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  1. #26
    Senior Member Velocirapture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    Help me understand…

    this seams to contradict your experience at worlds??
    I'm not too clear on where you are seeing this contradiction?
    i'd say this para pretty much sums up what I mentioned as my experience?; The commissaires at world masters all allowed me to ride with my saddle nose in line with the BB. Including in my pursuit.:
    '1.3.013 The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical plane passing through the bottom bracket spindle. This restriction shall not be applied to the bicycle
    ridden by a rider in a sprint event on track (flying 200 m, flying lap, sprint, team sprint,
    keirin, 500 metres and 1 kilometre); however, in no circumstances shall the peak of the
    saddle extend in front of a vertical line passing through the bottom bracket spindle.'

    And the next part of the para;
    ' It is also possible to add a handlebar extension
    for the 500 m and kilometre time trials on the track, but in this case, the position of the tip
    of the saddle must be at least 5 cm behind the vertical plane passing through the bottom
    bracket axle.'
    lines up with this bit that i mentioned 'and one of the commissaires mentioned that that had fallen away as the current take is that that the overall reach from back of saddle to front of pursuit bars couldn't be more than a certain length in total. So perhaps that's the factor for yourself and Babypuke?'

    Please let me know where you are seeing it differently, so that i can be more clear with my communication?

  2. #27
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    WOW! so you are saying that if i keep my extension tips inside 75cm i can ride my saddle inside of 5cm???

    that might take some adapting- as i always get a morph for extension length.. my 29" legs and 72" wingspan made the extension morph easy to pass..

    not having to change saddles every time i put on aero bars would be amazing!!!
    That's clearly what's stated. The bulletin also notes that 2013 regs would be the same as 2012 and this is effective in 2014.

    it doesn't differentiate between road and track, hopefully they will remember to update the track portion of the rulebook. I suggest dropping them and USAC several notes as reminders.

    I swap out my saddle when I change to aerobars anyway, but It's going to be nice to put the saddle up where I'm better locked into the position.

  3. #28
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Are we speaking a different language?

    don't you think this says that the saddle has to be 5cm behind the bottom bracket unless you are riding a "sprint"??

    Quote Originally Posted by Velocirapture View Post
    '1.3.013 The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical plane passing through the bottom bracket spindle. This restriction shall not be applied to the bicycle
    ridden by a rider in a sprint event on track (flying 200 m, flying lap, sprint, team sprint,
    keirin, 500 metres and 1 kilometre); however, in no circumstances shall the peak of the
    saddle extend in front of a vertical line passing through the bottom bracket spindle.'
    Babypuke and I are not getting stuck by a singled out morph issue- moving kilo position with aero bars back to 5cm behind the BB was the biggest news of the year last year and was heavily enforced at both Masters Nats and Elite Nats last year here in the US- and i know my reading comprehension is not great.. but doesn't this clearly state that a kilo ridden in aerobars must have the saddle 5cm behind the bb?
    Quote Originally Posted by Velocirapture View Post
    And the next part of the para;
    ' It is also possible to add a handlebar extension
    for the 500 m and kilometre time trials on the track, but in this case, the position of the tip
    of the saddle must be at least 5 cm behind the vertical plane passing through the bottom
    bracket axle.'
    lines up with this bit that i mentioned 'and one of the commissaires mentioned that that had fallen away as the current take is that that the overall reach from back of saddle to front of pursuit bars couldn't be more than a certain length in total. So perhaps that's the factor for yourself and Babypuke?'

    Please let me know where you are seeing it differently, so that i can be more clear with my communication?

  4. #29
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    That's clearly what's stated. The bulletin also notes that 2013 regs would be the same as 2012 and this is effective in 2014.

    it doesn't differentiate between road and track, hopefully they will remember to update the track portion of the rulebook. I suggest dropping them and USAC several notes as reminders.
    Just heard back from an official here in SoCal- and this is in fact a correct interpretation of the new rule.. Effective jan 1st 2014

    Best News Ive Had ALL Year!!!!

    just measured my extensions- looks like ill need to lose about 2cm to comply.. but no more saddle swapping!!!
    Last edited by Quinn8it; 12-22-13 at 03:16 PM.

  5. #30
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    I think it's being suggested that the rule can now be interpreted as either/or regarding saddle set back vs. ski extension. I think it's a bit early to make any conclusions on what exactly will go down at bike inspections, so I'm not gonna start celebrating yet.

  6. #31
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
    I think it's being suggested that the rule can now be interpreted as either/or regarding saddle set back vs. ski extension. I think it's a bit early to make any conclusions on what exactly will go down at bike inspections, so I'm not gonna start celebrating yet.
    It's clearly written, not suggested. If some official is an idiot, you need to whip out the rule book and hit them with it.

    This sport can be pretty sorry ass sometimes. I did an omnium this year where they screwed me off the podium because the written race bible and website race bible didn't match. Though that was trivial compared to their enforcement of the center line rule.

    I got relegated for going over the centerline in a field sprint once. The only problem was I soloed in a minute ahead of the field.

    Really, I got an endless supply of bad officiating stories.

  7. #32
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
    I think it's being suggested that the rule can now be interpreted as either/or regarding saddle set back vs. ski extension. I think it's a bit early to make any conclusions on what exactly will go down at bike inspections, so I'm not gonna start celebrating yet.
    As I said- I got conformation from an official that this is happening- sounded pretty cut and dry.

  8. #33
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    Wow. Well this is great news then! Saddle, prepare to be moved forward a whopping 2 cm. In yr face, UCI!

  9. #34
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
    Wow. Well this is great news then! Saddle, prepare to be moved forward a whopping 2 cm. In yr face, UCI!
    For me I had to use a Fizik Ares- that is 4cm shorter than my regal- and I swapped saddles (and post) every time I switched from drops to aero-bars..

    I destroyed my Tiemeyer at the binder bolt from this repeated changing, and it made a carbon frame a friend gave me unusable- because it couldn't take the repeated changing at the carbon post..

  10. #35
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    For me I had to use a Fizik Ares- that is 4cm shorter than my regal- and I swapped saddles (and post) every time I switched from drops to aero-bars..

    I destroyed my Tiemeyer at the binder bolt from this repeated changing, and it made a carbon frame a friend gave me unusable- because it couldn't take the repeated changing at the carbon post..
    Typical sprinter...meat for hands


  11. #36
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Typical sprinter...meat for hands
    Did someone mention meat?



    Seriously. Is there meat around here.


    Just asking...cuz hungry.

  12. #37
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Typical sprinter...meat for hands

    Yes… and my meaty ass makes the seat post slip if i don't give it the power torque!

  13. #38
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    Yes… and my meaty ass makes the seat post slip if i don't give it the power torque!
    This happened to me once during a race. I was wondering why I was having trouble generating power in the seated position. Turns out the seatpost slipped an inch due to not tightening it enough.

    Fun note: at my track (Alpenrose), ~38mph gives you 2G centripetal acceleration. This means for a 200lb guy, you are putting 400lbs (not including lateral or shock loads) on the wheels. That's getting close to a quarter ton.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Fun note: at my track (Alpenrose), ~38mph gives you 2G centripetal acceleration. This means for a 200lb guy, you are putting 400lbs (not including lateral or shock loads) on the wheels. That's getting close to a quarter ton.
    Alpenrose is special - first corner at speed there and my seatpost slipped 2" on a bike that was fine all season at Marymoor.

  15. #40
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slindell View Post
    Alpenrose is special ...
    Is that what we are calling it now?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Is that what we are calling it now?
    It is better than 'riding on the short track'.

  17. #42
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slindell View Post
    It is better than 'riding on the short track'.
    Yea? Well, we call your track a glorified crit course.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  18. #43
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    FWIW Gstien broke his seat post off the other day on a group ride and rode the last 30 minutes standing. On his fixed gear.

    I did half an MTB race like that.

    I've been swapping back and forth on the Dolan. Aluminum seat posts and I had to de-bugger the binder from the factory. Do a big tape wrap where it meats (slid that one in there) the frame. So far, so good.

  19. #44
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Yea? Well, we call your track a glorified crit course.
    so, ah.... potentially both are true?
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Yea? Well, we call your track a glorified crit course.
    Yes - but this does bring up a question:
    Does a shorter/steeper track result in a greater percentage of sprinters or just sprint events?
    It seems like Burnaby and Alpenrose have lots of sprinters, Marymoor more pursuit or mass start. Is this a function of the track or just the races run?

  21. #46
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slindell View Post
    Yes - but this does bring up a question:
    Does a shorter/steeper track result in a greater percentage of sprinters or just sprint events?
    It seems like Burnaby and Alpenrose have lots of sprinters, Marymoor more pursuit or mass start. Is this a function of the track or just the races run?
    Maybe. I've heard from people who've raced up at Marymoor that sprinting is more drag-racey than at Alpenrose. I hope to experience that for myself come next year.

    But more than that, I think it's just the people involved. There is a bike shop in Portland which focuses on track bikes exclusively; they have a team (black and white checkered: Bike Central) that is centered around sprinting. Prior to that team forming up and hosting a weekly sprint tourney, there was not much in the way of a sprint scene apparently. Directly because of this effort, we've had a lot of good sprinters come out of our track.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  22. #47
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    we've had a lot of good sprinters come out of our track.
    Some of them too damn good!

  23. #48
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    Some of them too damn good!

    Tell me about it.

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