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-   -   2014 Weight Lifting!!!! (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/927942-2014-weight-lifting.html)

carleton 01-21-14 12:20 PM

What is "SQT"?

AlexTaylor 01-21-14 02:51 PM

Apologies! SQT is Structured Quality Training. They have all sorts of properly structured sessions at the tracks here in GB that are coached by British cycling covering all disciplines including derny sessions. They are referred to as SQTs.

carleton 01-21-14 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexTaylor (Post 16429391)
Apologies! SQT is Structured Quality Training. They have all sorts of properly structured sessions at the tracks here in GB that are coached by British cycling covering all disciplines including derny sessions. They are referred to as SQTs.

Nice! Those types of programs are AWESOME! Especially for those who don't want/need a coach. They totally bring the level of racing up for the entire community. I think they are instrumental in growing the culture and level of competition.

queerpunk 01-22-14 10:48 AM

FYI.

http://i.imgur.com/C26WkQK.png

bmontgomery87 01-22-14 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16422565)
yeh- i dont even do them for powerlifting training..


ditto

There is a difference between a heavy single that requires some strain and going for a true max with the possiblity of missing.
I've learned to not go for super heavy weights that I may miss, as it does nothing but screw up recovery and put a mental block on that number for me.

carleton 01-22-14 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16431607)

Can someone explain this to me?

Was he manipulating the weight that he lifted to stay in the rep scheme?

bmontgomery87 01-22-14 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16432000)
Can someone explain this to me?

Was he manipulating the weight that he lifted to stay in the rep scheme?

pic won't show up on my work computer.
i'll take a peak when i get home and try to figure out whats going on

carleton 01-22-14 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 (Post 16432400)
pic won't show up on my work computer.
i'll take a peak when i get home and try to figure out whats going on

Question to Arnold Schwarzenegger on ******:

"What is your opinion of the 5x5 workout?"

Arnold Schwarzenegger wrote:

Quote:

You probably won't like this... When I was gaining strength, I liked to warm up with 10,8,6,4 and then stay at 2 reps for five sets, and then back to 4, then 6, and then use the stripping method and just drop plates and keep doing 4 reps until I couldn't.

bmontgomery87 01-22-14 06:20 PM

As far as I can tell he's saying he was changing the weight and working up, but the part about "then back to 4 and 6" is a little unclear.

My interpretation typed up as a bench workout would be

95x10
135x8
185x6
225x4
255x2 for 5 sets
Then I'm guessing 255x4, 225x6, then you'd just start pulling weight off each set?

Granted arnold used a lot of weight so he probably had the chance to do a lot of drop sets.
I've done them for bench and curls before just using lots of 10's.
So you'd do like 185x8, 165x8, 145x8, 125x8, etc until you have an empty bar or just can't move.


I hope that makes sense and is correct haha

carleton 01-22-14 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 (Post 16432942)
As far as I can tell he's saying he was changing the weight and working up, but the part about "then back to 4 and 6" is a little unclear.

My interpretation typed up as a bench workout would be

95x10
135x8
185x6
225x4
255x2 for 5 sets
Then I'm guessing 255x4, 225x6, then you'd just start pulling weight off each set?

Granted arnold used a lot of weight so he probably had the chance to do a lot of drop sets.
I've done them for bench and curls before just using lots of 10's.
So you'd do like 185x8, 165x8, 145x8, 125x8, etc until you have an empty bar or just can't move.


I hope that makes sense and is correct haha

Thanks!

Would you back down at a certain percentage? Like:

185 x8
80% of (185) x8
60% of (185) x8
40% of (185) x8
20% of (185) x8

or would it just be by feel?

Quinn8it 01-22-14 07:59 PM

A couple of things to remember about Arnold's programming:

Arnold was at his peak physically in the 70's and retired from competition in 1980..

Arnold was a beast- and undoubtedly strong... But he trained for and competed in Bodybuilding.. Not strength events..

carleton 01-22-14 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16433187)
A couple of things to remember about Arnold's programming:

Arnold was at his peak physically in the 70's and retired from competition in 1980..

Arnold was a beast- and undoubtedly strong... But he trained for and competed in Bodybuilding.. Not strength events..

So, Drop Sets are a hypertrophy program?

Quinn8it 01-22-14 08:17 PM

Good question...
From the post he presents it as "strength work".. I know that most of his programming online is massive volume in the 10rep range.. For hypertrophy

My point about his training being from the 70's was that it may not have been the most efficient program... But obviously his work ethic was insane- and he made huge gains in size and strength..

bmontgomery87 01-23-14 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16432965)
Thanks!
Would you back down at a certain percentage? Like:
185 x8
80% of (185) x8
60% of (185) x8
40% of (185) x8
20% of (185) x8
or would it just be by feel?

I personally just did it by feel when doing drop sets. I'd basically back down by 10-20 pounds depending on the lift, because that enabled me to quickly strip a plate off the bar, then get back under it and do another set, because you basically do the shortest rest periods possible when training that way.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16433187)
A couple of things to remember about Arnold's programming:

Arnold was at his peak physically in the 70's and retired from competition in 1980..

Arnold was a beast- and undoubtedly strong... But he trained for and competed in Bodybuilding.. Not strength events..


I agree here. He was a really strong guy, but that wasn't his primary goal. There are more efficient ways of being strong, he wanted to be big.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16433192)
So, Drop Sets are a hypertrophy program?

In the sense described above, the multiple drop sets are definitely geared towards hypertrophy. I wouldn't use it often, but it's fun to end a workout with some curls or pushdowns done in this manner.

A lot of strength programs do utilize some method of stepping back down after your heavy set. Madcow's/Bill Starr 5x5 had a lighter set of squats/bench done for 8 reps one day. When I run 5/3/1 I do a drop set where I go back to my first working set, and repeat it for max reps. And quite a few other programs do something like that.

For strength I think you're better off doing the second option.
If you squat say 365x3-5 for your top set of squats that day. Dropping to 315 and going for 8-10 reps isn't a bad idea. But 8 different drop sets going from 315 down to 185 with no rest wouldn't really have a huge strength benenfit IMO, you'll just hurt like hell for a week.


/longwinded post

VanceMac 02-11-14 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanceMac (Post 16402045)
Lifting 3x/week has made for some nice gains, as it does for every novice. As I'm ramping up intensity on the bike, though, it feels like the overall fatigue is starting to take its toll. I'm really enjoying it, and don't want to cut back, but 2x/week might be the best compromise if I want to get two quality bike workouts in each weekend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trackliche (Post 16402088)
I know exactly what you mean. I followed the SS program for about 5 months (not my first time in the weight room, either), and got to the point where I was only adding 5lbs a week- every 3 workouts. Even with that, I was having some rough times with it. I also was having pretty poor performances on the bike- I think because I was constantly fatigued. I recently cut to 2x/wk in the gym. Since, I have felt way less tired. Fresher both on the bike and in the gym. So far, I've been able to add the 5lbs per workout (10lbs per week). Time will tell how maintainable this is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16405827)
I would say that for anyone who is not a pure sprinter- 2 days of lifting is plenty for most of the season. A block of lifting 3 days a week is great for maximizing strength gains during a period when bike work is not so intense (like during "base") and is likely the best way to get yourself strong before dropping gym days and going into slower gains or strength maintenance.. how long that block lasts could vary- maybe 4-6 weeks or 4-6 months…

I've really come full circle on this (and probably will continue spinning, as the topic torments me daily). I think just in the last month, I've continued to adapt to the point where squat workout doesn't affect the next day's bike workout that much. I still haven't cranked up the intense track workouts, so we'll see how that goes, but right now I'd very much like to continue 3x week. I just enjoy them.

VanceMac 02-16-14 08:44 PM

#offseason


Baby Puke 02-16-14 09:48 PM

Quinn, I'm almost afraid to see you riding this year! Is this new or do you always go this balls-out with the weights in the off-season?

Trackliche 02-16-14 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanceMac (Post 16501508)

Those plates look pretty skinny. You sure they're not five-pounders?

-TC

Quinn8it 02-17-14 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 16501637)
Quinn, I'm almost afraid to see you riding this year! Is this new or do you always go this balls-out with the weights in the off-season?

Yeah Babypuke-
I'm having a good year in the gym- but I don't really have much difference between my off-season and during season gym work. I do pretty much the same program about 50 weeks a year.
Bodyweight is down and squat weight is up- deadlift is actually down this year- but as a percentage of bodyweight it's up...

i end up doing some lifting competitions around this time of the year- and I'll ease off the bike work on a week like this- just as I will ease off the gym a bit on race weeks during the season.

Quinn8it 02-17-14 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trackliche (Post 16501832)
Those plates look pretty skinny. You sure they're not five-pounders?

-TC

good eye TC!
yes- you are right- about 5lbs a plate....

but the collars weigh 200lbs each ;)

Trackliche 02-17-14 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it (Post 16501873)
good eye TC!
yes- you are right- about 5lbs a plate....

but the collars weigh 200lbs each ;)

Touché! lol

-TC

noglider 02-17-14 07:58 PM

I'm willing to have weights at home but no bench. I don't want to join a gym, either, and I won't have a spotter. My wife is too small to spot me. Maybe my daughter could spot me occasionally. What kind of program can I realistically do? Not having a spotter should reduce the amount of weight I can lift safely, right?

And is there a way to do leg presses without equipment?

Sorry my parameters are so tight. Maybe you can talk me into changing my mind.

Quinn8it 02-17-14 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16504378)
I'm willing to have weights at home but no bench. I don't want to join a gym, either............................................................................................

ok- so just to put my response- and likely any other response you will get here into perspective: this is a very focused group here.. between Babypuke, Carleton, bmontgomery87, and myself- you are getting responses from guys who have put in a lot of time with weights training for track sprinting at a very high level. Throw in some more Enduro Types who appear to have "Drunk the Kool Aid" like VanceMac and Queerpunk and most of the insight you will get will be no-nonsense, straightforward, singular focus -How to get really strong for cycling!

that said- it is really hard to execute an effective strength program in your house. the equipment needed is expensive, bulky and -uh- Heavy. You cant train for strength without barloads in the 1.5x bodyweight range. so that means you will need a weight set with a minimum bar load of 225lbs. There is no "home version" of the leg press- so the only option is the Back Squat- which will require at least a set of squat stands and preferably a full cage with safety catches. Deadlifts require heavy bar loads pulled from the floor- and often dropped.. so doing these in the living room is not a great way to go..

I highly recommend joining a gym. most of us here are fans of relatively simple programs executed on a minimum amount of basic equipment- any YMCA or old school gym will have everything you need and will cost you a fraction of what it cost to outfit a home gym.

brawlo 02-17-14 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16504378)
I'm willing to have weights at home but no bench. I don't want to join a gym, either, and I won't have a spotter. My wife is too small to spot me. Maybe my daughter could spot me occasionally. What kind of program can I realistically do? Not having a spotter should reduce the amount of weight I can lift safely, right?

And is there a way to do leg presses without equipment?

Sorry my parameters are so tight. Maybe you can talk me into changing my mind.

If you really want to go with a home style setup and you will be on your own, invest in a power cage style setup. They have the safety catches that Quinn mentions. I have gone down this route because every gym in my town is frequented by meatheads who like to pretend to lift heavy and occupy the few pieces of equipment I need for extended periods while they chat and check their phones. For the price of 1 1/2 yrs gym membership at the time I purchased a brand new Chinese power cage after doing a bit of research to know I wasn't getting plain junk. It came with a bench and 190kg of weights plus the bar. I found the limits of the bar last winter when I bent it a tad, but other than that, it has served me well and saved me a lot of money on gym memberships. A new higher quality bar will not be cheap, but will still see me coming out on top over the gym costs.

I have the privelege of having a large shed to play in and so the room occupied is fine. A nice concrete floor with a couple of heavy rubber gym floor mats to take care of the dropping weights.

Baby Puke 02-17-14 10:24 PM

I'll add to this-- I never have a spotter. In a good squat cage it's not really necessary,though it would be nice. This also helps me keep the weights "realistic" in terms of loading.

You will inevitably be referred to this book and training program:
http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Stren.../dp/0982522738


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