gtrob

Low bar feels a bit awkward to me, like the weight it behind me more than on me so feels like I have less control, so prefer a higher placement. Not on the neck like I see some. This is one of the 80/20 things in my mind, where squatting at all is going to get you 80% of the result.

VanceMac

Agreed...but I'd say 96.5%.

rensho3

I've done both high bar and low bar through the years. I prefer low bar. I just feel that when things get heavy, I am more at one with the weight.

McRussellPants

I'm way more comfortable low bar, if I give myself half a chance I'll shift my weight to my toes and low bar helps keep me on my heels. noob life.

I followed the Starting Strength program for a few months. Worked ok I guess. Between bad form/shoe changes/riding too much I hurt my knees. I'm 90% sure it was from letting my knees buckle in, I was paying so much attention to weight on the heels/knee front to back position I didn't pay attention to the in/out position. At any rate I met with a physical therapist, she told me I was dumb, told me how to fix it and that I was fine. I spent a week off of them completely and then a week in Colorado skiing and they felt way better

Worked from a 115ish to a 205lb 3 rep squat before I figured all this out. Deloaded and I've worked back up to 185 x 5. feels good now.

So From the end of cross season to now I've gone
Squat 95 to 185 x 5
DL 175 to 275 x 5
Bench 75 to 135 x 5

I traded bar OHP for dumbell OHP but I'm basically doing Stronglifts 5x5 with a 20 minute or so ride to the gym and some box jumps to warm up. Dropped my diet from cross season around xmas. Eating a lot of garbage and getting some garbage gains. I'll have to deal with that soon... But pizza...

carleton

+1

Lowering the weight and feeling that control and "owning" the weight feels really good.

If you feel really good and strong one day, instead of adding more weight than prescribed, simply add a little speed and power through the middle part of the rep. Enough to make you grunt, but not nearly enough to cause you to lose control of the bar.

For everyone else:

If you are in the USA and you've been lifting since the fall, you should be hitting close to your PBs now. Stay within yourself. I know that chasing bigger and bigger max squat numbers is enticing, but a new max squat number is not necessary to stimulate growth and super-compensation.

We don't get a time bonus for our 1-rep max squat numbers

5 reps is high enough to be manageable and safe and low enough to be strenuous enough stimulate.

In terms of weightlifting, most of us in this thread are beginners (myself included)...even if we have lifted for several years. Cooking bacon and eggs for 30 years doesn't mean you have 30 years of experience as a chef Only for intermediate and advanced athletes and after months of gains, resets, and stalling out, might a 1 or 2 rep max be needed to break though stalled progress.

queerpunk

here's my situation - i'd be interested to see how the more experienced folks react to this. the background is that i have an ambitious winter training schedule. i'm good at scheduling rest so i don't think i'm digging myself too deep. but i'm doing a lot of on-the-bike stuff. some actual outdoor rides, and indoor rides sticking to a good schedule that includes some hard workouts and some easy workouts.

when it started to pick up, it got pretty obvious pretty fast that doing 3-4 bike workouts per week plus 3 days of lifting per week was just too much. i started dropping lifting days. but even doing that, i realized that if i wanted to do power or threshold intervals, it was hard - downright impossible - to be fresh enough to keep squatting. on the bike stuff is more important - so i'm down to 1 day/week of lifting - modest squats, and deadlifting. and though i hit a ceiling with my squats this winter, i haven't hit a ceiling with my deadlift. it keeps going up. PBs every week! uncharted territory for me! even though my squat is basically in the pooper.

anyway, i'm pulling back to 1 day/week of lifting, and adding 1 day/week of power-oriented bodyweight plyometrics. the plan is to keep lifting 1x/week into the season to maintain my strength through some important build phases.

gtrob

Squats and riding use far too much the same mechanics to be able to hold a solid week of both. Im in the same boat right now, 3-4 hard days on the bike where I feel fantastic/fast/superman, but anything more than 2 days in the gym throws it overboard. I can sneak in a gym session right before a ride but the next day MUST be a recovery.

I dont think there is a perfect recipe week in and week out. I think the best way to manage it is to simply listen to your body. If a session felt like trash it probably was trash. Don't be afraid to pull the plug 20mins in sometimes. You probably can already predict what combination of workouts put you into a place that requires a day off, so try to aim for those leading into rest days.

queerpunk

OK, it's good to hear from someone else that the combined load is probably too much. I definitely stuck to a more rigorous lifting schedule last year - but I had a much less ambitious riding schedule.

As much as I'd like to keep making weight gains, having a rest day prior, and an easy couple of days before that - that's just too much time spent not making gains on the bike for me.

carleton

You have to pick one.

Most cycling programs don't take into account lifting in a gym. Most gym programs don't take into account road riding. So, when the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, you are in for trouble.

To get the most gains, you have to lift legs heavy 3x a week with adequate rest in-between. Sprinters will do Active Recovery on the bike. Then when the season starts, a lot of sprinters will drop one lifting day for a hard race day.

If you are lifting heavy 2 days a week, don't expect gains. If you are lifting heavy 1 day a week, expect to lose gains.

gtrob

I think that depends where you are in your progression though. If you have been lifting for a decade then it probably takes 3 times a week to keep moving forward. I think a lot of new lifters (Weak lifters) will still benefit a lot from even 1 day a week, and 2 times a week with 3 hard riding days (not Z2 social rides but 40-80min drills) is a good balance for most that can get the rest in. Depends on goals of course.

Key word is balance though. 3 days a week of heavy lifting is going to leave maybe 1 strong day on the bike. You might ride more than that, but I doubt more than once a week is any great.

Quinn8it

not my experience

VanceMac

Not mine either (and I'm old and frail). Of course, it's all relative... but the last couple years have completely changed my impression of what the body is capable of doing and adapting to.

rensho3

Not my experience either. I'm 65 and doing 3 times a week in the gym with two hard track days. Every two or three weeks I do have to take an extra recovery day, and I stick to a 6 week training block with week 7 a recovery week. I still lift the same, I just cut back on the bike volume.

Buffalo Buff

Started getting back in the gym 6 months ago. Missed it. Forgot how much fun it was.

Stas87

How do you guys feel about dumbbell lifting at home instead of barbells in gym? I don't have space in my apt for a barbells and such

A bit of background FWIW, I race both road and track. Road season starts in a few weeks up in the northeast and track doesn't get start till late April. Typically I live in the gym from September till December, once January hits I start hitting the intervals hard with workouts on the track bike sprinkled in. Gym is primarily maintenance during racing season. A good set of dumbbells is clearly more economical than a monthly gym membership, but my concern is whether I can get equivalent workouts with dumbbells as opposed to barbells and equipment in the gym.

carleton

Dumbbells will definitely work.

Remember, weight training is literally training in order to get ready to train on the bike. It's really far up stream from actual racing.

I know people who don't lift at all and do 100% bike work. I also know people who lift 90% of the time and minimal bike work. You can make it work for sure.

Quinn8it

What lifts are you planning to do with dumbbells?

Typically cyclist are doing Squats (or a sub/variation like leg press)and Deadlifts-
the typical weight range for either of these to be effective would be bodyweight to double bodyweight...

Thats going to to take some pretty big dumbells..

Keep the gym membership

gtrob

How do I know when and how much weight to add in work outs? Im still very new in the gym, so still finding a routine. I also am riding quite a lot so the gym is supplementary and the last thing I want to do is hurt myself. I rather play it safe and have slow progress.

Very generic but if you lift 3 times/week, do you try to add weight once a week? Or once the reps/sets become 'easy'? Im talking to the sub 6 month training here, not the lifting for years level.

carleton

Starting Strength has a good program for progression.

The first 2 weeks is used to just get your body used to the movements and the routine of lifting regularly. That's the "transition" phase.

After that, you should schedule to add about 10lbs or so to your target squat for the day every session. Some days you'll try the +10lbs and you'll feel stronger, so maybe add another 5.

Basically, you'll gain a perception of what you can and cannot handle. It's subjective.

Some days, you'll feel weak (lack of rest, lack of food, etc...) and you know the second you lift the bar off the rack for your working set of the day. That's totally OK. Just put the weight down. Step back, take a break, remove like 20% and go back at it. You aren't losing fitness when you do that. You'll bounce back and come back stronger. This is called a "reset".

The book covers all of this.

There are other books/websites/programs that cover this. Starting Strength isn't the only one or the best one. It's just an easy reference.

misterwaterfall

Dumbbells: They are useful, but you'll be missing the big compound lifts. My coach has me do a circuit workout with front/back/side/walking lunges, box squats with minimal weight, turkish get ups, and some core. At the end of the non stop hour my whole body is trashed. This is more more an enduro, which is sounds like you are. I also do gym days with squats, DL's, SLDL's ect, so both are useful.

sgtdirt

been doing a 10x10 routine for the last month or so. 10 sets of 10 reps. i do this only for the big movements i.e squats, bench, curls, shoulder press...
the other two exercises per muscle group get the usual 4 sets of 8 to 10 reps.

up to 185 for squats. going to go for 200lbs. tomorrow.

Quinn8it

Holy Hypertrophy Sarge!!

sgtdirt

yeah, lots of reps.
upping the weight worked out....ok. after a warm up (45 min. spin class), i threw on 185 for two sets then 8 sets of ten with 200. after that, thighs were spent. got in some leg curls and called it a day.

i don't know if this workout helped any. i went for my first outdoor ride of the season and legs were a sluggish. they felt strong but didn't have much juice. ah, it's the first ride. i can only get better.

mcafiero

Per this interview, I started playing with 5x5 at 80% and I have to say, I like it. Strength and power is starting to go up after 4 weeks of it. Pavel Tsatsouline on the Science of Strength and the Art of Physical Performance | The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

Here's my dilemma: Programming.

I'm doing Front Squats on Monday, Deads on Wed. Back Squats on Fridays. I wish I could do all three, same day, and just do that every three days. But I don't feel like I'm getting the most out of lifts when I do them all on the same day. If I start with back squats, my deads suffer and then the fronts are borderline worthless. Change up the order and same result, but different order.

Tips?

Quinn8it

Do Texas method...

5x5 squats on monday
sub 3x3 front squats on Wednesday
1x5 squat and 1x5 dead lift on Friday..