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Old 01-14-14, 01:54 PM   #76
Quinn8it
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...I know, Carleton, I'm totally doing it wrong. Haha
I don't want to speak for Carleton…

but what i think he is saying is:
the program you outlined above is not optimized for getting the biggest strength gains from the least amount of gym time.. which is basically the biggest priority for strength dependent athletes..

also- there is pretty strong evidence that "Hypertrophy" work adds very little to strength work that follows it.. by its nature- hypertrophy makes you big, which is not conducive to losing weight or riding a bike fast.. Most of the programming that involves a Hypertrophy phase followed by a Strength phase was designed for football players who need to be Big and Strong…
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Old 01-14-14, 02:16 PM   #77
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NICE! congrats!

Lifting weights is Mass Dependent.. as the big boys in powerlifting say "Mass Moves Mass"…

i just dropped some weight- and i found that the Dead is probably even more mass dependent than my squat.. as my squat numbers have stayed pretty much the same.. dead is down..

also- from a percentage standpoint- lifting 445lb at 160 is bigger than lifting 505 at 190.. so strength to weight is up.. and you are within striking distance of a triple bodyweight Dead.. which is SOLID!!!

Very true. My squats always went really well when I was fairly bloated honestly. so both of those took a pretty good hit.

Hoping to get back up to that 505 area while keeping my weight low enough to be in the 165 class. I'd like to get back on the platform next year if time/money allow it.


how did your meet go? put up a decent total?
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Old 01-14-14, 08:16 PM   #78
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how did your meet go? put up a decent total?
The meet was awesome! I was really happy.

I competed in the 181lb weight class
the numbers:
Squat:473lbs PR (U.S.P.A. Masters American Record)
Bench:248lbs
Dead Lift:507lbs (U.S.P.A. Masters American Record)

Total:1228lbs
Wilks: 375 (PR)

I got greedy on the dead- confident i could of done 525lbs, but 540 would of given me the American record for total.. I pulled it to just over my knees.. next time!

Last edited by Quinn8it; 01-14-14 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 01-14-14, 09:03 PM   #79
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The meet was awesome! I was really happy.

I competed in the 181lb weight class
the numbers:
Squat:473lbs PR (U.S.P.A. Masters American Record)
Bench:248lbs
Dead Lift:507lbs (U.S.P.A. Masters American Record)

Total:1228lbs
Wilks: 375 (PR)

I got greedy on the dead- confident i could of done 525lbs, but 540 would of given me the American record for total.. I pulled it to just over my knees.. next time!
Amazing! Congrats!
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Old 01-14-14, 11:48 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
The meet was awesome! I was really happy.

I competed in the 181lb weight class
the numbers:
Squat:473lbs PR (U.S.P.A. Masters American Record)
Bench:248lbs
Dead Lift:507lbs (U.S.P.A. Masters American Record)

Total:1228lbs
Wilks: 375 (PR)

I got greedy on the dead- confident i could of done 525lbs, but 540 would of given me the American record for total.. I pulled it to just over my knees.. next time!
Holy crap, nice going Quinn!
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Old 01-15-14, 02:05 AM   #81
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Holy crap, nice going Quinn!
Echo that...

Amazement at the serious numbers at decent body weights!
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Old 01-15-14, 05:46 AM   #82
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Though I wish I could be a big powerful sprinter, I simply don't have the build for it, nor do I live close enough to a track to justify the training, and I like my cyclocross a bit too much. So I'm more of an enduro wondering what other enduros do for lifting both during the off season, and race season.
Given most busy enduros don't find enough time to fit in riding, I would personally put on bike work way before any weights. What is your current available time per week to train / training comprise of? First training other than riding I'd be doing would be running for CX.

I have been considering weights lately, but would be only upper body for general wellbeing. As a Masters athlete it would be only to slow the loss of muscle mass as I age.
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Old 01-15-14, 07:17 AM   #83
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nice work on the meet quinn.

those are some strong squat numbers for a 181.

ps. and I just realized you said masters...... all of those numbers are damn strong.

if you don't mind me asking, how old are ya?
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Old 01-15-14, 08:40 AM   #84
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Given most busy enduros don't find enough time to fit in riding, I would personally put on bike work way before any weights.
In addition... As with many questions about training, I think the answer starts with "it depends."

From my enduro-POV: I'm lifting (focusing on squats) 3x/week through the winter. I'm not putting bikework for a few reasons. One is that I live in Minnesota, so riding outdoors is balls, and because I find a trainer ride to be only slightly more enjoyable than a colonoscopy (No endurance or much volume to speak of for me; I do SST and V02max workouts that all wind up approximating a half-hour long points race or madison). Secondly, my limiter is 30-60-second power: I may be an enduro, but I need more strength and a better sprint.

Anyway, @TrackMonkey, all this gets at, figure out what makes sense for both your needs & limiters, and your schedule and other particulars that determine when, how, and how much you train.
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Old 01-16-14, 05:19 AM   #85
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Anyway, @TrackMonkey, all this gets at, figure out what makes sense for both your needs & limiters, and your schedule and other particulars that determine when, how, and how much you train.
Naturally any generalizations about training come with a caveat. But with the little information we have so far from track monkey with CX still a focus and comments about limited training time...

Given the weather in your area (I assume no indoor track and racing in winter in Minnesota?) and distain of colonoscopies I can see where weights may play a part. Though I'd learn to enjoy colonoscopies if I lived through such harsh winters.

With track monkey having a winter racing season with CX, I am not sure they need to follow the old paradigm of a yearly training cycle with a lengthy base period, build etc since they would be racing summer and winter. Then especially so for those racers living in milder climes live SoCal or here in Australia. There is no off season for track here as most states have an indoor track (though summer is still the main season with States and Nationals) with racing 2-3 days a week year round. And if you race other cycling events the seasons overlap with summer crits, winter road racing, TT's and recently CX! Therefore I still allow for some lowering of intensity in my plan but there is normally some intensity year round.
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Old 01-16-14, 06:00 AM   #86
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Yup, no indoor track, and no racing in the winter here. There's CX until November, but then the snow sets in. It's not all that unusual to have days or weeks at a time where the weather doesn't get above 0.

Farenheit, not Celsius.
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Old 01-16-14, 06:33 AM   #87
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Just googled 'convert 0 degrees Farenheit to Celcius'...
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Old 01-16-14, 08:37 AM   #88
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It's unpleasant.
Spring road races and crits basically start before the weather gets nice, too.
So the people who are in shape for those races are the ones who have the mental capacity (or lack thereof) for 4-hour trainer rides.
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Old 01-16-14, 10:28 AM   #89
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So the people who are in shape for those races are the ones who have the mental capacity (or lack thereof) for 4-hour trainer rides.
whoah!
I do 2hr +/- trainer rides a couple times a week… but 4hr is long!
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Old 01-17-14, 07:32 PM   #90
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whoah!
I do 2hr +/- trainer rides a couple times a week… but 4hr is long!
The key is to have put in mid 20 hour weeks as a swimmer staring at the bottom of the pool. Makes riding rollers a snap mentally in comparison.
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Old 01-17-14, 08:08 PM   #91
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I do A LOT of rides while watching Netflix
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 01-17-14, 09:35 PM   #92
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I don't want to speak for Carleton…

but what i think he is saying is:
the program you outlined above is not optimized for getting the biggest strength gains from the least amount of gym time.. which is basically the biggest priority for strength dependent athletes..

also- there is pretty strong evidence that "Hypertrophy" work adds very little to strength work that follows it.. by its nature- hypertrophy makes you big, which is not conducive to losing weight or riding a bike fast.. Most of the programming that involves a Hypertrophy phase followed by a Strength phase was designed for football players who need to be Big and Strong…
It seems to be working for me, as I'm seeing strength gains almost every visit to the gym. As for the hypertrophy it was necessary because I spent the past 3 months on a caloric deficit, and lost 20 lbs. I don't expect to gain more than 5 lbs back in muscle.

That said, I don't claim to be an expert. I simply follow the guidelines placed upon my by my coach. I'd like to know what would be more ideal for quick strength gains.
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Old 01-17-14, 11:09 PM   #93
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It seems to be working for me, as I'm seeing strength gains almost every visit to the gym. As for the hypertrophy it was necessary because I spent the past 3 months on a caloric deficit, and lost 20 lbs. I don't expect to gain more than 5 lbs back in muscle.

That said, I don't claim to be an expert. I simply follow the guidelines placed upon my by my coach. I'd like to know what would be more ideal for quick strength gains.
I think Quinn is saying that larger muscles via training for hypertrophy does not mean you'll get stronger. In fact, you may wind up with bigger, heavier, and better looking muscles on a hypertrophy program that won't have you as strong as if you had lean muscles from basic strength and power training.

About your programming:

There are just a few inconsistencies like

- Lifting 2x/week while looking for strength gains.
- Doing 1 rep max lifts when you only lift 2x a week.

48 hours is enough for most novice lifters (all of us except those like Quinn) to recover and be ready to lift. So that's pretty much M/W/F or T/Th/Sa. We don't have insight into the rest of your program (bike/trainer work). But, right now, I'd say that is light. Last year I didn't lift at all and did all of my strength and power work on the bike...and came out as strong or stronger than when I lifted regularly.

1-rep-max lifts are used by Intermediate and Advanced (elite) lifters to break through when normal lifting 3x/week and resets aren't working. They really aren't necessary for beginning lifters (myself included).
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 01-17-14, 11:31 PM   #94
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yeh- pretty much all that^^^

heres a good link i found while thinking about this..
http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...ted-equal.html
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Old 01-18-14, 08:23 AM   #95
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I do a 1 rep max maybe once every couple of months just as a benchmark.
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Old 01-18-14, 01:17 PM   #96
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I do a 1 rep max maybe once every couple of months just as a benchmark.
Benchmark for what? Use 5 reps as your benchmark. 1 rep max should not be a benchmark for a novice lifter.

Remember, if your goal is to be a track sprinter, lifting heavy weights is a tool. It's a means to an end. 1 rep max is not why we lift. If you were training to be a powerlifter and compete lifting, then 1 rep max would be important. But for us, it really isn't. Doing 1 rep maxs won't do anything for you that a 5 rep sets won't do for you. So why incur the risk?
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Old 01-18-14, 05:59 PM   #97
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Benchmark for what? Use 5 reps as your benchmark. 1 rep max should not be a benchmark for a novice lifter.

Remember, if your goal is to be a track sprinter, lifting heavy weights is a tool. It's a means to an end. 1 rep max is not why we lift. If you were training to be a powerlifter and compete lifting, then 1 rep max would be important. But for us, it really isn't. Doing 1 rep maxs won't do anything for you that a 5 rep sets won't do for you. So why incur the risk?
I do it for "fun". And my strength is standing starts. My goal this year is to be instrumental as the lead out on team sprints. This will help with that.

I also admit that while I love racing and I expect to be faster this year than my last... I don't eat, sleep, breathe sprinting. I'm not in the Olympics. I'm just a "Masters" sprinter. My goals are to definitely win races. But I do other things, too. Sometimes I even like to golf. And even so, my post was not about 1-Rep max efforts. I just mentioned that I do them on occasion. Most of my post was how I lift twice per week for sprinting. And I know, it's not how you lift. Lots of people have their own opinions about the best way to train.

When it counts (on the track), I believe I'll make a point that there is no one single way to train. Because I plan on winning some races.
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Old 01-18-14, 08:03 PM   #98
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If you were training to be a powerlifter and compete lifting, then 1 rep max would be important.
yeh- i dont even do them for powerlifting training..
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Old 01-18-14, 08:28 PM   #99
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I do it for "fun".
OK. Then that's enough. I thought you were doing them because your program called for them.
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Old 01-21-14, 02:55 AM   #100
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Hi,
I'm new to this track sprinting lark (well, track in general) and was told following a few SQT sessions by the coaches (one ex GB rider, one Masters WC) that I had a 'good turn of speed' and should look to race in the sprints this year. I'll be honest, I freaking love it!
I've recently started lifting, I've been doing the 5x5 Stronglifts program. Still in early days so still at pretty light weights which is good as I broke my back and collar bone in a road race 3 yrs ago and following a lot of (ongoing) physio I'm getting there.
Just bought Starting Strength having heard about it on this thread (great so far!). However, I have no idea whatsoever about fitting training around it. I also have a fair bit of extra padding to lose that I have acquired over the last 3 years.
I'm currently 203lb. I was racing at 188.
Any good tips for a complete novice in all regards?
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