Owen21

I'd do a push and pull with similar planes of movement per session.

I do: pull ups/dumbbell shoulder press
barbell row/bench press
1 arm row/alternate arm incline dumbbell press
up right row/dips.

4 sets per exercise, and I do 5-10 reps. Superset to save time, or even add a core exercise in between too.

bmontgomery87

Not a track racer, but the main compounds for staying strong/fast/balanced would be:

some variation of the bench press or overhead press
vertical pull (pullups)
horizontal pull (i prefer heavy DB rows)

An hour is plenty of time to get in some upper body volume.

Velocirapture

thanks for the input, folk. sounds good

Quinn8it

Totally disagree with that.
without the ability to oppose the power you are generating with your legs you simply can't put as much of it to the pedals. This is complicated even more by the fact that your hands are not directly in line with your feet, as they are in say a deadlift. So you will need a powerful back in order to make this opposition happen..

This is not just true in Standing Starts and standing jumps but also in seated accelerations- a situation where this may be even more the case due to your hips typically being further away from your hands..

IMHO

Velocirapture

Cool, thanks Quinn - i'm in for as much input as possible. What would you personally recommend as good compound exercises?

Quinn8it

I'd say Owen and Bmontgomery are both on point with their recommendations.

I personally do Bench and Press. Plus a bunch of higher rep bodyweight stuff.

If I was one of those people that was concerned with added bodyweight or the effects of upper body mass on aerodynamics is just stick with bodyweight stuff..

One of my personal faves is Rollouts with an Ab Wheel.. Cheap, highly effective compound move

Velocirapture

Cool, thanks.

Minion1

Hi, just going back a page to the posts on back pain, it appears that asking forums about it online is a great way to get rid of a sore back ... I've had a couple of great weeks in the gym and had very little residual pain after, I've tweaked my squat form a touch and been a bit more mindful of my lower back during the exercises. Thanks all for the advice, its all part of the learning cycle!

carleton

Regarding back issues:

I've been off the bike for about 2 months, but I've been lifting heavy (squats, etc...) and using the rowing machine for general fitness. No complaints.

Last night I setup my track bike in a mag trainer and do a quick 30 minutes just to get my heart rate up a bit because I'd been relatively inactive all day.

Guess what I woke up to? A stiff back with a hint of pain.

gtrob

My guess, based on when I get my back pain (hard workouts while already tired, for example the end of a stage race, or 3 hard days in a row) is I get fatigued and my posture/form starts to suffer and my back is given new stresses to deal with. Think crossfit/forcing last reps and the bad form that results...usually the back that takes the abuse.

If I am fresh going into a workout, I can go all out with little recourse (fwiw Im only 29). If I do this for 3 days in a row, for example during a track camp or race weekend, day 4 I can't stand up anymore and my back is the pain that takes me out. Weights or bike training doesnt matter, fatigue+hard workout=back takes a hit for me.

VanceMac

Bulking experiment was fun and informative. And resulted in many PRs. But I'm drawing the line at digging out my fat clothes from 8 years ago. Time for base miles!

gtrob

Getting strong without gaining weight seems to be a very difficult line.

carleton

Looooool!

Owen21

lool....I'm finding it hard to gain weight, but i am getting stronger! Can only be a good thing, and i think i am scared of getting heavier incase its fat! I like my 9% bodyfat lol.

sgtdirt

one of the only ways to get stronger is to lift heavy. i've been working out 3 to 4 times a week for practically 35 years so i've seen most fads come and go. the constant that i've observed is the 3 main strength exercises: the squat, the dead lift and the bench press. there are many variations of these core moves but nothing beats them for over all strength achievements. try a 3 rep workout for a couple of weeks. heavy as you can for only three reps for 2 or 3 sets. (warm up set doesn't count)

defspace

Last season was my first bit of racing on the track. I absolutely love it. I'm a cat2 on the road, very much an enduro on the track. I raced some of last season as low as 128lbs (5'7") but mostly 133ish. Obviously I'll never be a sprinter. That's fine with me. I live for the miss and out.

I've been in the gym 3x a week for the last month. Really digging it. As weak and light as I was (am) I've seen very quick gains. That's exciting. Been gaining muscle mass and strength. It's very fun to see quick gains like this.

I'll be starting threshold work for the early season road races soon. Do any of you guys have advice about how to balance gym work with threshold work? Is that too much stress? I'd really like to continue to make progress in the weight room, but I know I need to do some FTP work soon.

I've been doing base riding Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat and lifting Tues, Thurs, and Sun.

I worry that if I continue that routine, I'll be too fatigued to make progress in either discipline. Anyone have any thoughts?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

queerpunk

You're gonna want a rest day in there. Feel it out for a couple of weeks and see how it goes.

You might want to drop a day of lifting, or turn it into a much lighter day. (One thing that I've been doing is having a light, medium, and heavy day for lifting. I can make weekly progress on my dead and my squat without killing myself.)

I'd wager that your lifting won't interfere too much with your riding - but your riding (hard - threshold stuff) might interfere with your lifting. if I have weak, tired legs from a long or hard day yesterday, I don't feel good about lifting.

misterwaterfall

Depends on your goals, but it sounds like you are going to keep racing the road correct? Are you planning on doing any RR's, or just crits and circuit type races? I am able to balance my training fairly easily but my long rides are ~3 hours as I don't plan on excelling at races longer than a crit. This is actually one area that my coach has helped me a ton is balancing the weight and bike work to fit my goals instead of just saying that I want to get stronger/faster.

You may have to find what works but I do all of my weight work in the mornings followed by a PM recovery ride which usually lets me get back on the bike next day not feeling so tired and sore.

defspace

Yep, I plan to keep racing on the road. My plan is to do the early season road races (up to ~90mi) which should wrap up in early-mid March. After that I'd like to shift focus to track and criteriums. I'm not sure if I'd benefit from going back to the gym for that or not.

The combo of gym in the AM and recovery in the PM sounds like a solid combo to me!

carleton

I would start or join a conversation over in Road Bike Racing: "The 33"-Road Bike Racing

A lot of those guys mainly race road and dabble in track. They can give you tips on how to balance the training demands as well. It's also a more popular sub-forum.

BTW, I'm not trying to run you off. I want you to stay here and participate, too!

carleton

defspace, you'll find that a road "sprinter" is track "enduro" (even the crit sprinters). But, at the local and regional level, you'll find that basic fitness will carry you a LONG way. If you are CAT2 on the road, you can probably hang with most P12 track racers in terms of legs and lungs. You need time in the saddle on the track to learn the skills to save energy and when (and when not) to attack.

Giacomo 1 

Don't know if it was asked already, but how do you guys feel about doing squats on a machine?

I'm getting up there in age, and while my legs are strong, I'm worried about my knees and back. I have been doing pretty good on machine squats and leg presses with little aggravation to my knees, so I'm not sure I should ruin a good thing and try free weights. I also realize free weights are more effective though.

So what do you guys think?

carleton

The general consensus is that machine or Smith Rack squats are crap and can lead to injury for various reasons one being that it may not train supplementary muscles that are used for balance and whatnot. I've found that they put stress on my knees at an awkward angle.

Freeweight squats using a managable weight and a SLOW progression in adding weight is the most popular suggestion. I also like the 45 degree leg press machine. But the key to proper use is to set your foot position correctly.

Learn to squat properly. It's a manly thing to learn...like learning to ride a motorcycle

carleton

So, I don't want to say "Learn to squat" and not offer to help teach you.

You'll see LOTS of videos and stuff on the web. But the best thing is to find a personal trainer at a GOOD gym and pay him/her $20 for a 20 minute session. It doesn't take long to learn the right form. We all stray from it often, which is why you see guys posting "Form Check" videos that they make of themselves to make sure that they are on target.

Quinn8it

Smith Machine squats are known for doing far more damage to the knees than a properly executed Back Squat