suggested. If some official is an idiot, you need to whip out the rule book and hit them with it.

This sport can be pretty sorry ass sometimes. I did an omnium this year where they screwed me off the podium because the written race bible and website race bible didn't match. Though that was trivial compared to their enforcement of the center line rule.

I got relegated for going over the centerline in a field sprint once. The only problem was I soloed in a minute ahead of the field.

Really, I got an endless supply of bad officiating stories.

Quinn8it 12-22-13 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 16352011)
I think it's being suggested that the rule can now be interpreted as either/or regarding saddle set back vs. ski extension. I think it's a bit early to make any conclusions on what exactly will go down at bike inspections, so I'm not gonna start celebrating yet.

As I said- I got conformation from an official that this is happening- sounded pretty cut and dry.

Baby Puke 12-23-13 12:15 AM

Wow. Well this is great news then! Saddle, prepare to be moved forward a whopping 2 cm. In yr face, UCI!

Quinn8it 12-23-13 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 16352607)
Wow. Well this is great news then! Saddle, prepare to be moved forward a whopping 2 cm. In yr face, UCI!

For me I had to use a Fizik Ares- that is 4cm shorter than my regal- and I swapped saddles (and post) every time I switched from drops to aero-bars..

I destroyed my Tiemeyer at the binder bolt from this repeated changing, and it made a carbon frame a friend gave me unusable- because it couldn't take the repeated changing at the carbon post..

Racer Ex 12-23-13 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16353305)
For me I had to use a Fizik Ares- that is 4cm shorter than my regal- and I swapped saddles (and post) every time I switched from drops to aero-bars..

I destroyed my Tiemeyer at the binder bolt from this repeated changing, and it made a carbon frame a friend gave me unusable- because it couldn't take the repeated changing at the carbon post..

Typical sprinter...meat for hands ;)

http://www.odditycentral.com/wp-cont...Hand-Pic.1.jpg

carleton 12-23-13 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16353539)
Typical sprinter...meat for hands ;)

Did someone mention meat?



Seriously. Is there meat around here.


Just asking...cuz hungry.

Quinn8it 12-23-13 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16353539)
Typical sprinter...meat for hands ;)

http://www.odditycentral.com/wp-cont...Hand-Pic.1.jpg

Yes… and my meaty ass makes the seat post slip if i don't give it the power torque!

Brian Ratliff 12-23-13 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16354105)
Yes… and my meaty ass makes the seat post slip if i don't give it the power torque!

This happened to me once during a race. I was wondering why I was having trouble generating power in the seated position. Turns out the seatpost slipped an inch due to not tightening it enough.

Fun note: at my track (Alpenrose), ~38mph gives you 2G centripetal acceleration. This means for a 200lb guy, you are putting 400lbs (not including lateral or shock loads) on the wheels. That's getting close to a quarter ton.

slindell 12-23-13 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff (Post 16354180)
Fun note: at my track (Alpenrose), ~38mph gives you 2G centripetal acceleration. This means for a 200lb guy, you are putting 400lbs (not including lateral or shock loads) on the wheels. That's getting close to a quarter ton.

Alpenrose is special - first corner at speed there and my seatpost slipped 2" on a bike that was fine all season at Marymoor.

Brian Ratliff 12-23-13 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slindell (Post 16354191)
Alpenrose is special ...

Is that what we are calling it now? ;)

slindell 12-23-13 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff (Post 16354205)
Is that what we are calling it now? ;)

It is better than 'riding on the short track'.

Brian Ratliff 12-23-13 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slindell (Post 16354333)
It is better than 'riding on the short track'.

Yea? Well, we call your track a glorified crit course. :D

Racer Ex 12-23-13 06:54 PM

FWIW Gstien broke his seat post off the other day on a group ride and rode the last 30 minutes standing. On his fixed gear.

I did half an MTB race like that.

I've been swapping back and forth on the Dolan. Aluminum seat posts and I had to de-bugger the binder from the factory. Do a big tape wrap where it meats (slid that one in there) the frame. So far, so good.

Hida Yanra 12-23-13 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff (Post 16354521)
Yea? Well, we call your track a glorified crit course. :D

so, ah.... potentially both are true?

slindell 12-24-13 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff (Post 16354521)
Yea? Well, we call your track a glorified crit course. :D

Yes - but this does bring up a question:
Does a shorter/steeper track result in a greater percentage of sprinters or just sprint events?
It seems like Burnaby and Alpenrose have lots of sprinters, Marymoor more pursuit or mass start. Is this a function of the track or just the races run?

Brian Ratliff 12-24-13 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slindell (Post 16356675)
Yes - but this does bring up a question:
Does a shorter/steeper track result in a greater percentage of sprinters or just sprint events?
It seems like Burnaby and Alpenrose have lots of sprinters, Marymoor more pursuit or mass start. Is this a function of the track or just the races run?

Maybe. I've heard from people who've raced up at Marymoor that sprinting is more drag-racey than at Alpenrose. I hope to experience that for myself come next year.

But more than that, I think it's just the people involved. There is a bike shop in Portland which focuses on track bikes exclusively; they have a team (black and white checkered: Bike Central) that is centered around sprinting. Prior to that team forming up and hosting a weekly sprint tourney, there was not much in the way of a sprint scene apparently. Directly because of this effort, we've had a lot of good sprinters come out of our track.

Quinn8it 12-24-13 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff (Post 16356711)
we've had a lot of good sprinters come out of our track.

Some of them too damn good! ;)

carleton 12-24-13 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16356775)
Some of them too damn good! ;)


Tell me about it.


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