2014 Weight Lifting!!!!
#376
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Very good points, and agree there is no standard solution for anyone.
I think enduro is a misleading term for track racers, as it works in the context of track but not really in cycling. Even an enduro is going to need some pretty good power and strength to survive a miss&out race or win a short scratch race. crit races are considered quite long to the equivalent track race.
That is not to say that weights are the key or only way to win those races, but it definitely targets an area that is used there. Strength translates to power, power to speed, speed to wins, wins to women. Or so the theory goes.
And of course, what are you goals. The Omnium demands a pretty solid balance of abilities.
I like doing weights, and for my build I guess Im an endurance rider (6'4). I feel like I am stronger because of them, but perspective is sometimes hard.
I think enduro is a misleading term for track racers, as it works in the context of track but not really in cycling. Even an enduro is going to need some pretty good power and strength to survive a miss&out race or win a short scratch race. crit races are considered quite long to the equivalent track race.
That is not to say that weights are the key or only way to win those races, but it definitely targets an area that is used there. Strength translates to power, power to speed, speed to wins, wins to women. Or so the theory goes.
And of course, what are you goals. The Omnium demands a pretty solid balance of abilities.
I like doing weights, and for my build I guess Im an endurance rider (6'4). I feel like I am stronger because of them, but perspective is sometimes hard.
#377
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SI Joint Rehab
hey guys-
I've got an issue thats probably weight training related- but affects my cycling, so i thought id look here for some advice.
over the last 2 years I've had low back issues. soreness, stiffness , and medium level pain.
I've always chalked it up to training fatigue, but its slowly progressed over the years. now its pretty bad.
the result of this (in my opinion) is that my deadlift has progressively decreased and hard bike efforts, especially Standing Starts have gotten slower..
I've basically diagnosed myself with an SI Joint problem. Pain appears to be consistent with SI issues, and 2 SI specific stretches i am doing help the issue immediately, but relief doesn't last long..
through my extensive google searching I've found that Reverse Hyper Extensions and GHD seem to be prescribed for Low Back issues and SI Joint problems specifically..
So my issue:
I train at home, and i don't have a Reverse Hyper or GHD.. I do have a Plyo Box that allows me to do a bodyweight RH executed statically, and I've been doing band pull-throughs..
Westside Barbell includes RH's in all their training as rehab, prehab and crucial assistance work for raising deadlift and squat poundage.. but the westside RH is executed with weights and a forward swing at the bottom of the move. The theory is that the swing pumps fluid into the spine and helps regenerate the disc and de-compress the spine... you can only do this move with a $1000+ machine(shipped). RH-2 Rogue Reverse Hyper - Made in the USA
So my question:
has anyone done Westside method and used a proper RH? have you noticed strong regenerative effects that would justify spending $1000 to do this move? or will my static bodyweight RH's, and Band Pull-Throughs get me through this?
im considering adding this GHD if its ever released: Rogue Echo GHD | Rogue Fitness
then i could cover a big range of low back, glute and hamstring work.. but will it get the job done?
thanks!
I've got an issue thats probably weight training related- but affects my cycling, so i thought id look here for some advice.
over the last 2 years I've had low back issues. soreness, stiffness , and medium level pain.
I've always chalked it up to training fatigue, but its slowly progressed over the years. now its pretty bad.
the result of this (in my opinion) is that my deadlift has progressively decreased and hard bike efforts, especially Standing Starts have gotten slower..
I've basically diagnosed myself with an SI Joint problem. Pain appears to be consistent with SI issues, and 2 SI specific stretches i am doing help the issue immediately, but relief doesn't last long..
through my extensive google searching I've found that Reverse Hyper Extensions and GHD seem to be prescribed for Low Back issues and SI Joint problems specifically..
So my issue:
I train at home, and i don't have a Reverse Hyper or GHD.. I do have a Plyo Box that allows me to do a bodyweight RH executed statically, and I've been doing band pull-throughs..
Westside Barbell includes RH's in all their training as rehab, prehab and crucial assistance work for raising deadlift and squat poundage.. but the westside RH is executed with weights and a forward swing at the bottom of the move. The theory is that the swing pumps fluid into the spine and helps regenerate the disc and de-compress the spine... you can only do this move with a $1000+ machine(shipped). RH-2 Rogue Reverse Hyper - Made in the USA
So my question:
has anyone done Westside method and used a proper RH? have you noticed strong regenerative effects that would justify spending $1000 to do this move? or will my static bodyweight RH's, and Band Pull-Throughs get me through this?
im considering adding this GHD if its ever released: Rogue Echo GHD | Rogue Fitness
then i could cover a big range of low back, glute and hamstring work.. but will it get the job done?
thanks!
#378
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What kind of equipment do you have at the house? I assume that you have a rack, but what else. I used to do them kind of like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkAnIpIR-Q4
-I would use a lat pull down maching, and hook my ankles like shown in the video and rest my knees where your butt would typically go it doing lat pull downs. Not perfect, but it got the job done. You can also use a squat rack or BB on the ground to achieve similar results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkAnIpIR-Q4
-I would use a lat pull down maching, and hook my ankles like shown in the video and rest my knees where your butt would typically go it doing lat pull downs. Not perfect, but it got the job done. You can also use a squat rack or BB on the ground to achieve similar results.
#379
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If you have a bench, get your mrs or a training partner to sit on your legs as you hang off the end from your hips and do the RH movement. You might need to increase its height somehow, or add weight to get the desired affect. I use a RH with high reps, good mornings, and stiff leg & Romanian style deadlifts for my lower back/core. Don't neglect the obliques and abs too. Oh and hip thrusts/Glute bridges (weighted or un-weighted) are cool too. Go single legged for more variation.
#380
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#381
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A ghd is a Glute ham developer. If you don't use your hamstrings I.e keep legs straight then it's a reverse hyper aka back extension.
#382
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Reverse Hyper is your torso on a flat surface with your legs raising and lowering.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRy4tObgOM0
#384
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Serious question: did you google/search for any answers before posting? There seem to be simple solutions out there for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRy4tObgOM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRy4tObgOM0
So my question is:
has anyone done Westside method and used a proper RH? have you noticed strong regenerative effects that would justify spending $1000 to do this move? or will my static bodyweight RH's, and Band Pull-Throughs get me through this?
has anyone done Westside method and used a proper RH? have you noticed strong regenerative effects that would justify spending $1000 to do this move? or will my static bodyweight RH's, and Band Pull-Throughs get me through this?
#385
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Yes. Who knows if this will work for your exact issue, surely people on the otherside of the internet don't. Instead of saying maybe and someday, why not just give it a try and see if it will help? You listed obstacles to trying these movements, Owen and myself gave you solutions to these obstacles. Give them a go and see what happens.
#386
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@misterwaterfall I'm really sorry.
im sorta stupid when it comes to lifting weights and riding track bikes and I just didn't know that my questions were so out of line.
Sincere apologies
im sorta stupid when it comes to lifting weights and riding track bikes and I just didn't know that my questions were so out of line.
Sincere apologies
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Sarcasm meter is going pretty strong here but anyway good luck and I hope you get it figured out. Also, there are a ton of other resources for mobility rehab/prehab stuff that if you haven't tried I would look into. After getting hit by a car 18 months ago I had a ton of neck/back issues among other things that PT alone didn't clear up so it's not impossible.
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Sorry, May have been mistaken then, as there are often different names for different exercises. Especially due to me being over the water from you. However they don't look too dissimilar & one exercise isn't the answer to a problem. Neither is spending loads of cash on a machine. Spend your money on a physiotherapist or a scan - after all you've self diagnosed yourself lol.
I also don't think west side + track cycling/training is ideal either. Isn't their method to use chains, bands and safety squat bars with wide stance squats etc? Personally for the vast non powerlifting population I'd suggest a high bar narrow stance squat in a pair of weightlifting shoes along with power cleans and single leg work.
I also don't think west side + track cycling/training is ideal either. Isn't their method to use chains, bands and safety squat bars with wide stance squats etc? Personally for the vast non powerlifting population I'd suggest a high bar narrow stance squat in a pair of weightlifting shoes along with power cleans and single leg work.
#389
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i posted a fairly simple question yesterday:
"has anyone done a Reverse Hyper using a weighted machine, executed with a dynamic swing... and if so, was it beneficial to you?"
i thought that my lengthy post about my back story made it clear that i was not looking for:
*medical advice
*other rehab options
*a way to do hyper extensions without a GHD
*weight programming advice to supplement track training.
i just wanted to know if this mythical assistance exercise had benefitted anyone who had actually done it.
"has anyone done a Reverse Hyper using a weighted machine, executed with a dynamic swing... and if so, was it beneficial to you?"
i thought that my lengthy post about my back story made it clear that i was not looking for:
*medical advice
*other rehab options
*a way to do hyper extensions without a GHD
*weight programming advice to supplement track training.
i just wanted to know if this mythical assistance exercise had benefitted anyone who had actually done it.
#392
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So changing tack completely, (or not at all) how many of you guys have subbed out squats for other activities (leg press, sled squats etc) because of lower back stress, or other reasons? I'm novice to lifting for cycling, though I have done strength conditioning for other sports, and am getting this feeling that cycling, weights and lower back pain are all closely related.
For those that haven't subbed out squats, what do you do to manage any lower back pain you get? I've been stretching, obviously and doing some pressure point release stuff, for you guys is it a case of concrete pills to harden up, or are there any other things you do for the lower back that helps?
q2, how long is a piece of string. My guess is 14.6cm.
For those that haven't subbed out squats, what do you do to manage any lower back pain you get? I've been stretching, obviously and doing some pressure point release stuff, for you guys is it a case of concrete pills to harden up, or are there any other things you do for the lower back that helps?
q2, how long is a piece of string. My guess is 14.6cm.
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some of it might be related to form. I personally do not use squats as a 'full power' exercise, and more of a mobility, balance movement, so I don't push as much as a could, partly to avoid this back pains you mention. I use single leg press a lot though, and after reading the UP!UP!UP! book it sounds like that is how they (the author) uses it too, squats for overall core strength and the press is the bread and butter of leg power.
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i think the answer is core work.. And not just sexy abs, lots of low back training.
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The weight numbers are starting to get real after my major (collarbone sponsored) off-season re-set. Well, "real" is relative, of course. But feels good.
First time in several years that I've let the mileage fall completely off the charts. Not looking forward to cranking the base miles back up. But I have a few more weeks before I have start worrying about that.
First time in several years that I've let the mileage fall completely off the charts. Not looking forward to cranking the base miles back up. But I have a few more weeks before I have start worrying about that.
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Cycling tends to get legs stronger than the core/back so your back is likely to be a limiter on squats until you can get things in balance. I was told doing leg presses before squats can tire the legs out so the squats at lower weights can still stress the legs within the limits of what your back can support. That or just keep the weights at something your back can do and let it get stronger then worry about the legs.
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Hows your bike set up? My back used to ache (not hurt) when i first started cycling for a decent length of time even though id been deadlifting 550lb and squatting 500lb lol.
I think its just about being sensible. If squats hurt, then try a different bar position, different stance or footwear and include some stretching. If they still hurt - sub them for leg presses leg presses are cool but i dont have a leg press machine and i do love squatting (probably cause im actually ok at it).
As for core work, i do 1-2 exercises per session. Lower back, abs and obliques, & rotate them. Deadlifts, and hamstring work should be productive too. However Hamstrings could be the source from the back pain - if theyre tight just ensure you stretch them after a session, or when your watching tv on a night or something.
I think its just about being sensible. If squats hurt, then try a different bar position, different stance or footwear and include some stretching. If they still hurt - sub them for leg presses leg presses are cool but i dont have a leg press machine and i do love squatting (probably cause im actually ok at it).
As for core work, i do 1-2 exercises per session. Lower back, abs and obliques, & rotate them. Deadlifts, and hamstring work should be productive too. However Hamstrings could be the source from the back pain - if theyre tight just ensure you stretch them after a session, or when your watching tv on a night or something.
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Admittedly. I think I should know this but I don't lol!
as far as building power and strength goes they're two different things and you can tell a powerful movement from a slow strength movement pretty easily. However, say if I did a set of 5 deadlifts or squats etc. Reps 1-4 were fairly quick and 'powerful' but 5 was hard and considerably slower. Would rep 5 as a slow rep still be beneficial for building power or should I call it a day after the fairly speedy 4th rep.
Similarly would a 3 rep set of slow heavy reps still build power? After all I would be executing them as quick as I can even though they appear slow.
as far as building power and strength goes they're two different things and you can tell a powerful movement from a slow strength movement pretty easily. However, say if I did a set of 5 deadlifts or squats etc. Reps 1-4 were fairly quick and 'powerful' but 5 was hard and considerably slower. Would rep 5 as a slow rep still be beneficial for building power or should I call it a day after the fairly speedy 4th rep.
Similarly would a 3 rep set of slow heavy reps still build power? After all I would be executing them as quick as I can even though they appear slow.
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Although upper body weight training is not specifically beneficial to track cycling, beyond core strength and possibly back & grip strength for standing starts, I reckon its important to keep a bit of balance between lower and upper body. To this end, can any of the experienced lifters reccomend one or two good compound exercises for the upper body? My gym time is limited to once a week and only ~1h30 at that (life, and all). My focus in that time will stay on lower body, so bang for buck on upper body lifts is what i'm after. Thanks