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Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

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Old 06-06-17, 05:20 PM   #651
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I wish the US distributor was better for Koga, that bike is sweet.

Finally feel good where the new bike is now so it's picture time.
First time I have seen someone with a Fibre-lyte Track chainring. Mostly seen them on TT bikes. Does the total aero setup make it harder to swap ?
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Old 06-06-17, 06:45 PM   #652
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I do want to write a full length review at the end of the season because there really isn't a lot said about them either way on the net. So far, Bobby is great to deal with and helped ensure the dinner plates would fit. The layup itself looked good from what I could see prior to building it up. I have about 2mm of clearance between the chainstay and chainring and locked in to the trainer or on the track in a full sprint I can't make them knock. The track ends have a lot of material and are quite long.



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First time I have seen someone with a Fibre-lyte Track chainring. Mostly seen them on TT bikes. Does the total aero setup make it harder to swap ?
It takes more thought than without, but it is not difficult or extra time consuming. I thought they would be more fairing like, instead they are the full thickness of the chainring which is pretty sweet. I opted for the 4mm thick ones with 2x2 twill, they look nice.
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Old 06-13-17, 02:18 AM   #653
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New bar/stem setup. Same bar I use on my road bike, just a narrower width (40 instead of 42). Kinda wish they made it in 38, but 40 feels fine.

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Old 06-19-17, 06:10 PM   #654
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Ring

Nice.

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Old 06-22-17, 04:39 AM   #655
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First season of track racing!


2012 Felt TK2, stock besides the removal of the 3T Sphinx bars
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Old 06-24-17, 07:41 AM   #656
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Needs a new saddle, stem and handlebars but starting to take shape.

Will get a prettier picture once it's done, this was just outside the bike shop after getting a hand removing the old campag BB
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Old 06-24-17, 11:20 AM   #657
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Needs a new saddle, stem and handlebars but starting to take shape.

Will get a prettier picture once it's done, this was just outside the bike shop after getting a hand removing the old campag BB
Looks like a solid setup.

My favorite weekly race wheels were 80mm front/rear that were similar to those you have here.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 06-24-17, 06:29 PM   #658
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Just finished the initial build today. I was conservative with the initial cut of the steerer tube, and the stem is an old take-off that I had laying around from and old road bike. Hoping to take it to the track in the AM if it doesn't rain.

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Old 06-26-17, 06:28 PM   #659
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Been lurking and reading this forum for a while now and just got the last pieces of my bike and figured it was time to share.


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Old 07-09-17, 11:49 PM   #660
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Switched some bits around:

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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 07-10-17, 06:21 AM   #661
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Switched some bits around:

Looks like you are back!
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Old 07-10-17, 10:27 AM   #662
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Looks like you are back!
It's official...I shaved my legs last night.

My life right now:

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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 07-10-17, 04:54 PM   #663
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Carleton, did you ever think about having Mr. Snyder to a dropped top tube for your bike (forward downslope)? Or did you leave it level for aesthetics/packability?

When I was a wee little Junior, I had a custom frame built by a local builder who used to build for Pinarello before he crossed the Atlantic, and he did this for me. 2cm drop from seat lug to the head tube. He said it resulted in stiffer/stronger frames that weren't as likely to fail because of the long lever arm of the seatpost.
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Old 07-10-17, 06:11 PM   #664
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The dropped top tube would make for a less stiff frame actually given materials are the same. Consider the strongest stiffest frames of the cycling world being MTB trials to dirt jump and BMX actually have very very small triangles, and even in the MTB trials world no triangle at all from some makers. The Cinelli Mash was widely condemned as a track option for that very reason
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Old 07-10-17, 08:53 PM   #665
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Carleton, did you ever think about having Mr. Snyder to a dropped top tube for your bike (forward downslope)? Or did you leave it level for aesthetics/packability?

When I was a wee little Junior, I had a custom frame built by a local builder who used to build for Pinarello before he crossed the Atlantic, and he did this for me. 2cm drop from seat lug to the head tube. He said it resulted in stiffer/stronger frames that weren't as likely to fail because of the long lever arm of the seatpost.
No. I hadn't considered that. I used my Tiemeyer, DF3, and LOOK 496 as well as @theblackbullet's Snyder as the basis for my design. But, now that you mention it, the seatpost is a big lever.

That being said, here's Hoy's DF3 (and that seatpost is carbon). All of the DF3s had short head tubes and parallel top tubes also making the long lever:



My DF3:


With the taller top tube, the lever is slightly shorter at least.



I hope that I don't have problems with it. @theblackbullet rode a similarly sized Snyder for a couple of seasons on our bumpy track. I can't recall if anything broke in that area.

If I were to make a v2 of this frame, I'd:

- Switch from 27.2 to a bigger one. Not sure what the most common bigger round seatpost is these days. But whatever that is.
- Use a bigger head tube with an internal headset. This will allow for a bigger down tube and the downtube would have more connection with the bottom bracket, all while using slightly thinner tubing to keep the weight the same. Theoretically making it stiffer for the same weight.
- Experiment with paint (not giving away my idea just yet )
- Improve the dropout design. I haven't had any issues (knock wood). But I want to incorporate titanium. Pick a good tensioner system (for optional reassurance. Never needed or used tensioners with Tiemeyer dropouts.)
- Maybe go from 74 to 75 deg seat tube.
- Keep the other angles.
- Keep the Chris King and Thomson bits.

All of these are relatively minor changes except for the dropouts. Basically, making a serviceable (literally re-weldable), Brick House, No Excuses, sprint bike that can handle 2,500W and ask for more. (I don't make 2,500W, but top sprinters do.)

With custom geometry all for around $1,300 USD

Yeah, it's not aero and it's certainly not sexy. But, I'd sacrifice the marginal aero gains that you get with aero tubes to avoid:
- Slipping seatposts (Serenity, DF4, Old TK1).
- Dipping seatpost toppers (Serenity, Old TK1).
- Mushy, squeeky stems (TK1)
- Propriety stems that you must get from the manufacturer (if they still have them) and not a LBS (TK1, 496)
- Proprietary seatposts that you must get from the manufacturer (if they still have them) and not a LBS (TK1, 496, DF4, BT Edge, Serenity, Fuji ...)
- Slipping dropouts (Serenity, DF3). The DF3 saw 3 different dropout designs.
- Spreading dropouts (DF4).
- Flexy rear triangle (DF3, Planet X)

It's rare that a heavy/strong sprinter that's tough on their bike hasn't encountered at least one of those issues on their $3,000 - $10,000 bike. (Seriously...I literally COULD NOT BUY a seatpost from LOOK USA or LOOK FR for my 496. This blew my mind. I was lucky to call around and a Team USA mechanic had one in the back of a parts bin and sold it to me.)

I know it sounds like I'm so in love with this bike. I'm just happy with it (see my wish list above for v2). I'm just happy to have a reliable bike. It's like having a Mercedes S600, Porsche 911, and BMW M3 and they all had expensive issues all the time and you go to a Honda Accord and it simply runs well, has leather, and regular maintenance is cheap. No, it's not sexy, at all. No one takes pics of this bike as it's hanging from the bike rack in the infield


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The dropped top tube would make for a less stiff frame actually given materials are the same. Consider the strongest stiffest frames of the cycling world being MTB trials to dirt jump and BMX actually have very very small triangles, and even in the MTB trials world no triangle at all from some makers. The Cinelli Mash was widely condemned as a track option for that very reason
Yeah. The Mash was always weird to me. I've never ridden one, but I never liked it. I always thought they were going for that 80s pursuit bike look that was popular for a second on the fixie scene where they would find those bikes and put MTB riser bars on them.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.

Last edited by carleton; 07-10-17 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 07-10-17, 11:04 PM   #666
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I hope that I don't have problems with it. @theblackbullet rode a similarly sized Snyder for a couple of seasons on our bumpy track. I can't recall if anything broke in that area.
No issues with my Snyder, ever. I've put thousands of miles on it between training on the road and racing on the track. It'll be cobbled back together eventually for winter training this fall. Nothing really is quite as smooth as steel out at DLV. I miss the ride.

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Improve the dropout design. I haven't had any issues (knock wood). But I want to incorporate titanium. Pick a good tensioner system (for optional reassurance. Never needed or used tensioners with Tiemeyer dropouts.)
The dropouts bite well on my frame. Granted I don't have quite the maximum power that you have, I've never pulled at wheel in who knows how many standing starts. When I'm using my Zipp 1150 disc on the rear (allen head bolts) I run a tensioner on the drive side for the sole purpose of not stripping out the hub by over tightening it. Wheels using a 15mm nut are a non issue.



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Yeah, it's not aero and it's certainly not sexy. But, I'd sacrifice the marginal aero gains that you get with aero tubes to avoid:
I'd disagree. IMO there's not much sexier than a steel frame with a modern race wheelset. Small tubes never go out of style.
This is essentially the only reason I'm not actively racing the Snyder. ughhh! Searching for marginal gains isn't always fun, but I finally feel like I'm at the point where I've gotta do it.
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Old 07-11-17, 12:41 AM   #667
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- Use a bigger head tube with an internal headset. This will allow for a bigger down tube and the downtube would have more connection with the bottom bracket, all while using slightly thinner tubing to keep the weight the same. Theoretically making it stiffer for the same weight.
I think you're looking in the wrong direction with the weight saving attitude. Is it not a sprint bike? For my own custom Duratec, going from 1.6mm tubing (alloy) to 2mm for added stiffness/strength only came at a penalty of 30g for the frame.

Hydroformed tubes are where it's at I think. The flaring out of the bottom of the down and seat tubes on my bike give a nice chunky interface to the BB that I'm sure adds stiffness, without the expense of big chunky tube profiles. I was really hesitant about going alloy but I'm absolutely blown away by how stiff my bike is and how it handles in comparison to my previous carbon bike. Especially given the sheer size of the thing and associated tube lengths. The only thing I am lacking is the standard round seat tube but I'm happy with the alloy one. It hasn't budged under my fat butt!

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No, it's not sexy, at all. No one takes pics of this bike as it's hanging from the bike rack in the infield
People take pictures of my bike and look, not because it's sexy but because it looks like something out of a freak show!
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Old 07-11-17, 12:46 AM   #668
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This is essentially the only reason I'm not actively racing the Snyder. ughhh! Searching for marginal gains isn't always fun, but I finally feel like I'm at the point where I've gotta do it.
Thanks for the comments and tensioner suggestion!

I'll ask about aero vs round aerodynamics in the Small Questions thread. I don't want to derail over here.

But don't forget this round-tubed (carbon) bike:



Lakatosh won 3rd in the Keirin and Team Sprint at US Elites in 2011 using it...round can't be all bad
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Old 07-12-17, 02:28 PM   #669
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track training bike for road use

Hi all,

The picture here is not one meant for the fixie forum - it's a backup track bike I set up for doing some track training away from the track. It's a BLB (from Scrod) on which I have put brakes that are easy to pull off when I ride the track - It's just a matter of undoing the top tube clips and brakes, putting on a different stem/bar, and adding race wheels. Flip/flop hub with 17 and 14 cogs; 47 chainring here.
I have to do the bulk of my "track training" on a wide traffickless (and safe) road; my "good" track bike is not drilled for brakes, so I got this as a second. A couple of days a week, I ride my 47/17 to that training place, then flip the wheel and get to it in a 47/14.
For those of you not lucky enough to live near a track (such as all you Arizona cyclists, or Divebrian, who mentioned living many hours from the nearest track), what are you using when training for track on the road? Curious what ideas you've come up with. Also added a picture of a keirin pro, Fushimi, who has a dedicated road training bike. Is this common? Advice or warnings appreciated.
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Old 07-16-17, 07:11 PM   #670
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Carleton, did you ever think about having Mr. Snyder to a dropped top tube for your bike (forward downslope)? Or did you leave it level for aesthetics/packability?

When I was a wee little Junior, I had a custom frame built by a local builder who used to build for Pinarello before he crossed the Atlantic, and he did this for me. 2cm drop from seat lug to the head tube. He said it resulted in stiffer/stronger frames that weren't as likely to fail because of the long lever arm of the seatpost.
The main reason this was done on pursuit and TT bikes in the 70's and 80's was because bikes had traditionally used relatively short seatposts and had been sized by seattube length.

Horizontal is best from an aero perspective. The steel track frame I built has a slope but that was mostly for looks and because it worked better with the lug angles
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Old 07-17-17, 05:57 AM   #671
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Not a new bike of mine, but something interesting for my fellow "old" guys: https://www.raleighusa.com/cheetah-replica#

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Old 07-17-17, 08:45 AM   #672
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Not a new bike of mine, but something interesting for my fellow "old" guys: https://www.raleighusa.com/cheetah-replica#
pretty bike! but the pricing is frustrating. Looking at the cost of the components at msrp, it would appear as though they are valuing the frame at over $4k. At this price, I'd just go full custom with a builder of my choice . I would also build with dura-ace instead of the phil wood and likely come out a bit cheaper...
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Old 07-17-17, 09:44 AM   #673
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pretty bike! but the pricing is frustrating. Looking at the cost of the components at msrp, it would appear as though they are valuing the frame at over $4k. At this price, I'd just go full custom with a builder of my choice . I would also build with dura-ace instead of the phil wood and likely come out a bit cheaper...
Agreed.

$6,500 is A LOT for any bike. I bet one of Nelson's actual bikes could be purchased for less than that

The timing of this offering is also interesting. The vintage fixed-gear craze has long gone. Neither hipster nor racers would be drooling over this even at a more accessible price.
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Old 07-17-17, 05:08 PM   #674
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I think it has more to do with Nelson himself and the partnerships he's pursued over the last few years. He does a lot of motivational speaking and PR appearances. His name still has some cache among the people who grew up watching him race, and I think capitalizes on this as much as he can in his new career. For Raleigh it's a win. At most, the frames aren't all that expensive to produce, and only need to be built up as ordered. They'll be making an 800% profit on each frame whenever a Nelson Fan buys one.
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