Bike Forums

Bike Forums (http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/)
-   -   I love rollers! (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/927448-i-love-rollers.html)

sbs z31 12-26-13 12:17 AM

I love rollers!
 
I've been riding my set of rollers for almost 3mos now and pretty much just today I realized that I need to focus on my pedal stroke. Rode the rollers twice today focusing on even pedal circles/stroke and to my surprise I was able to ride in a straight line longer and with less concentration to not ride off the rollers. Biggest improvements I noticed today was less energy wasted due to more efficient pedaling and not bouncing everywhere and my little guy didn't go numb so quick and was more tolerable lol. Here's a short clip of me doing a quick sprint, I know I need to work on it some more but I was able to hit 40.6mph. Can't believe it took me this long to realized how poor my pedaling technique was.


[video]http://s628.photobucket.com/user/sbs_z31/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20131225_215145_zps8bde1e46.mp4.html[/video]

sbs z31 12-26-13 12:18 AM

Sorry for the link, not sure how to actually embedd the video.

Jaytron 12-26-13 09:32 AM

Rollers are great.

Staying on is pretty difficult for me at higher rpms (170+). Last time I hit 191 I slid off :P Oh well, I'll get it eventually.

Impreza_aL 12-26-13 10:41 AM

i can only max out at 120 rpm. i've used it 3x. it now collects dust.

your bike sure does look comfy.

sbs z31 12-26-13 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impreza_aL (Post 16359629)
i can only max out at 120 rpm. i've used it 3x. it now collects dust.

your bike sure does look comfy.

The bike is a little small for me but its just my commuter and training bike for now, glad Christmas is over now because I can actually start buying parts for my track bike lol. Was on the rollers this morning but the belt snapped on me so I guess its fluid trainer tonight til I get the replacement belt tomorrow.

Quinn8it 12-26-13 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 16359516)
Rollers are great.

Staying on is pretty difficult for me at higher rpms (170+). Last time I hit 191 I slid off :P Oh well, I'll get it eventually.

One tip that helps is to focus on something a few feet in front of the rollers that gives you an indication of the drum center. Mine are lined up in front of a post, some people put a soda can on a chair.. Whatever.

The point is, looking down at the drum to gauge position makes you over correct and unstable... Looking forward keeps you smooth and trains proper gaze/head position for track riding..

Make sure you have something solid to grab when you come off. The reality is, if you do enough high cadence work, and you should, you will come off.. It will happen less and less.. I track well over 100hrs a year on rollers- so I have a dedicated spot for them with a 2x4 hand rail mounted to the wall..

Jaytron 12-26-13 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16359668)
One tip that helps is to focus on something a few feet in front of the rollers that gives you an indication of the drum center. Mine are lined up in front of a post, some people put a soda can on a chair.. Whatever.

The point is, looking down at the drum to gauge position makes you over correct and unstable... Looking forward keeps you smooth and trains proper gaze/head position for track riding..

Make sure you have something solid to grab when you come off. The reality is, if you do enough high cadence work, and you should, you will come off.. It will happen less and less.. I track well over 100hrs a year on rollers- so I have a dedicated spot for them with a 2x4 hand rail mounted to the wall..

Yeah, I set up in my garage and kinda hope I fall towards the wall I'm next to. I've just been looking straight and focusing on a part of the garage door. You're right, looking down definitely screws me up quickly.

Any pictures of your setup?

Quinn8it 12-26-13 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 16359683)
Any pictures of your setup?

Looks like i do- sorry its blurry…

thats my old Tiemeyer… R.I.P. Baby :(
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x...o/IMAG0623.jpg

carleton 12-26-13 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16359128)
I've been riding my set of rollers for almost 3mos now and pretty much just today I realized that I need to focus on my pedal stroke. Rode the rollers twice today focusing on even pedal circles/stroke and to my surprise I was able to ride in a straight line longer and with less concentration to not ride off the rollers. Biggest improvements I noticed today was less energy wasted due to more efficient pedaling and not bouncing everywhere and my little guy didn't go numb so quick and was more tolerable lol. Here's a short clip of me doing a quick sprint, I know I need to work on it some more but I was able to hit 40.6mph. Can't believe it took me this long to realized how poor my pedaling technique was.


[video]http://s628.photobucket.com/user/sbs_z31/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20131225_215145_zps8bde1e46.mp4.html[/video]

Awesome start.

But doing rev-outs won't do much for you other than prove that you won't die going fast on rollers :D

Now get a cadence sensor or a basic computer and do cadence drills.

If you use a basic computer, find a website and put in your wheel , chainring, and cog sizes and determine what speeds match up to 80, 90, 100, 110, 120...200 RPM and write that on a piece of paper and tape it to your top tube.

Create some simple leg speed drills like:

- 1 min at 80 RPM
- 1 min at 110 RPM
- REPEAT 4 more times

That will take exactly 10 minutes...Rest, then do it again and again.

If that is too difficult, take it down to 100RPM until your fitness comes up.

Remember, nothing on the track happens under 110 RPM.

Also, seriously consider getting a bike with a longer top tube. DO NOT BUY ONLINE WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR SIZE FIRST. That's wasting more money. Go to a shop and ask for sizing help.

carleton 12-26-13 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 16359516)
Rollers are great.

Staying on is pretty difficult for me at higher rpms (170+). Last time I hit 191 I slid off :P Oh well, I'll get it eventually.


Verify that the width of the rollers isn't too short. Basically, when the bike is set on the rollers, a vertical line from the axle of front wheel should be about 1CM behind the axle of the front roller. If it is right above or in front of the axle of the front roller, you are subject to jump forward off of them.

If you are too far behind the axle of the front roller, the handling will be wonky. I've found this to be the number 1 culprit when people try and fail rollers when they are just learning them. I once watched as a guy was mystified as to why he could ride rollers like a champ with his road bike and couldn't even stay up using his track bike. The reason was that the rollers were setup for his road bike. The wheel base of the road bike was much longer than the wheel base of the track bike. Once I pointed this out to him and his adjusted the rollers he was riding like a champ again :D

Jaytron 12-26-13 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16359708)
Looks like i do- sorry its blurry…

thats my old Tiemeyer… R.I.P. Baby :(
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x...o/IMAG0623.jpg

Ah, this is so you have something to grab onto, rather than just stabilizing by putting your arm against a flat wall?

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16359744)
Verify that the width of the rollers isn't too short. Basically, when the bike is set on the rollers, a vertical line from the axle of front wheel should be about 1CM behind the axle of the front roller. If it is right above or in front of the axle of the front roller, you are subject to jump forward off of them.

If you are too far behind the axle of the front roller, the handling will be wonky. I've found this to be the number 1 culprit when people try and fail rollers when they are just learning them. I once watched as a guy was mystified as to why he could ride rollers like a champ with his road bike and couldn't even stay up using his track bike. The reason was that the rollers were setup for his road bike. The wheel base of the road bike was much longer than the wheel base of the track bike. Once I pointed this out to him and his adjusted the rollers he was riding like a champ again :D

Yeah, I maybe need to take a look again. They were set up for my Dolan Track Champion, and I now have the DF4.

When I first tried rollers with my track bike, they were set up for an old road bike. I tried to get on them and my bike shot backwards out from under me. Bruised ribs are not the business. :lol:

sbs z31 12-26-13 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16359721)
Awesome start.

But doing rev-outs won't do much for you other than prove that you won't die going fast on rollers :D

Now get a cadence sensor or a basic computer and do cadence drills.

If you use a basic computer, find a website and put in your wheel , chainring, and cog sizes and determine what speeds match up to 80, 90, 100, 110, 120...200 RPM and write that on a piece of paper and tape it to your top tube.

Create some simple leg speed drills like:

- 1 min at 80 RPM
- 1 min at 110 RPM
- REPEAT 4 more times

That will take exactly 10 minutes...Rest, then do it again and again.

If that is too difficult, take it down to 100RPM until your fitness comes up.

Remember, nothing on the track happens under 110 RPM.

Also, seriously consider getting a bike with a longer top tube. DO NOT BUY ONLINE WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR SIZE FIRST. That's wasting more money. Go to a shop and ask for sizing help.

Thanks Carleton, yeah I've been doing pyramid intervals using a cadence calculator to help me stay in a specific cadence in each effort. Im also doing sprint pyramid intervals but that is tough and brutal at the same time lol. Also, I already have the correct frame size just need to save up some more to finish it up.

Quinn8it 12-26-13 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytron (Post 16359759)
Ah, this is so you have something to grab onto, rather than just stabilizing by putting your arm against a flat wall?

Its hard to grab the wall when you are falling away from it

Astrozombie 12-26-13 09:50 PM

Go get um Cavy!

Velocirapture 12-27-13 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16359668)
One tip that helps is to focus on something a few feet in front of the rollers that gives you an indication of the drum center. Mine are lined up in front of a post, some people put a soda can on a chair.. Whatever. .

This definitely works.

Also works against you, so beware talking to someone off to the side (or watching the tv off to the side on a recovery spin) because you could find yourself riding off the roller in that direction.. so i hear... :o

sbs z31 01-18-14 11:29 PM

So I picked up a set of old Minoura 4.5" rollers with a resistance unit this week for $30 and finally got to use them today. Had to adjust the preload on the bearings of the rollers and wheelbase length. It is quite load compare to my newer Minoura 3" rollers but bearable. Had my wife crank up the resistance unit and it sure is nice to have a good amount of resistance for strentgh training but within a few seconds the resistance unit siezed up. Going to take it apart and see what's going on but I actually see a good benifit to the 4.5" rollers. What I noticed right away was I bounce less on the 4.5" rollers than on the 3" rollers at the same cadence which is 120-125rpm. Really loving it so this will be my warm up and easy day set of rollers.

Quinn8it 01-19-14 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16422933)
What I noticed right away was I bounce less on the 4.5" rollers than on the 3" rollers at the same cadence which is 120-125rpm. Really loving it so this will be my warm up and easy day set of rollers.

Likely due to the increased power needed to spin the smaller drums..

Check out Kreitlers wattage chart- not necessarily accurate- but will give you an idea of the differences between 3" and 4" drums.
http://www.mountainracingproducts.co...age_chart1.pdf

for me, putting resistance on your 4.5" rollers is counterintuitive, the whole reason 4.5's are great is because the resistance is lowered and you can focus on your spin..

best option for resistance training is a Turbo Trainer..
i guess second would be 3" rollers with resistance ridden on a road bike- so you can dial in the effort with the gears..

sbs z31 01-19-14 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16422992)
Likely due to the increased power needed to spin the smaller drums..

Check out Kreitlers wattage chart- not necessarily accurate- but will give you an idea of the differences between 3" and 4" drums.
http://www.mountainracingproducts.co...age_chart1.pdf

for me, putting resistance on your 4.5" rollers is counterintuitive, the whole reason 4.5's are great is because the resistance is lowered and you can focus on your spin..

best option for resistance training is a Turbo Trainer..
i guess second would be 3" rollers with resistance ridden on a road bike- so you can dial in the effort with the gears..

Yes a resistance unit on the 3" will be a better option which I'm considering right now. I do have a fluid trainer which I use once a week so my leg strentgh doesn't diminish(if it does).

carleton 01-21-14 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16423002)
Yes a resistance unit on the 3" will be a better option which I'm considering right now. I do have a fluid trainer which I use once a week so my leg strentgh doesn't diminish(if it does).

If you have a fluid trainer, then you shouldn't try to get resistance on your rollers. They train different things separately, and that's OK.

Are you aware of why trackies prefer 4.5" rollers? 4.5" rollers are supposed to feel unloaded (no resistance). The goals when riding them have nothing to do with resistance or strength training. The goals focus on form, leg speed, and neuromuscular adaptations and as a small side effect, aerobic training.

While it is certainly possible to train for racing on one device that feels as close to real world racing as possible (get faster by replicating the event over and over), that's not how most training programs are devised. Most programs (for any sport) focus on disecting the components (legspeed, strength, power, endurance, power-endurance) and training them separately. Then bringing them all together on race day. A famous example:

Component Training:
[video=youtube;3PycZtfns_U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PycZtfns_U[/video]
[video=youtube;__qOY9hcm64]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__qOY9hcm64[/video]

Bringing it all together:
[video=youtube;Bg21M2zwG9Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg21M2zwG9Q[/video]


I wrote all of that to say that I don't think 3" would be the better option. I'd go for 4.5" and the fluid trainer.

sbs z31 01-21-14 12:40 PM

Haha thanks Carleton, I did fix the resistance unit but decided to just leave it off. I really do like the 4.5" rollers more than the 3" rollers. Question, how often would you recommend a noob racer use the fluid trainer? Once a week? Twice a week?

carleton 01-21-14 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16429004)
Question, how often would you recommend a noob racer use the fluid trainer? Once a week? Twice a week?

This is a question about creating a training program for you. This is difficult to answer. The answer depends on:

- Your current level of training
- Your goals
- The events you want to race (sprint, endurance, omnium)
- How long till the race season

So, I'll refrain from telling you what exactly to do. But, understand that for all novice athletes:

- Doing Anything is better than Doing Nothing
- Doing Anything regularly will make you faster

And the golden rule for training new athletes: Race Lots, because if you don't have a coach or a training program, racing is the best training.

My first season, I raced every week of DLV's 6 month season. When I progressed, I raced Tuesday with the Masters and Wednesday with the regular group, plus Friday time trials and sprints and weekend training sessions. I can honestly say that I was at the track as much as (or more than) anyone else.

Mix Strength, Power, and Endurance in to your workouts (either in the same workout or separate workouts for each). You should create some sort of metric to record your progress and then set goals accordingly.

Try to find a club and you guys can share training tips and information. Even if that club is a virtual one. I have good friends who coach race on the same level (and are faster than me) who I trade info, tips, and progress with on a personal level. I kinda don't want to spill *all* of my info onto the internets :D

sbs z31 01-21-14 01:30 PM

Thanks Carleton, I'm focusing on road TT at the moment as I have not done track yet but for sure going to be picking queerpunk's brain when I'm at the track this year. Been riding the rollers since October and doing intervals since then. Just started sprints intervals on the trainer about a month ago and will keep training, not sure if I'm approaching this at the right angle.

sbs z31 02-15-14 09:42 PM

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/u...psa294eb1d.jpg

For some reason I can't seem to embed the video but just click on the picture to watch the short clip of me and the new bike on the rollers. I'm getting a pro fit on the 24th of this month but would like you guy's opinion on my diy fit also.

carleton 02-16-14 12:56 AM

I hate to say this man, but this new bike is also too small for you...even for TT setup.

You should get a proper bike fitting.

Just trying to help.

Baby Puke 02-19-14 01:47 PM

I would second what Carleton said about investing in a pro fit.

But as a starting point, it appears that you are very far forward, and your shoulders and head are very high. I would imagine the bike is pretty hard to control (especially on aero bars) as a good majority of your weight is gonna be on the front wheel. It should be more balanced front to back. Maybe try putting a normal saddle on it and starting at tip 5cm back from the BB? And perhaps flip that stem upside-down. It would help to see you on drop bars. And a less baggy jersey so we can see your body position better.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:20 AM.