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  1. #51
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Good to see others lift:
    PRs:
    Dead 575 (straps), squat 550 double... Hammer strength V-squat 819

    I'm coming off / accommodating old injuries aggravated by 10x10. Slow recovery primarily to to my dumb-assedness...

    Last 2 lifts:
    Sunday
    back in my gym!

    ~10 minutes row machine
    ~10 on spin bike (ouch)
    hspl rows
    3x10x360
    hspl decline
    5x5x450
    hspl shrug
    5x5x450
    hspl incline bench
    5x5x270
    cable curl/press downs
    5x2x10x50
    hspl pullovers
    5x5x360
    ~22 minutes recumbent bike hills level 10...

    Thursday lunch lift
    recovering from nasty sinus infection...

    DL
    3,2,1x315
    2,1x495
    500
    550, bad miss, barely broke the floor
    500
    hspl v-squat
    3,2,1x270
    2,1x360
    2,1x450
    2x2x540
    felt good...
    wow.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    wow.
    Ditto!
    Whats ur body weight?

  3. #53
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    wow.
    No kidding. Okay, I'm out.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  4. #54
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    Wow indeed. How similar is the V-Squat to a regular LBBS?

    -TC

  5. #55
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 View Post
    hey man.
    good luck with the cut.

    I only had to drop 5ish pounds of water to compete in the 165s. My lifts aren't good enough to worry about dropping an additional class.

    have fun at the meet!
    ok.. Made Weight!
    First of December I was 205lbs. Decided to try to compete in the 181's on jan11th..
    Dropped 13-14lbs with keto-paleo and was sitting at 191.5 a week ago..

    Standard water manipulation cut this week... I was 191.5 at 4pm yesterday, weighed in at 180.6 at 4pm today (yes I overshot the weight limit by a pound)
    as of 6pm tonight I was back to 191...

    This was basically a test.. I doubt I'll put up PR numbers tomorrow... Hoping for at least a PR Wilks score..

  6. #56
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Lifting 3x/week has made for some nice gains, as it does for every novice. As I'm ramping up intensity on the bike, though, it feels like the overall fatigue is starting to take its toll. I'm really enjoying it, and don't want to cut back, but 2x/week might be the best compromise if I want to get two quality bike workouts in each weekend.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    Lifting 3x/week has made for some nice gains, as it does for every novice. As I'm ramping up intensity on the bike, though, it feels like the overall fatigue is starting to take its toll. I'm really enjoying it, and don't want to cut back, but 2x/week might be the best compromise if I want to get two quality bike workouts in each weekend.
    I know exactly what you mean. I followed the SS program for about 5 months (not my first time in the weight room, either), and got to the point where I was only adding 5lbs a week- every 3 workouts. Even with that, I was having some rough times with it. I also was having pretty poor performances on the bike- I think because I was constantly fatigued. I recently cut to 2x/wk in the gym. Since, I have felt way less tired. Fresher both on the bike and in the gym. So far, I've been able to add the 5lbs per workout (10lbs per week). Time will tell how maintainable this is.

    -TC

  8. #58
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    My gym day usually looks like this and I do this every Tues and Fri (with the weight uses as of my last gym day):

    High Bar Back Squats: Sets of 8x245 , 6x275, 4x335, 2x365, 8x275

    Dead Lift: Sets of 8x315; 6x385; 4x435; 2x465; 8x385

    Front Squat, easy weight: Sets of 8x135; 6x165; 4x195; 2x225 I don't know what it is about front squats, but I hate them.

    If I'm feeling awesome (usually by this time I'm spent) I'll finish it off with weighted step-ups. Those are a B!tch

    Next week I may try adding box jumps to my back squats for supersets.

    1 Rep Max Back Squat is 400, but it's been a while. Hope it's up.

    1 Rep Max Dead Lift is 515, been a while for that, too. Would like to get 535

    I hate 1 Rep Max efforts. But it's good to have a benchmark I guess.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
    I have a grande hairy chest and I am of Italian descent.
    2010 Cannondale Supersix
    2011 Dolan DF3

  9. #59
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    Lifting 3x/week has made for some nice gains, as it does for every novice. As I'm ramping up intensity on the bike, though, it feels like the overall fatigue is starting to take its toll. I'm really enjoying it, and don't want to cut back, but 2x/week might be the best compromise if I want to get two quality bike workouts in each weekend.
    I would say that for anyone who is not a pure sprinter- 2 days of lifting is plenty for most of the season. A block of lifting 3 days a week is great for maximizing strength gains during a period when bike work is not so intense (like during "base") and is likely the best way to get yourself strong before dropping gym days and going into slower gains or strength maintenance.. how long that block lasts could vary- maybe 4-6 weeks or 4-6 months…

    as for the pure sprinters- IMHO if you are not at the level of say Sub-12" 200m or Sub 1:12 Kilo, your time is probably better spent developing on bike strength than it is on a 3rd gym day.. also- there are plenty of sprinters these days who don't lift at all.. I'm not saying its a requirement..

    when cyclist begin a strength program- there is an adaption phase where they have to get used to the stress of the weight work and how it effects them on the bike. this can seam brutal at first- but if you push through you do adapt to the stress.. in my opinion- once you have gotten through that initial adaption, you should drop the 3rd gym day as soon as the fatigue starts to affect the quality of your bike workouts..

  10. #60
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    when cyclist begin a strength program- there is an adaption phase where they have to get used to the stress of the weight work and how it effects them on the bike. this can seam brutal at first- but if you push through you do adapt to the stress.. in my opinion- once you have gotten through that initial adaption, you should drop the 3rd gym day as soon as the fatigue starts to affect the quality of your bike workouts..
    Can you elaborate on this, in particular, your second sentence about pushing through and adapting to the stress of weightlifting?
    It's my first year of weightlifting, and I'm moving from a couple months of hypertrophy-esque focus on form to 5x5 strength-building work, so I'm always trying to glean more info about what I can anticipate. I'm also not spending a lot of time on the bike, it being winter in Minnesota and all. 3-4 hrs/week indoors...
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  11. #61
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    Can you elaborate on this, in particular, your second sentence about pushing through and adapting to the stress of weightlifting?
    It's my first year of weightlifting, and I'm moving from a couple months of hypertrophy-esque focus on form to 5x5 strength-building work, so I'm always trying to glean more info about what I can anticipate. I'm also not spending a lot of time on the bike, it being winter in Minnesota and all. 3-4 hrs/week indoors...
    You may feel rather crappy for a few weeks. 5x5 ran me into the ground pretty hard after about 7-8 weeks of my first cycle. My hips were beat to hell, my lower back got pumped quickly, right knee hurt, shoulders got a bit sore, etc.
    Eat well, rest well, and keep up as long as you can.

    If you aren't riding a ton right now, you should do alright.

  12. #62
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    Can you elaborate on this, in particular, your second sentence about pushing through and adapting to the stress of weightlifting?
    It's my first year of weightlifting, and I'm moving from a couple months of hypertrophy-esque focus on form to 5x5 strength-building work, so I'm always trying to glean more info about what I can anticipate. I'm also not spending a lot of time on the bike, it being winter in Minnesota and all. 3-4 hrs/week indoors...
    Bmontgomery sort of covered it.. but ill get into it a bit more..

    first off- drop the 5x5!
    5x5 is a great way for a novice lifter, especially one not genetically pre-disposed to strength gains (yes- you Enduros!) to get some volume early in a strength progrm, without the weight progressing so fast as it does in a 3x5 program with linear progression (adding weight every workout, across all sets)

    I currently do 1 day of 5x5 as part of The Texas Method (intermediate program) and i can tell you that a properly executed 5x5 at a heavy weight is a Mother Facker!

    so- id switch to 3x5...

    as for the adaption. There is a period early in weight training, especially when combined with cycling, where the fatigue seams too much. If you can ride through this phase, you will likely adapt and find 2 things: first- you will not feel nearly as worked after a while as you did.. you just get better at recovering from weights, and they affect the bike less.. second- you will find that even on the days that you feel really fatigued, you dont lose much performance.. i was assured by my coach this was the case- and sure enough he was right..
    to me- that is one of the great mental aspects of weights that makes you- the lifter- So Fricking Awesome- the knowledge that you crush no matter how you feel.

    one last piece of this puzzle is how critical roller work is for the lifting cyclist.. it helps adapt the lifting into bike strength.. and it helps with recovery. try it- youll like it

  13. #63
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    Ditto!
    Whats ur body weight?
    Currently 265...
    Hell on down hills!
    but also hell on equipment.

    About to start training for a 200k 4/12... I'm cool with the distance, it's the 6800 feet of climb.

    HSPL (Hammer Strength Plate loaded)
    V-squat Hammer Strengths squat machine. It has a yoke with a back board. Sort of loads the weight half way between a back and front squat.

    I don't have access to a cage, just one of those racks with safety bars. I didn't feel comfortable going over 550 free.

    Also I use straps over 315 on deads. I have a lot of bunch scar tissue in the forearms from a motorcycle crash, nothing that shows, but the ligaments/tendons aren't what they should be.

  14. #64
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    My gym day usually looks like this and I do this every Tues and Fri (with the weight uses as of my last gym day):

    High Bar Back Squats: Sets of 8x245 , 6x275, 4x335, 2x365, 8x275

    Dead Lift: Sets of 8x315; 6x385; 4x435; 2x465; 8x385

    Front Squat, easy weight: Sets of 8x135; 6x165; 4x195; 2x225 I don't know what it is about front squats, but I hate them.

    If I'm feeling awesome (usually by this time I'm spent) I'll finish it off with weighted step-ups. Those are a B!tch

    Next week I may try adding box jumps to my back squats for supersets.

    1 Rep Max Back Squat is 400, but it's been a while. Hope it's up.

    1 Rep Max Dead Lift is 515, been a while for that, too. Would like to get 535

    I hate 1 Rep Max efforts. But it's good to have a benchmark I guess.

    DAMN NICE!
    Front squats are rough, great for the quads!

  15. #65
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcafiero View Post
    My gym day usually looks like this and I do this every Tues and Fri (with the weight uses as of my last gym day):

    High Bar Back Squats: Sets of 8x245 , 6x275, 4x335, 2x365, 8x275

    Dead Lift: Sets of 8x315; 6x385; 4x435; 2x465; 8x385

    Front Squat, easy weight: Sets of 8x135; 6x165; 4x195; 2x225 I don't know what it is about front squats, but I hate them.

    If I'm feeling awesome (usually by this time I'm spent) I'll finish it off with weighted step-ups. Those are a B!tch

    Next week I may try adding box jumps to my back squats for supersets.

    1 Rep Max Back Squat is 400, but it's been a while. Hope it's up.

    1 Rep Max Dead Lift is 515, been a while for that, too. Would like to get 535

    I hate 1 Rep Max efforts. But it's good to have a benchmark I guess.


    Tell us about your programming. Are you lifting to lift or are you setting yourself up for the race season? It doesn't matter either way. I can totally understand if you are lifting to lift being that the race season in Colorado is so short and you may have other activities/goals than track racing.

  16. #66
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    thanks bmont and quinn.

    quinn, when you say linear progression, i assume you mean that each set, the weight goes up, and each workout, you start (and end) on a greater weight than previously. that correct?

    and should the jumps be significant, to end on a near-max-capacity weight? or should they be smaller increases, clustered closer to the top of one's capacity?

    i also assume that regardless, that's done after a lower-weight warmup, yeah?

    i actually haven't felt much fatigue, but i haven't done much riding yet. after lifting saturday morning, though, i went on a two hour ride with a pal. wet, cold, gritty, and headwinds. it was pretty miserable and we were both pretty fried afterward. but that was definitely a combination of factors.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  17. #67
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    thanks bmont and quinn.

    quinn, when you say linear progression, i assume you mean that each set, the weight goes up, and each workout, you start (and end) on a greater weight than previously. that correct?

    and should the jumps be significant, to end on a near-max-capacity weight? or should they be smaller increases, clustered closer to the top of one's capacity?

    i also assume that regardless, that's done after a lower-weight warmup, yeah?

    i actually haven't felt much fatigue, but i haven't done much riding yet. after lifting saturday morning, though, i went on a two hour ride with a pal. wet, cold, gritty, and headwinds. it was pretty miserable and we were both pretty fried afterward. but that was definitely a combination of factors.
    Read Starting Strength. It's not a long book. It's available via Amazon Kindle, too.

    Linear Progression:

    Let's take the Squat for this example. There are "warmup sets" and "working sets". The working sets are the goal for the day. So, let's say that my working weight (or Target weight) for the day is 215lbs. A normal workout would look like this:

    MONDAY (Target Weight = 215#):
    1 x 5 x BAR (1 set of 5 reps of just the bar on my shoulders)
    1 x 5 x BAR
    1 x 5 x (40% * 215#)
    1 x 3 x (60% * 215#)
    1 x 2 x (80% * 215#)
    3 x 5 x 215#

    (then you'd do other exercises)

    And the rest of the week would look like this:

    WEDNESDAY (Target Weight = 230#):
    1 x 5 x BAR (1 set of 5 reps of just the bar on my shoulders)
    1 x 5 x BAR
    1 x 5 x (40% * 230#)
    1 x 3 x (60% * 230#)
    1 x 2 x (80% * 230#)
    3 x 5 x 230#

    FRIDAY (Target Weight = 240#):
    1 x 5 x BAR (1 set of 5 reps of just the bar on my shoulders)
    1 x 5 x BAR
    1 x 5 x (40% * 240#)
    1 x 3 x (60% * 240#)
    1 x 2 x (80% * 240#)
    3 x 5 x 240#

    So, the linear in "Linear Progression" is the 215 to 230 to 240. When you plot your progress, it will be generally linear for most beginners.

    I went from squatting 95# to 345# linearly in 4 months (October 2009 - January 2010), with a handful of resets. A "reset" is when you fail a target lift by either dropping the weight, not completing all 3 sets, or not getting the bar off the rack. There are a few ways to deal with the failure...but those are discussed in the book.

    You should read the book. Seriously. It will answer questions that you don't even know to ask yet. The book can get wordy where he explains a lot of the "Why". But, just read the "What" and read the "Why" when you need more info.
    Last edited by carleton; 01-14-14 at 01:40 AM.

  18. #68
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Thanks! Just ordered it.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  19. #69
    Senior Member TrackMonkey7's Avatar
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    Great thread so far, though it is a bit sprinter oriented, of course. Though I wish I could be a big powerful sprinter, I simply don't have the build for it, nor do I live close enough to a track to justify the training, and I like my cyclocross a bit too much. So I'm more of an enduro wondering what other enduros do for lifting both during the off season, and race season.

    A bit of background on myself: I started lifting years ago and 5x5 was my first strength training program. As I started to do more road rides, I would take sets off the 5x5 program until I was basically doing Starting Strength. A year or two ago I bought the book and followed the program to the letter during my offseason. Eventually, I ran out of time and gains and had to cut back on lifting volume to continue progressing on the bike. Last year I decided I would focus I good deal of my efforts on weight training, hoping to carry as much strength into the race season. I bought Practical Programming and started doing the Texas Method, having exhausted my newbie gains. The program really wrung me out and left little in my tank for bike work, plus I felt less fit for this past season than I thought I would be. As this past race ended, and I stopped lifting altogether due to a busy school schedule, I found myself to be much much fresher on the bike and in some instances, faster.

    So I'm curious what kind of weight training other enduros do. I definitely feel some benefit from it, but not enough to devote several months of time to an intermediate program. Ultimately, I'd like to see myself going to the gym twice a week now, and maybe once a week during the race season, with a few breaks in between. I think the lifts I should focus the most on are the squat and deadlift, with a few assistance exercises for balance. I've just no idea how to program them. Does anyone have any thoughts?

  20. #70
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    Thanks! Just ordered it.
    If you want to PM me your email address I have a few other e-books you may enjoy.

    5x5 (I ran the Madcow's template) worked well for me when I wasn't riding. i If you're new to training definitely go with starting strength, or some type of linear programming. The gains come easy at first but it definitely becomes to hard to sustain the linear gains after a while.
    I transitioned to 5/3/1 and had a lot of progress with that.

    Once you're familiar with your lifts, recovery, strength, etc you can train a bit more intuitively, but when starting out it's very nice to have a solid program written out to follow.

  21. #71
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Finally hit a post weight loss deadlift PR yesterday. Only 445, but it's coming back up nicely.

    I pulled 505 last spring when I weighed 190. Now I'm down to 160 or so and I lost a ton of strength.

  22. #72
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Tell us about your programming. Are you lifting to lift or are you setting yourself up for the race season? It doesn't matter either way. I can totally understand if you are lifting to lift being that the race season in Colorado is so short and you may have other activities/goals than track racing.
    Gearing up for race season. Currently I'm in a strength building phase, coming off of a hypertrophy phase. That's just 2x per week. Other days are on the bike.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
    I have a grande hairy chest and I am of Italian descent.
    2010 Cannondale Supersix
    2011 Dolan DF3

  23. #73
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    ...I know, Carleton, I'm totally doing it wrong. Haha
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
    I have a grande hairy chest and I am of Italian descent.
    2010 Cannondale Supersix
    2011 Dolan DF3

  24. #74
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackMonkey7 View Post
    Great thread so far, though it is a bit sprinter oriented, of course.
    Yes- we tend to be big and loud- and dominate most conversations… we can't help it

    Quote Originally Posted by TrackMonkey7 View Post
    So I'm curious what kind of weight training other enduros do. I definitely feel some benefit from it, but not enough to devote several months of time to an intermediate program. Ultimately, I'd like to see myself going to the gym twice a week now, and maybe once a week during the race season, with a few breaks in between. I think the lifts I should focus the most on are the squat and deadlift, with a few assistance exercises for balance. I've just no idea how to program them. Does anyone have any thoughts?
    Yes- This^^^
    as an athlete who is likely not genetically highly pre-disposed to big strength gains (unlike us fat sprinters) the best plan is to do a block of weight training 3x a week, probably when bike intensity is down (during base). You will make your biggest strength gains in that block.. as bike intensity rises- drop to 2 days.. you will still be able to make gym progress, but it will slow.. then in race season(or before) cut to 1 day a week for strength maintenance… cut weights entirely when you taper for "A" races..

    IMHO-
    the beginner program in starting strength is perfect for this..
    *when you are lifting 3x a week do the normal alternating A/B day- even include the Bench and Press..
    *when you cut to 2x a week, just do an A and a B- and most cyclist drop the bench and probably the press as well, even though it does have some benefits for cyclist..
    *When you cut to 1x a week, you can potentially alternate Power Clean and Dead Lift every other week.. to keep fatigue down..

  25. #75
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 View Post
    Finally hit a post weight loss deadlift PR yesterday. Only 445, but it's coming back up nicely.

    I pulled 505 last spring when I weighed 190. Now I'm down to 160 or so and I lost a ton of strength.
    NICE! congrats!

    Lifting weights is Mass Dependent.. as the big boys in powerlifting say "Mass Moves Mass"…

    i just dropped some weight- and i found that the Dead is probably even more mass dependent than my squat.. as my squat numbers have stayed pretty much the same.. dead is down..

    also- from a percentage standpoint- lifting 445lb at 160 is bigger than lifting 505 at 190.. so strength to weight is up.. and you are within striking distance of a triple bodyweight Dead.. which is SOLID!!!

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